[Deck] The Rock

[sdematt]

I agree and disagree with arbor. A) It's another Bojuka Bog. If it's my only green source in my opener, I still keep, just I get screwed. I can't tap for Tarmogoyf that turn, and it asks for a Wasteland. That is both a good and a bad thing. To be perfectly fair, most of the time I'm using GSZ for more Goyf, or going for a Goyf to get around Spell Snare or something like that. B) I see the acceleration argument, but again, turn 1 I'd rather be dishing out the pain in the form of Thoughtseize. But, I'll give it a try.

Anyways, I placed second at the local Legacy, losing only to the 43-Lands nutdraw.

My list was:

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
4 Scrubland
3 Bayou

4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Qasali Pridemage

2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Sensei's Top
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

Board:
3 E. Tutor
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Runed Halo
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Cannonist
2 E. Plague
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb


Round 1: Gavin with R/G Goblins

I figure Gavin's playing Affinity, so I keep a nice hand of Swords, Bob, Top, Goyf, etc. It's a sweet hand. When he pulls off turn one Lackey, I roll my eyes. I fetch for a basic Plains and Swords during his attack. I get going, but he Stingscourgers me twice against A Knight and a Goyf. Ugh. He puts huge power on board and drops Gang-Bang commander off of another Lackey. Goyf trades with an Instigator and a 2/2, and he has tons of pressure on board. I Deed on 1, leaving my Goyfs and Knights and leaving him with a singleton Siege Gang. He stays back and I put the pressure on with a Jitte. Jitte absolutely buries him, and I drop Goyf #2 to seal it.

Sideboard plan for Goblins on previous page.

I keep a very loose hand of Needle, Confidant, basic Swamp, basic Plains, Waste, Jitte, Knight. "Loose." If he dropped Lackey, I was basically done. He instead drops a Vial off of a Taiga. I go Swamp into Needle, he cringed. He drops a basic and passes. I drop a Wasteland and he stays on one mana for a few turns while I get Confidant up. Confidant swings with Jitte to build up 4 counters. He drops Matron for Warchief, but I'm blowing him out with Jitte. I eventually drop 2 Knights at 7/7 a piece and he dies in a fire. Take that.

2-0

Round 2: Adam with 43 Lands

Adam was borrowing my friend's pimped 43-Lands deck, and I knew this matchup was awkward. Game 1 he Ghost Quarter locks me, but I attempt to get there. If I had drawn a Wasteland at any point, I would have won. Boo.

Boarding for 43 Lands

Game 2 I got a great hand and RFG'd his graveyard twice, but he had backup Loams EVERY time. Ugh. He grinds me out, I scoop to grab dinner.

2-2 in games
1-1 in Rounds

Round 3: Enrico with NLT

Enrico is an excellent Canadian Thresh/NLT player, and I wasn't looking forward to playing him. We ground games like this at the prerelease a week before, and it was even. This time, I got Wastelanded, Stifled, but I came back. I ran out massive amount of discard and cracked fetched when he was tapped out or on his upkeep. He Mental Misstepped me once, but it didn't matter. I Vindicate and Waste away 2/3 of his lands, and he sits on two Geese. I run out a 4/5 Goyf, and trade one for a Goose and a Bolt. I run out another Goyf, then GSZ for another. I start swinging, he can't get any mana. I end that game at a comfortable 10 life.

Boarding for NLT (what I did)

+2 Deed
-1 Hymn
-1 I can't remember :)

I overwhelm him with discard, then drop Knights 1-3. At 5/5, he couldn't keep up. Discard wrecked him so hard, and he couldn't recover.

4-2 games
2-1 in Rounds

Round 4: J.I. with UWr CounterTop Thopter

The matchup I was dreading, since it was a mix of the Gerry T list with the Thopter Combo. Game 1 I wreck him up with discard, then beat him to death with a Qasali Pridemage and a Dark Confidant. He can't drop any relevant lockpieces, but then lands a Needle and a Moat, spinning his Top to do so. I carefully draw Vindicate and swing for lethal.

Boarding: +13 awesomesauce, -13 dead cards. I don't board in Cannonist or Crypt.

-4 Swords, -4 Hymn, + Deed, Plague, Tutor, Null Rod, Crypt, Needle, etc....

