BTW, Phyrexian Metamorph seems like a plausible SB card to compliment the E.Tutor package. It allows us to
1) Legendary rule out opposing creatures, including Progenitus. (even opposing Jitte BTW)
2) Become a copy of an opposing utility creature/artifact to get a beneficial effect for us
3) Clone our own card essential in that match-up (Mother of Runes, Avenger)
I don't think it's even close to the best SB card we have, but I think we have some space there to experiment with a 1-of. The problem is, this card is utility for 3 mana + 2 life, when we usually are looking for pinpointedly on-business stuff for 2 mana or less.
Phyrexian Metamorph's flexibility is amazing, and I'm already 100% set on running at least one copy of it in the sideboard. Being able to deal with Progenitus alone is huge. Its cost is something you have to deal with, of course, but it only goes in against really unfun decks that don't necessarily do much to your life totals initially anyway (Show and Crap, Natural Crap, etc.)
Assuming a meta full of UW landstill and Merfolks like in Orlando, are there SB changes that can help solidify those matchups without diluting the answers too much?
I don't have very much experience with either matchup as these decks haven't been around a lot at the place I play at, but I do think that upping the count of Vial (for Landstill) and Stoneforge Mystic (for both) ought to give them trouble. Phyrexian Revoker is a generally very useful card that should be a house against both of them as well.
Llawan, Cephalid Empress is nice if you expect lots of Merfolk...
You only have 3 brainstorms. Fix this. I've been tinkering with re-building the deck for misstep by trimming one of each cleric and the spell pierces but I've been playing other decks recentlyOriginally Posted by Star|Scream
Jay_Gatz: I did fix the brainstorms. I removed 1 seer in order to get the third sfm in there.
I also put the 4th seer in the sideboard along with a third vial.
Micki: Llawan is a terrible answer in this deck because we are hoping to never reach 4 land. Of course, it does and will happen, but after testing, I would just rather have the sword. I'd rather not cripple our vial either if I don't already have a mystic or avenger out.
In testing, merfolk (even with their MM) cannot handle SOFAI in any capacity, unless they bring in a needle, in which case you can simply tutor for jitte. The sword is now and will always be a part of my U/W Tempo deck. 3 Stoneforge mystics will be also.
So we've generally had a 4-of philosophy for the clerics, seer, avenger, and blue instants. In order to cram misstep into this deck (where it does belong, at least a 3-of, probably 4), and add the 3rd sfm, I (we) need to make 2 cuts.
Do you cut 1 mom and 1 ww, assuming that misstep hurts them anyway, and misstep helps protect your creatures from the same targeted removal that mom would help against? Is wayfarer more important to the deck than a fathom seer? Fathom seer can't be used until at least turn 3. If we are wayfarering, then even later than that. Is 3 enough? We do need the seer to negate islandwalk against LOA, though, but the 4th wayfarer really helps us cheat on land, and is still quite integral.
As far as I'm concerned, the 16 blue instants stay. The avengers stay. The equipment stays, and I believe 17 lands is still the right number. In my head the correct cuts would be -1 mom -1 seer, but I'd really like to hear from others, especially those who have tested it.
Game plan vs. Merfolk:
Fetch Plains, keep them off 3 lords, countering their Vial is huge in the early game. If you can keep opposing Merrow Reejerey from landing, MoM can hold off the defense and Avenger flies to the offense (hopefully with Jitte). If you can successfully bluff a StoP, they will be less eager to launch attacks if it can screw their combat math. Basically, they are the aggro, we are the control in this MU. Vexing Sphinx can be our MVP (+1 or +2 CA because they don't run removal), if you can land a morphed Fathom Seer first, and go 0->2 islands in the following turn to cast the Sphinx. Remember to bounce the islands in opposing combat (supposing they have Islandwalk), and screw them over. Works only once per opponent, though.
Key opposing cards: Aether Vial, Coralhelm Commander, Merrow Reejerey. Also Jitte if they run it (probably SB).
SB: Phyrexian Revoker naming Coralhelm Commander to grant air superiority. 1x secondary equipment in case they P.Needle Jitte, or bring their own Jitte in.
UW landstill tips:
You are the aggro, they are the control. Try to land as many threats early as possible. Vialing in creatures in their EOT (especially Mystic) is how you could win this MU.
