Simian Spirit Guide would be one of the worst things to replace them with since you run Ad Nauseum. I think Shocklands might be the next best option if you're still running fetchlands. A split of Darkslick Shores and Blackcleave Cliffs might be workable if you don't have the fetches either. Either way, its still not going to be as solid as the optimized manabase in the standard list.Originally Posted by 1maarten1
Spirit guides left the list with the printing of Adn. (Though I'm testing some right now with the etw plan. Living on the edge)
Like Whippoorwill said. Old TES lists ran only 10 lands, including 2 forbidden orchard/undiscovered paradise/tarnished citadel, spirit guides, but that deck really was a diffent animal. (flashbacks of "plunge into darkness, entwine, resolves?" -> opponent:)
The current incarnation of the deck really wants his duals though, so I still suggest you try to get hold of at least 1 sea/1 volcanic.
PS: Judging by your name, are you Belgian/Dutch? PM me, I have enough spare duals to borrow if you attend the same tournaments as I do.
Thanks for the replies! Im going to try to get a hold on 1 sea and 1 volc as soon as my paycheck arrives :P Ill try it like this:Spirit guides left the list with the printing of Adn. (Though I'm testing some right now with the etw plan. Living on the edge
Like Whippoorwill said. Old TES lists ran only 10 lands, including 2 forbidden orchard/undiscovered paradise/tarnished citadel, spirit guides, but that deck really was a diffent animal. (flashbacks of "plunge into darkness, entwine, resolves?" opponent:
The current incarnation of the deck, really wants his duals though, so I still suggest you try to get hold of at least 1 sea/1 volcanic.
PS: Judging by your name, are you Belgian/Dutch? PM me, I have enough spare duals to borrow if you attend the same tournaments as I do.
4 city
4 mine
1 sea
1 volc
3 fetch (2 misty, 1 tarn or smthn)
I think ill just play 4 silence instead of the 3-1 split because its way cheaper :P, once possible I will get chants ofc since those are better.
Yeah im Dutch ;)! But I rarely go to tournaments in the south :P I usually near Rotterdam/Utrecht/Amsterdam. Anyway thanks for the offer!
Just realize it won't be as good as having the extra fetch and dual. Way to realize that the deck is dependent on duals though, most people build shitty mana bases with this deck, and then complain.
With the Silence split, not a huge deal, but you should correct it sometime. Get the last Sea first though.
If you're a smart trader, you can get nm duals at the price before the scg buylist screwed things up.
Got my nm seas for 85 when they were "120"
Played in a GPT with TES (4 swarm, seize, grip in flex), ended 3-3. Beat NOBant, Deedstill, lost to folk, beat AnT, lost to folk again (Ad naus fizzle from 16 game 2, and stone cold nuts game 3) and lost to Lands to put me out of contention in the last round.
Against lands g1, I mulled to five and had to tendrils around zuran orb putting him at 40, without beginning the turn with anything in play. G2, he t1's Cannonist, e tutors for chalice @2 and wins from there. G3, mull again to 5, can't beat cannonist, then chalice @1 and EE @0, then mindbreak trap. Michael Caffrey brought in 12 cards. I need a better plan than E truth getting there. From what I gather he brought in:
1 Arcane Lab
3 Mindbreak trap
4 Dark Confidant
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Tormod's crypt
1 Null rod
Normally I'd just shrug it off as being a crazy guy with a vendetta, but he is my friend whom I travel to tournaments with, and usually does well enough that I can expect to play against him in the course of a smaller tournament of ~30 people. Any help?
Bring in your bounce, beat him before he can do anything, etc. Meltdown in the board could act as a helpful wish target if he ends up with multiple artifacts, you could run Hurkyl's, other bounce and knowing how to play the deck should easily take care of the rest.
It's possible you just got unlucky (double mull to 5...) or need to practice more. TES shouldn't be losing to lands.
Alright guys, I should be able to post a bit more from now on.
I've read through the last few pages of the thread, a lot of your questions can be answered by my opening post. Try reading it.
I've seen the excuse that I don't update it a lot. Believe it or not, the deck hasn't changed much or hasn't needed to change within the last few months. It's a fairly solid, set-in-stone, deck.