He comments about how many cards I'm boarding in, I obviously note I have too many good cards against him, and that I want to cut lands to fit in all the hate. We laugh, his girlfriend who had patiently waited for him to finish wondered if we were done. I replied with VERY soon :)

I open a hand of Teeg, Thoughtseize,, land, land, Dark Confidant, etc. I snap-keep and immediately take the Counterspell. I land Teeg to shut off his Humility and EE in hand. He tries to play the EE, but I remind him of Teeg. He gets frustrated. I run out Confidant and draw into Goyf, Knight, and a bunch of stuff. He shuffles and I noticed Tarmogoyfs in his deck. So awkward with no removal. It doesn't matter, I end up coming back from a brutal Back-Basics tapout and win the game with huge beatdown.

Afterwards, we talk Thopters and we improve his build, possibly.

I receive $20 for my efforts and then happily pay my entrance fee with my winnings :P

Props: GSZ and Jitte, hot damn. Null Rod would have been SO sick, but in 43 Lands, I wished it was Bog so many times. But, since that deck is expensive, hard to play, and goes to time every round, I don't really care. Props to Dark Confidant for drawing me my good stuffs. Props to basic lands for shutting out my opponents' Wasteland plays.

Slops: Not drawing Wasteland to attack for lethal against a Maze of Ith; going for Subway with the 43 Lands player still on game 1 with 20 minutes left, then coming back to have the next round already started since the opponent scooped. Bastard.

-Matt

[bfeingersh]

I played against Lands in our local event this week and I felt like game 1 was pretty hopeless, while games 2 and 3 were a relative breeze. I was playing sdematt's list with a different board, and I boarded -4 Swords -2 Jitte, +2 Extirpate +1 Bojuka Bog +1 Nihil Spellbomb +1 Tormod's Crypt +1 Pithing Needle.

a) I assume Loam is the first thing to Extirpate, but what's next? Is it build dependent?
b) What's best to needle? In my match I needled Tolaria West and EE, which felt pretty strong but may have just been good in that situation. Maze of Ith seems okay.

I was kind of just flailing around in the dark in that match but managed to come out on top. To state the possibly obvious, Extirpate was great.

[2Rach]

I played against Lands in our local event this week and I felt like game 1 was pretty hopeless, while games 2 and 3 were a relative breeze. I was playing sdematt's list with a different board, and I boarded -4 Swords -2 Jitte, +2 Extirpate +1 Bojuka Bog +1 Nihil Spellbomb +1 Tormod's Crypt +1 Pithing Needle.

a) I assume Loam is the first thing to Extirpate, but what's next? Is it build dependent?
b) What's best to needle? In my match I needled Tolaria West and EE, which felt pretty strong but may have just been good in that situation. Maze of Ith seems okay.

I was kind of just flailing around in the dark in that match but managed to come out on top. To state the possibly obvious, Extirpate was great.

A: Engineered Explosives.
B: Call Explosives(preferably) or Maze of ith(depending on game state). Basically, they have Waste/Port-lock and Explosives/Maze to slow you down until they get a finisher. Watch out for Academy Ruins. Needle's extremely good in this matchup.

Every time I face lands I feel like scooping, not because I'm losing, but because the matchup is so BORING. I'd almost prefer stabbing myself in the arm.


@Matt: Have you tried Runed Halo against that Canadian Thresh deck? Seems great against it. (BTW: NLT and Can Thresh are different decks. NLT being the Lavamancer/Trinket Mage version, it's how I understand it anyway.)

[sdematt]

I only tested against Canadian Pre-board. At the tournament I obviously played both versions.

@ Merfolk

So I ground Merfolk again today for about 5 hours. Preboard, with them having Mental Misstep but no Kira, we were even to favourable. Once I stuck Goyf and/or Knight, I usually won. I usually lost by landscrew or the nuts 4-lord draw. Postboard however, was a different animal. Sower, Submerge, and Kira came in, and out went I'm not totally sure. I boarded according to my previous posts (+2 Deed, + 2 Plague, +3 E. Tutor, +1 Needle; -3 Vindicate, -4 Hymn, -1 Qasali) but it didn't usually go over so well when he found Kira. The fact that I'm tutoring more times using E. Tutor only made Submerge THAT much better, and I found I was getting blown out many times due to surprise buttsex by way of Submerge. I really missed Hymn here, and with no Vindicates, all my Swords, after getting my Maze and Karakas Wastelanded, were essentially dead cards.