SB: SoLS or SoWP (prot. White) could help, but this depends on the opposing build. Having more Jötuns from SB = more power also helps.
I played my first mental misstep build going 4-0 in a local tournament Sunday.
I played against 2 Bant green sun's zenith decks (interestingly enough, tarmogoyf does not synergize with zenith, and both players were stuck with a 3/4 most of the game.)
These games were often decided first turn over a counter war between mother, vial, or hierarch. Late game was simply who could protect their creatures and out race each other the longs. Obviously this deck does the better job of that.
My third match was against storm. I've never played this match up before, but I had a vague idea of what to do. I countered a orim's chant first game, then proceeded to watch him storm up. He got too greedy though, and busted at 4 mana after I dazed his dark ritual. I dazed the rit because he only had one card in his hand, I realized the last card in his hand was probably ad nauseum. Second game, he duressed away an enlightened tutor and I landed a meddling mage, naming burning wish, and proceeded to protect it from there. Three turns later, he made an empty the warrens for 14, but my jitte was active, screwing up his math. He had the ability to kill me, but he didn't know how to play around mother of runes and jitte.
My fourth match was against intuition elves. First game was luck. I drew 3 blockers more than I usually do for his vengivine, allowing me to outrace with angels in the air. Second game was quite interesting. He combos out turn 2, drawing 3 cards off glimpse. I land an ensnaring bridge. He was at three life, but had kill on board if he could attack. I had a fetch, a white card (think plow), and a brainstorm in hand. The turn before I was about to kill him with an angel, he draws a viridian shaman. I brainstorm into misstep and force of will. I force blocks from him with an equipped jitte 1/1 until I could get three cards in my hand, and finally get there.
I never missed spell pierce over mental misstep, and if anything, made this deck better. I always had trouble with removal on mom first turn against zoo. That is a non-issue now. Also, interesting to note, very few people know how to play against this deck. My hardest game was against a player who knew my exact list inside and out. That seems to be a giant plus when running this deck. Here was my list.
4 strand
4 tundra
3 marsh flats (try to bluff new horizons)
3 wasteland
2 plains
1 island
4 swords to plowshare
4 mental misstep
4 force of will
3 daze
4 brainstorm
2 aether vial
2 jitte
4 mother of runes
4 weathered wayfarer
3 fathom seer
4 serra avenger
2 stoneforge
2 jotun grunt
1 vexing sphinx
sideboard
2 enlightened tutor
1 wheel of sun and moon
1 tormod's crypt
1 ensnaring bridge
1 aura of silence
1 energy flux
1 null rod
3 meddling mage
1 ethersworn cannonist
1 phyrexian revoker
2 burrenton forge-tender
Hello again!
First!
@alrightgame: Congrats on going 4-0!!
I'm taking the following list with some unortodox card choices to a local tournament on Saturday;
4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
2 Plains
1 Island
2 Aether Vial
4 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger
2 Fathom Seer
2 Saprazzan Heir
1 Aven Mimeomancer
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Sideboard
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Meddling Mage
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Aura of Silence
1 Engineered Explosives
I'm trying out the whole SM package and that is of course the reason why I play three Stoneforge Mystics. Since I have two swords MD and two SB I hope to manage with 3 Moms.
The weirdest cardchoices are obviously 2x Saprazzan Heir and 1x Aven Mimeomancer, I suppose that more experienced pilots than me have either already tried these or "discarded" them as too bad to even try but I wanted to test something new.
The single Mimeomancer togeather with the swords makes every creature in the deck to a treath and the amount of "stompy" cards in this list is also the reason why I want to try out Saprazzan Heir. She quite easily becomes a question of taking three damage (+possibly something else) or giving an Ancestral Recall, at least in testing.
If the idea behind my changes from the original build works at all I'll probably try Elspeth instead of Mimeomancer at some point.
If you think that this list stinks, feel free to tell me. I'll probably try it anyhow and I promise to write somekind of report after the tournament. If everything goes wrong we'll all have a laugh, I will have wasted a Saturday and I'll go back the the more original build with Jace in the flex spot. Then there is always the small possibility that this list works...
I sometimes think about trying a "normal" sideboard instead of the tutor package, anybody else sharing these thoughts?