Regardless, expect to see me around a bit more telling you to just read the opening post.
I beat him game one, that isn't my issue. My issue is when he brings in 12 cards to supplement his wasteland plan, each of which is tuturable with his 4 enlightened tutors. I will never have the mana in my mainphase to cast Meltdown. My bounce is E truth, which is awkward when he has port and wastelock, and I really feel i'd need chain of vapor.
I agree I should not be losing to lands, but I can only mulligan so aggressively for a quick hand before I have to accept something.
@Bryant: This deck is still really solid, I am just hoping for some insight against what to do against a deck with 4 avenues of attack against this gameplan.
One of the hazards of playing combo is that people HATE losing to combo a LOT and will sometimes oversideboard against us, just so they don't lose to combo. We had one guy at a card shop who played merfolk, and because the metagame was small (~8 people) and no one had tarmogoyfs so no one had zoo, would have 11 sideboard slots for combo. 11. In Merfolk. He hated me out pretty effectively. In the long run, I think this is balanced out by the people and decks who completely give up the combo matchup (like enchantress), but it can be really frustrating on an individual basis.
Rishadan Port is like scuba gear.
--FoulQ
*maniacal laughter* Told you chain wins games.Except when you play in a metagame where everyone thinks it's 2005 and casts cotv, I believe chain is the overall better card. Truth being 2 mana is really really relevant for this deck against taxing counters or wasteland.dec
He only has 3 cards you really want to get rid of before comboing: 1 canonist, 1 lab, 1 null rod. Important, as it doesn't really force you to go for the throat turn 1 (though if it's possible, you guess you know how to count to 10)
You just keep your hand filled, lay down some 0cc. (a blue imprinted chrome mox works wonders here) Build a hand, capable of:
land, chain of vapor eot
he: waste
you: draw, grip of 7, land, protection spell, ritual ritual led, whatever, iggy/adn, kill you.
I understand your frustration of losing to lands, but even a 95-5 matchup means, you'll lose 5 out of 100 games. Last tournament I lost to goblins due to 2 Adn reveals from 18 and 16 killing me, shit happens
Before I read your article, I was really really pissed of with TES lacking basics. Now ive made a list incorporating TES-Wish and AdN mana base before I read your article which is also in your decklist in the article-ANT 2.0. Now, instead of Preordain, ive decided to go with Gitaxian because its like a pseudo discard in the sense that you can see if an opponent has counters and a cantrip on its own. In recent testing I like its synergy with Ponder I have to say.
Great article btw.
Bryant, do you have a plan against these new 16 counterspell Landstill decks? I thought I did with ANT, but apparently somewhere between the 13th and 16th hard counter things start to not look so good going long.
If your response is don't get into the draw bracket, that's acceptable.
I'd also be interested in some ideas, even running 4 swarms in my board, it's still like running into a wall in my testing.
I think the best plan is to play a raw tendrils for 20. If TES can resolve a burning wish, it should be in okay shape since the deck offers virtually no clock. The only risk is that of getting waste locked, but the chrome moxen help a lot there.
EtW can make it game1 , at game2 they have EE so a Tendrils from your hand could work.
Super Bizarros Team.
HUEHUEHUE BRBRBR. VIVA DILMA!!! EM NOME DE JESUS CRISTO!
Sometimes you can't win them all people. It's really hand based, board in 4 Swarms, draw Tendrils or Empty the Warrens, Burning Wish for them. There's plenty of time to do these things against Landstill.
You just can't expect to beat a deck with 16 counters every game by sideboarding. It's going to be rough, but that's a part of playing combo.
Burning Wishing for Tendrils has been good for me. If that resolves, you win, just like 30 turns later...
To be fair, that is with TNT, not TES. I think Basics go a long way in fighting the long game against this deck.
Yeah, that Uw list popping up is pushing me further away from playing ANT/TES Ari. If the format slows down, I'm more inclined to play a combo deck with FoW. maybe some form of DD deck.
My initial idea with these decks was to add abeyance over silence/chant, getting around top and around misstep. that idea might be just as bad though because of snare.
what about against team america? * didn't see anything on the 1st page*
I played a few friendly games, running the current sideboard that's on the OP but might try a 1/1 split of chain and echoing.
any tips?
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