My thoughts are as follows. 1) E Plague can be decent if they take the Silvergill/Cursecatcher swarm, but most of the time, I didn't manage to achieve that. So, I question my inclusion of Plague here. 2) Kira is a beating no matter which way you slice it. Waiting for two removal versus just having one is brutal, as most of the time my Maze/Karakas didn't stick too long. 3) Submerge is REALLY good.

I'm thinking the best way to deal with the Kira/Submerge angle of attack would be to leave all the discard in. When they're in hand, I can hit them. In play, it makes it MUCH more difficult. Also, I think I have to cut some Vindicates to accomplish this, so as to not throw my curve into insanity. I think I can replace two Vindicates with two Deeds, and just naturally draw into them. With this, I believe Volrath's Stronghold becomes a better addition.

Second, I can deal with Submerge by way of Gaddock Teeg. They can't remove it once it hits, and it at least gives me SOME combat certainty. As well, it's a bear, and there's nothing wrong with more creatures against a creature deck. I know this isn't much, but also shutting off Force seems alright.

So, I was thinking this as my new way to sideboard against Bertoncini Folk (no Perish): +2 Deed, +2 Teeg; -2 Vindicate, -1 Pridemage, -1 Thoughtseize/Hymn.

Thoughts on this?

@ New Gerry T U/W Landstill

Well, I tested against this deck, and it's not a total pile of crap. That deck cycles through so many cards it's ridiculous. 14-15 mainboard counters, along with Standstills, Brainstorms, Shackles, Crucible, and Jace makes it a bit tough. I found my opponent just chained Standstills and buried me with counters, or bounced THEN countered my threats. Discard was good, but didn't mean much after multiple Standstills. Early on, however, it was fine. Suffice to say, it wasn't as easy as I thought.

I lost due to Jace/Shackles, as well as recurring Wasteland or blockers with Crucible. However, this deck is a freakin' pile against Merfolk, as we tested. Islandwalk your Jace? Check. More creatures than you can handle? Check.

As well, Stronghold would be much better as well, as recycling threats is usually good. Even if it doesn't last long, even getting a single return is worth it. I don't think Thrunn is needed though; I'll see. This would be one of the rare matches that I would need him in, and maybe NLT/Canadian. I don't think he's worth a slot, since UBG Landstill can easily Edict him away, and the other matches don't really care.

So, for this matchup, I'm thinking:

+2 Teeg, +1 Needle, +1 Runed Halo, +3 E. Tutor, +1 Null Rod/Crypt (if applicable).
-2 Jitte, -4 Swords, -1 Hymn?

Thoughts?

-Matt

[Elminister]

Hymn is crucial to deck. I would rarely board it out.

Remember, you can play over Submerge by going for non-forest lands if you have a Mox. Just be careful with Deed later, as it can leave you off Green color.

And Landstill is this deck's worst match-up imo.

[Arsenal]

Boarding it out for those times you're on the draw versus Merfolk is reasonable as (a.) they'll have Cursecatcher/Daze online by the time you get Hymn online and (b.) Merfolk (and all tribal decks for that matter) are just a bit too redundant for Hymn to truly matter; Hymn away a Lord and an Island? Cool. Drop another 2 Lords, pass. I can't tell you how many times I've Hymned Merfolk, only for them to shrug and thank me for not playing an actual threat.

[sdematt]

But what actual threat would you play? I'd rather Terror their Cursecatcher on T2 using my Hymn than they do it to my Vindicate on T3.

But, Submerge, with non Mox builds, gets better. Maybe a 1-of Birds would help...

-Matt

[bfeingersh]

I feel like I only take Hymn out against Dredge.

[Arsenal]

But what actual threat would you play? I'd rather Terror their Cursecatcher on T2 using my Hymn than they do it to my Vindicate on T3.

But, Submerge, with non Mox builds, gets better. Maybe a 1-of Birds would help...

-Matt

I'd much rather drop a Confidant/Goyf as my 2cc play than Hymn them. Also, why is Cursecatcher still in their hand when you're casting Hymn on the draw? And even if they led with Vial, you're still behind and Hymn isn't going to resolve through Daze.

EDIT: In my experience, I've found discard to be a poor avenue of attack against tribal strategies as tribal decks are often times incredibly redundant and recovers much, much faster from discard than other aggro-control decks. I want either more removal (Deed, EE, GftT) or more threats versus Merfolk, not discard that is only semi-effective early, and almost 100% dead later on.

