[SCD] Batterskull

[Rune]

I think the problem is that people put all SFM decks into one basket. I don't expect it to be that good in decks that can't produce a lot of mana (aka nongreen SFM decks), but I imagine it's probably still playable because it adds a lot more value to SFM. On the other hand, it's been excellent the few times I tried it out in green SFM because it's easy to hardcast if it gets stranded in your hand when you have no SFM in play.

Ad Nauseum

Sorry, but comparing these two cards makes no goddamn sense. That's like saying people are stupid for playing JTMS when they could just pay 1 more mana and cast Ad Nauseam instead.

[plus_ten]

lol. I was trying to point out that no other card in legacy actually costs 5, until I realised that AdN is a 5-drop. So, I have to make it that such cards are build-around cards (and AdN is certainly a build-around).

PS. the point I am making is that there is no other card in that can be compared to Batterskull (ie. you are right, it would make no sense), such that 'no other card' in legacy need to depend on another card to work and that in those very rare cases that it does require another card, it is a complete blowout.

EDIT: Oh snap! I mean, don't bring up stompy, those decks play a completely different style to 'normal' deck with their sol lands. Sure, Batterskull can go into stompy, what high-cmc wincon can't?

[Lemnear]

SFM + Batterskull like Tinker, FoW, Ad Nauseam, Natural Order ... this thread goes crazy man! Dicussing cards by their manacost alone is incredible narrow-minded. Next we discuss Yawgmoth's Bargain and Grave Titan with the argument that the titan is stronger because it can beat ... Hilarious!

If we talk about (SFM +) Batterskull we have to fokus on equip and creatures. Is it better than swords or jitte? Doubt that. Is a 5 mana 4/4 lifelink, vigilance (2WW + timewalk for your opponent) better than a 4/5 (5/6) for 1G? Never!

[GGoober]

It's kinda hilarious to Stifle not the SFM but the Batterskull if they ever tutored this up with SFM against a deck playing Stifles. (don't use the argument you can bounce it back and do it again) because that's 5 mana on say something like turn 3, or maybe 5 mana spread over 2 turns, which means 3 turns since the Batterskull has summoning sickness. The card is definitely a strong card for SFM decks, but it still has its inherent tempo-loss/slowness built into it. It is a much more situational equipment (by situation I mean it only works great with SFM, otherwise utterly horrible in the format) than Jitte/SoFI. And in all honesty if your opponent can't deal with Batterskull v.s. can't deal with Jitte, I can still say Jitte rapes more face than Batterskull.

[bruizar]

Just want to add that Rhox War Monk is a card that sees play in legacy.

[SurFitOfTheVine]

I think this card is a trap in Legacy. If your SFM dies, you get an expensive equipment that you probably won't cast. You'd be better of with a Jitte or a Sword imo.

[Rizso]

I think this card is a trap in Legacy. If your SFM dies, you get an expensive equipment that you probably won't cast. You'd be better of with a Jitte or a Sword imo.

At least he wont be drawing it. Its still 1 for 2.

[SpikeyMikey]

Just want to add that Rhox War Monk is a card that sees play in legacy.

RWM costs 3, is only played in decks running Hierarch and GSZ -> Arbor to get it on turn 2, pitches to FoW (very important since most Bant decks are only running ~19 blue spells, without RWM it gets really sketchy) and doesn't rely on you playing SFM. Yes, once on the board, BSkull is better than RWM, but Pit Spawn is better still and Emrakul is better than that. You're going through a lot of work to put a slightly better than mediocre creature on the board.

[CorpT]

So what are the scenarios where you play a SFM and want to get this over Jitte? Because I can't think o many. IMO, the only value it has is in your hand as a surprise. Fetch the Jitte and leave the SFM back. Let them attack and flash a 4/4 Lifelink creature into play. Outside of that.... I can't imagine many scenarios where I would want this over Jitte or SoFaI.

[bruizar]

Some information from Bazaar of Moxen from http://manainfinito.com/articulos/ro...acy-main-event

Translated through Chrome:

The hype of the moment (and Must henceforth) has been the Mental misstep. Yesterday it went on sale came to 10 euros (35 in foil) and have not stopped climbing all day. We must get the playset (although it is clear that prices will be lower here.)

The other MVP of the tournament has been the Batterskull. The ability to lift items that have the new computer is amazing.

That last sentence doesn't make much sense, but I'm curious as to what happened with Batterskull on BoM

EDIT:

Slightly better translation is more along the lines of:

The other MVP of the tournament has been the Batterskull. The possibility to lift games that have the new equipment is amazing.

[The Treefolk Master]

The translation is:

The other MVP of the tournament has been Batterskull. The ability it has to turn around games is incredible.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I'm not sure if I understand this hype. The number of cards that completely turn around the game for five mana is substantial, and I'm fairly certain every color has access to something with more direct impact than a 4/4 lifelinker.

[bruizar]

I'm not sure if I understand this hype. The number of cards that completely turn around the game for five mana is substantial, and I'm fairly certain every color has access to something with more direct impact than a 4/4 lifelinker.