[trilobite_hives]

@ New Gerry T U/W Landstill

Well, I tested against this deck, and it's not a total pile of crap. That deck cycles through so many cards it's ridiculous. 14-15 mainboard counters, along with Standstills, Brainstorms, Shackles, Crucible, and Jace makes it a bit tough. I found my opponent just chained Standstills and buried me with counters, or bounced THEN countered my threats. Discard was good, but didn't mean much after multiple Standstills. Early on, however, it was fine. Suffice to say, it wasn't as easy as I thought.

I lost due to Jace/Shackles, as well as recurring Wasteland or blockers with Crucible. However, this deck is a freakin' pile against Merfolk, as we tested. Islandwalk your Jace? Check. More creatures than you can handle? Check.

As well, Stronghold would be much better as well, as recycling threats is usually good. Even if it doesn't last long, even getting a single return is worth it. I don't think Thrunn is needed though; I'll see. This would be one of the rare matches that I would need him in, and maybe NLT/Canadian. I don't think he's worth a slot, since UBG Landstill can easily Edict him away, and the other matches don't really care.

So, for this matchup, I'm thinking:

+2 Teeg, +1 Needle, +1 Runed Halo, +3 E. Tutor, +1 Null Rod/Crypt (if applicable).
-2 Jitte, -4 Swords, -1 Hymn?

Thoughts?

-Matt

Played about 4 non-sideboarded games against this deck last night, and I must say that it's been quite a long time since I've played games that seemed this hopeless. I'm talking downright unwinnable. It seemed like a miracle any time I actually resolved any sort of relevant spell, and counting on a threat to connect if it did somehow manage to resolve was just laughable.

Maybe I just suck, maybe I was getting bad draws, maybe these games were outliers, maybe I should have just stuck with it and moved on to some sideboarded games. But I was playing almost your exact list and the games against this deck were some of the most un-fun, disheartening games of Magic I've played in quite some time.

It really bothers me that 2 of the people in my playgroup have started playing this deck, and I would LOVE to hear a more in depth plan for some way to beat this deck game 1. I think that might start with replacing either 1 or both Jittes in the main with Elspeths. Any other pointers you can give regarding this matchup would be very much greatly appreciated.

[Ozymandias]

Maybe Stronghold MD? It seems like if that card hits they have a hell of a time answering it.

Here is what I am planning to battle with on Sunday:
//Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
//Instants
4 Swords to Plowshares
//Sorceries
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Vindicate
//Enchantments
3 Pernicious Deed
//Planeswalkers
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant.
//Artifacts
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Mox Diamond
//Lands
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland
//Sideboard
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Gaea's Blessing
2 Engineered Plague
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2???

Thoughts:
I don't like Maze of Ith because it needs to take up a spell slot and doesn't actually answer threats in a format filled with Wastes.
I am considering Bojuka Bog in the MD, but it seems horrid to ever draw it.
Deed has been super-solid for me, especially versus Tribal decks, so I went from 1 to 3 pretty quickly.
I would rather maximize my chances of the mox diamond opener and draw a dead one later than actually wait.
I have 2 more SB slots--I would kind of like something against Burn, but I am open to suggestions. Maybe a Wheel of Sun and Moon would also be a good choice.

[CorpT]

Hymn and Thoughtseize can come out more often than you'd think. Definitely agree with Arsenal on this one. Decks that play lots of redundant spells, aka Merfolk type decks, are prime examples. I always want to overload on removal against decks like that and just grind them out of the game.

[oRen]

Hey,

I tested a lot and really like the deck a lot and think it is able to perform really well even in misstep heavy metagames so I started buying the cards.

I got to admit that I like the fact that I do not see a lot of Horizons Canopies in the recent lists. It is nice that you can cycle it in the lategame but the fact that it is a non fetchable GW source which pings you for tapping it for mana sucks IMO.

In the same direction goes my opinion towards Volraths Stronghold. When only having 12 creatures it seems really nice on the paper but finding it without a knight is incredibly random and using an active knight for finding it was never necessary for me.

Also I neither like Deed nor Zenit in this deck. Deed need a lot of setup - mostly 1 hole turn - while not even killing planeswalkers. I got to say that I like EE a lot more because it is by far more versatile while only not being able to blow up manlands which should never be a great problem anyway. Zenit might be alright with adjusted creatures - like in matt's last list - but it do not really see the point in running it because it can not get Dark Confidents which are MVPs to this deck.


"I would rather maximize my chances of the mox diamond opener and draw a dead one later than actually wait."

I totally agree - I never got it why people run only 3 Moxen when you clearly always want to have playable openers with Moxen. Also dead draws in the lategame and card disadvantage are easily compensated by confidant draws and hymns.

Heres my actual list - any thoughts on it would be nice

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [A] Scrubland
2/3 [A] Bayou
0/1 [A] Savannah
1 [A] Plains
1 [A] Forest
1 [A] Swamp
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [LG] Karakas


// Creatures
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [AP] Vindicate
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll

SB: 2 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [TE] Choke
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [WL] Null Rod

SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog


I am pretty fixed on this list and did a lot of testing. I would love to run either 2 path or 2 extirpate in the board but it leaks space.
The only thing I am unsure about is whether to run 3 bayou 0 savanna or 2 bayou 1 savanna. Some times I felt like I need a tutorable GW source but I think 3 bayous should be better.

Thanks!

[sdematt]

There have been times where I've wanted a Savannah, but I'd prefer to go with 3 Bayou.

Zenith lets you tutor, though. Which can be nice, since it "virtually" gives you 6 Tarmogoyfs.

I'm also going to try and run some Thrun. I'll wait to see how Louisville is, but I've bought two Thrunns as of now. My board might look something like this if Landstill is a harsh rape-train:

3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Thrun, the Last Trollolloll
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Pithing Needle
1 Runed Halo
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Null Rod


---

Also, if any of you are in/near DC or New York, if you want to grind some games this week, let me know. I'll be in DC this coming Monday and Tuesday, and New York this Wednesday and Thursday. Hit me up with a PM asap so I can plan the driving route :)

-Matt

[novatinhu]

Good morning everyone, today I am here to say I got my invite to Brazilian Legacy Qualifier, yesterday I played the tournament and I do not regret having chosen this deck.


Decklist

Lands
4 Wasteland
3 Scrubland
3 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Volrath\'s Stronghold
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest

Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Confidant

Spells
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
3 Vindicate
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Mox Diamond
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
SB: 1 Pernicious Deed
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 1 Doom Blade (used to be an Go for the Throat, but i trade for Blade because i dont have any Black creature to worry and I have Artifacts to worry, Affinity and MUD and I needed to dodge Chalice for 1 and Mental Misstep)
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Dueling Grounds
SB: 2 Pithing Needle


Round 1: Goblins
Soft and highly controlled both matches, I did 2-0 fast

Round 2: Monogreen Ramp
Rogue deck and how we imagine it was an easy 2-0 victory

Round 3: Affinity
The Pernicious deed did all the dirty work and led me to win 2-0

Round 4: Elfball
A friend has this deck and was extremely coached against him, so it was a game fácil.2-0

Round 5: ID with another Junk

Top 8: The same Elfball of R4, again controlled the game until the end and bring both. 2-0

Top4: I came across my friend who was also playing Elfball and how he knew it was very hard to beat me, just let me pass.

Top2: with a guaranteed place (first and second place would earn the invite) I met again with another friend who was playing Zoo, I knew it would be an incredibly difficult, and indeed it was, I was in 2nd place with a invite to Brazilian Legacy Qualifier, it will be in November.


Thank you all for reading and hope this can help someone sometime.

[Rainbow Maker]

i think a couple of pages i assumed that new mono u landstill would be a hard matchup. I haven't tested it but i do think it's probably one of the worst matchups ever. this isn't solely due to mm. However there now is a problem between mm snare, force, and counterspell. this is for any deck. you have 8 potential counters to if you
re on the draw. your turn one they can play force or mm. t 2 they can force or snare. this makes this hard on any deck. next next problem is there are only a few key spells they need to counter. one of them being hymn and the others being bob, Goyf, and knight can be easily dealt with between ee, swords and the slew of counterspells. next 12 of those threats can be unsummoned by jace(which they run 4 of) or repealed; which is in essence a time walk. ultim
ately they could just sit behind a shackles or a wasteland/crucible lock. this matchup is ridiculousness hard for us. but it is a great deck in general

[mdc1010]

It's really not that hard. I've been playing against it for over a week now. There are two key plays for us. Grip their crucible ( which is a one of ) and then recur our threats with a stronghold. I've never had a game go past 3 turns once a active stronghold happened. If your not comfortable with that plan, then put Thrull in your side as well. That shores up the match even more so.