Its not that hard to understand. All of a sudden you have to waste removal on Stoneforge Mystics that you would have used on real creatures in response to Equipping them. The reason why you don't understand it, is because you are still saying Batterskull costs 5 mana. That is like saying Blightsteel Colossus costs 12 mana. Irrelevant, because you will hardly ever pay that mana to play him. This is why I said that Stoneforge Mystic is like Tinker and Natural Order in terms of mechanics (read: not powerlevel). Also, people underestimate how good Living Weapon is.

[Ubiquitous Druid]

I just don't believe the opportunity cost is worth it.

Mainphasing a SFM into the skull and then cheating the skull into play at the end of your opponent's next turn just doesn't seem like an ideal string of plays in the hyper-compact, first three turns of a Legacy match. Taking into account the first SFM will almost never search up the skull combined with the deck-space required to make that the primary engine, I don't see the investment in resources being worth more than just dropping Knight of the Reliquary turn three. The knight and the skull come alive on the same turn, and the Knight has way more upside.

Additionally, when compared to casting a regular, efficient creature, there are more steps in which the SFM+Skull play is susceptible to disruption. Once disrupted, it is significantly more time and mana-intensive to recover when the five-mana equipment gets stuck in your hand.

Overall, I remain unconvinced that Batterskull is worth a maindeck slot or that Stoneforge Mystic should be played as a four-of in legacy. Arguments for a sideboarded Batterskull in a deck only slightly leaning on Stoneforge Mystic might have some merit though.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

So what are the scenarios where you play a SFM and want to get this over Jitte? Because I can't think o many. IMO, the only value it has is in your hand as a surprise. Fetch the Jitte and leave the SFM back. Let them attack and flash a 4/4 Lifelink creature into play. Outside of that.... I can't imagine many scenarios where I would want this over Jitte or SoFaI.

Scenarios:
-- you want a creature instead of an equipment.
-- you already have a Jitte/SoFai out.
-- you need a blocker for nacatls/goblins

So many awkward comparisons in this thread! I start with another one.
SFM and Batterskull is like Trinked mage and Chimeric Mass.

The main problem is:
Pre SFM decks used to run about 3-6 equipments.
Now with SFM some decks decided to run 3 SFM and 3 equipments.
Now we talking about a full playset SFM and at least 4 equipments. So you kinda have to build around that 8 slots... Angel Stompy?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Its not that hard to understand. All of a sudden you have to waste removal on Stoneforge Mystics that you would have used on real creatures in response to Equipping them. The reason why you don't understand it, is because you are still saying Batterskull costs 5 mana. That is like saying Blightsteel Colossus costs 12 mana. Irrelevant, because you will hardly ever pay that mana to play him. This is why I said that Stoneforge Mystic is like Tinker and Natural Order in terms of mechanics (read: not powerlevel). Also, people underestimate how good Living Weapon is.

"Wasting" removal on a Stoneforge Mystic doesn't seem bad to me in this scenario. You're stranding the card he got in their hand. And if you're relying on untapping with Stoneforge Mystic, that just seems bad to me. For what, to get a two mana 4/4 lifelinker? For the hidden costs, that's not much. And if you plan on reusing it, well, we're back into the realm of five mana.

I can imagine a scenario where Batterskull is better than one of the Swords or Jittes, but a scenario isn't what you work from. In what matchup would this be better than SoFI, SoFF, or SoLS?

[Jeff Kruchkow]

In what matchup would this be better than SoFI, SoFF, or SoLS?

The first one that comes to mind is any control deck. Even though they can counter it, bewteen SFM and Vial dropping free stuff, the game going long naturally and the fact that Batterskull blanks removal when you have mana to use it, it is most certainly useful as a 1-of at least in the SB

[ivanpei]

By the time you get to 5 mana/your opponent gets to 5, the game is already over. This is not standard. The critical turns are 2/3 not 5/6. I'd rather have a SOFI drawing me cards and shocking everyturn by then. A late batterskull won't save you against control. If you are boucing and replaying batterskulls, the game is already over and you've lost. There are more mana efficient things to do than that. People can just kill batterskull/counter it.

Having said that, it's sick in standard. I tried it in Dstompy and White stompy. Still gets a no from me. Never ever came down in time to matter. SFM never looked for it. Most of the time, jitte is just better. I want to be nuking dudes everyturn. Folk/gobs don't care about you gaining 4 life a turn when they can alpha for like 10-16 damage.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Inclined to agree. The card seems really good in Standard, but so was Bituminous Blast and Aeon Chronicler.

And most of the late-game cards you bring in against control for the same cost have ways of, you know, not getting countered. This doesn't. Counterspell and Force are more important worries in the late game against control than Disenchant. If you're playing white anyway, Reveillark or Decree of Justice or Armageddon all seem much scarier against control decks, and they're not really being played.

[Mr. Safety]

Batterskull seems weak...I mean, you still have cards like Exalted Angel available to you. Hell, Serra Angel used to be the finisher of choice for Weissman-style decks, and that was a 4/4 vigilance flyer for 5 mana. It has been relegated to uncommon status, and used to be a top rare. This should tell you the power level of Batterskull. For my mana, I'd play Exalted Angel.