[Arsenal]

I've reverted back to the traditional Mox build and actually sorta like it again, although to be fair, I've had some great luck with Mox recently, so that's obviously biasing my opinion.

I also play UGB Jacestill, and playtest often against it, and I can say with confidence that Rock cannot win this matchup pre-board unless we get a godhand, and even then, nothing is guaranteed unless we can protect a threat. With MM allowing Counterspell and Standstill decks to creep back into the format, I don't feel good about the UGB Jacestill matchup pre-board. Post-board, I'm running the E Tutor package with Choke, Pithing Needle, etc and I may add 1/2 Thrun if Landstill starts taking off again.

Anyone else have experience with UGB Jacestill? Tips for game 1?

EDIT: Off-topic, but is there a spoiler tag feature on this forum? When I post decklists, it'd be less clutter if I could just use spoiler tags, that way, if someone actually wants to read the decklist, they can, and threads just won't look like 20 decklists scrolled into a page.

[Rainbow Maker]

well, once they waste your stronghold you are in a bad spot.it's funny i was wondering why they ultimately didn't run a one of academy ruins, i had heard they cut it. well since we are talking post board, they do run 2 crucible, they run needles for stronghold they also have submerge which seems like a near blowout with repeal. Thrun is really hard for them to deal with, i will give you that. That was gerry's list. If we look at the one with energy field... i guess we have vindicate and maybe a pridemage... also most lists are going to have a hard time with back to basics. In my old junk list i ran 5 basics and even i think this would have been a tough match as many of the cards are virtual card advantage. Post board it would get way worse... let's hope these landstill(decks with only counters) don't become popular, otherwise junk lists will have to change.

I have the same thoughts arsenal, he are a slow deck. Our "explosive" starts with mox diamond can be really awkward if they counter whatever you cast. then they just deed your diamond away which isn't good what so ever.

[ForlornEgoist]

Ugh, its been months since I played Rock (been giving Dragon Stompy some love) and after picking it up I totally crapped out on the tournament tonight. Went 1-2-1: Rock- Slivers/UR Control-Zoo.

I may just be rusty after all this time (I know I made multiple SBing mistakes) and I hate to post a decklist without either winning a rather large tourney or offering some new take on the deck but I thought I might get some suggestions to see if mayber there's a ratio I could fix or maybe some other critique that might improve the deck:


4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland
3 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest

2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshare
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Vindicate

3 Mox Diamond
3 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Mother of Runes
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Dark Confidant
1 Terravore
4 Knight of the Reliquary

2 Go for the Throat
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Dueling Grounds
3 Extirpate
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Engineered Plague

Round 1 Monowhite Slivers
Game 1/2: I get stuck on 2 lands with a bunch of 3cc. When I finally get that 3rd land to drop the KotR/Goyf/Terravore in my hand he essentially goes, "Dur, drop 2 Sidewinder Sliver, bash in face with 4 3/4 Slivers." SB: -1 TS -1 Hymn -1 Qasali +3 E. Plague


Round 2 Mirror
Game 1: I keep a hand of Mox, Bayou, Scrub, Sava, KotR, KotR, Terravore. He Inquisitions my Mox, then triple wastes my lands. God thats an amazing feeling. After this he drops his own Goyf/KotR while I'm stuck on 1 dual. SB -1 TS -1 Hymn +2 GftT
Game 2: Pretty much a repeat of Game 1 except it was me mana screwing him over. :3
Game 3: He mulls to 5, I get a T2 Terravore followed by T3 KotR and a T4 Top/Bob. He can't answer this.

Round 3 UR Control
Game 1: He T1 Tarn, pass. I do a T1 Savannah, GSZ->Arbor. He does a T2 Waste, fetches for Volcanic, bolts my Arbor. WOW! I do a T2 Mox->Bayou, pass. T3 land, pass. T3 I attempt to crack a fetch which he Stifles, then I TS which he MM. Seriously? T4 Goyf. T4 land, Top (he MM this) then Mom (Daze's). 'Goyf gets there. SB: -1 TS -1 Hymn -1 Mom +3 Extirpate
Game 2: I TS-> FoW, then resolve a KotR T3. He drops a Goyf/2 Lavamancer and essentially burns me to death while I try and use my Top to dig for answers. He ends up Shocking me for 4 then Bolting ftw.

Round 4 Zoo
Game 1: I know he's Zoo so I do a T1 Bayou, GSZ->Arbor. He fetches a Taiga->Nacatl. I drop a T2 , Top, Bob, pass. He fetches a Plateau, drops a Qasali, swings for 4, no blocks. I use top, stacking Plains/KotR, drop KotR. T3 he drops a Goyf, PtE my KotR, swings for 4, no blocks. I fetch a Bayou, drop Terravore. At his turn he casts Price of Progress. WOW. MD Price and I have 3-4 nonbasics. He then bolts me and I cry. SB: -4 TS -1 Qasali -1 Waste +2 GftT +2 Ground +2 Extirpate
Game 2: I fetch a Swamp, Mox->Savannah, Bob. He T1 fetch->Plateau, pass. Reveal KotR off Bob, drop a Top. He T2 fetch->Taiga, drops a Qasali, pass. Reveal land off Bob, drop a Goyf. He T3 fetch->Taiga, Drops a Nacatl, drops a Null Rod (singleton I found out after). I top in response seeing KotR/KotR/Terravore. Wtf... I draw a card, stacking Top onto deck. From here I essentially Bob myself down to 3 life. I manage to get him to block my Goyf w/Qasali, I kill my own Qasali to kill Null Rod, and he gets 2 KotR's to my 1 KotR/Bob. His KotR are 8/8's to my 6/6. He attacks with both. I block Bob on one, then tutor up a Maze to negate the other. EoT I Extirpate the 1 KotR in his GY (I know he only has 1 left in the deck but it was either that or the Qasali and I decided KotR was harder to deal with; I needed more info in his deck/SB). I then drop a Terravore. He drops a Qasali and passes. I swing for 12 which he decideds to take. Down to 9. He topdecks a Bolt with me at 3 life. He declares, I win, and bolts me. I StP my KotR bumping me up to 9. Apparantly I win. SB: -2 Extirpate +2 Deed
Game 3: We were literally starting off at 5 minutes until the round was over. I was confident neither of us could win (esp. me) but he insists he thinks he can kill me in 5 minutes and 2-3 turns at end-of-round. I open up a hand of Mox, Savannah, Fetch, GSZ, Top, StP, Bob. He mulls to 5. I go T1 fetch->Forest, Mox->Savannah, GSZ->Arbor, Top, pass. He t1 Plateau, pass. I t2 Top@ Upkeep, stacking GSZ. I then draw from Top, drop a land, GSZ->Goyf, pass. He drops a land, Nacatl, pass. I T3 KotR, swing with Goyf. At this point we have 5 turns which he then declares "Yeah, I can't win." Which sucks because I'm pretty sure I could have if I had another 10 minutes.

Overall I don't think I performed too horribly but one thing that I've noticed thats annoying with Rock which you don't see when playing New Horizons is that our deck tends to get mana screwed much more easily than them as they have Hierarchs to fix their mana whereas we rely only on Moxen and tend to get much more damaged with black than they do by blue. I don't know what the hell I was thinking with Extirpate against Zoo. Against UR Control it made sense because I knew his creatures were 4 Goyf/4 Lavamancer/1 Metamorph/1 Revoker and a Jace 2.0 so Extirpating Goyf/Lavamancer removes 1/3 wincons for him which is relevant.

Terravore was an absolute MVP tonight. He can easily rip apart any KotR which is conveinant although if it weren't for the Moxen I wouldn't of been able to hand is GG tonight. I think I might also consider cutting 2 Flats for Windswept Heath like Matt does as most of the time I found myself needing G/W more than the black tonight.

@ 2 Mom. Don't have the other 2 'Goyfs yet. Yeah, I know, I should get the other 2. But at the moment bills unfortunately takes precedence. I plan to get the other 2 when I have the $. Fortunately, GSZ helps offset this somewhat. Not to mention Mom can actually find her uses, particularly in the Mirror.

Anyway, yeah, tips or suggestions would be appreciated. *Sighs* I miss the good ol' days when I could take a Mono-black deck w/Carnophage and Negator and go undefeated at an unknown meta. Damn you, WotC.

Forlorn Egoist