Iirc, Saprazzan Heir has already been discussed a long time ago. Personally, I think it's a worse Fathom Seer in this deck. I don't see much merit in Aven Mimeomancer either, but I might be wrong on that one. I guess you just gotta test it, but as a one-of... I don't know. It's not at Vial's sweet spot for UW Tempo, either.
Are you sure about Jace? I know this deck quite intimately; reaching four mana isn't a necessity if you play your cards to their maximum potential quite often.
Regarding the sideboard - one of ETutor's biggest drawbacks these days is that it's within reach of Mental Missetp - and you usually only tutor up stuff when you really, really need it. Which in turn makes it doubleplusgood if that tutor spell gets countered... not! I'd stick with the tutor board still, at least in a largely unknown meta, because it's so astonishingly flexible and versatile.
These are the core cards in my build;
4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
2 Plains
1 Island
2 Aether Vial
4 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
This adds up to 54 cards, leaving me with 6 spots to play around with. The traditional way to go would of course be 4x Fathom Seer and 2x Jotun Grunt but me being me, I'm always searching for cards/solutions that will put some kind of personal touch to a deck. At the same time all the cards wont be expected and hopefully this will get my opponent a bit unsure of which cards he/she should counter/remove and which not.
Of course the situation might be that as *alrightgame* says, this deck doesn't see that much play right now and even the traditional list might be quite unknown.
All suggestions on which would be the best cards for my 6 flex spots are greatly appreciated.
All in all, even though I'm not really developing the deck anymore, if you ever are cutting Fathom Seers you're doing it wrong.
Oh, not even one? Pretty Please??
Can someone please elaborate why no Stifles are played in the Deck? Is it due to the high creature count? I could imagine 4 Wastes+ 4 Stifles suiting the manadenial plan very well.
On another note, I think running Weathered Wayfarer and not running Fathom Seer is suboptimal. If you cut the Seers, you could as well run a better creature for theslot.than the Wayfarer. In a Deck with 17 Lands and only Daze left to keep the land count in game low (ok you can just keep them in your hand, enjoy your dead cards), I would even rather have Children of Korlis than that in case of misssing Fathom Seers. And I would much, much rather play a stifle in my first turn than a Weathered Wayfarer. Is there something about this guy that I did not consider?
In Vintage UW Fish I played Stormscape Apprentice with much success. Isn't that guy viable for Legacy, too? The tapeffect (at these costs) should not be underestimated in my opinion.
AHH, ok now i got it: You search for Wastelands with your dude, right? That is neat, but is it good enough? Stifle is an immediate Manadenial for the most time, so why would you leave that job to an activated ability of a creature?
Yes, it is ;)
WW is the reason why this deck can get away with playing only 17 lands. It's a repeatable tutor that works like a charm with lands you have to sacrifice (Wasteland and Fetches), and it's actually quite mana-hungry, so that's why keeping mana open for counterspalls (like Stifle) in the early turns isn't really viable in my opinion and experience. Being a creature also makes it OK to see him mid- to lategame, when there's some piece of equipment available, ready to start combat shenanigans. Stifle's mana-denial aspect wouldn't be that important in a deck like UW Tempo, because it's attacking your opponent's mana-base in a more reactive (yet still quite crushing - you run virtual seven wastelands, and four of them tutor the other three!) manner.
Like Colo said, the most important fact about running wayfarer is that it lets you play with a deck with only 17 lands. It's fetchland 8-11 to use in conjunction with brainstorm, and even when you're just pulling fetchlands later on, it's still very real deck thinning. Late game you pull a flooded strand and crack it to pull a plains. Eventually you're drawing nothing but spells. It's funny hearing your opponent say "Draw some lands!!!" when you keep "topdecking" gas.
WW also has really good synergy with Grunt. Grunt keeps putting cards on the bottom and WW gives you a way to shuffle every turn if you need to. Recurring Wastes from the bottom of the deck has helped me win games I had no business being in because I played 7-8 Wastelands in 1 game. This list is really tight because of the creatures that are played and how they work together. Cutting anything from the base 57 or so cards usually means you are doing something wrong or you actually want to play a different deck.
I don't see how you can say this since the deck hasn't been "officially" updated since Misstep came out, and I for one believe each card choice and quantity needs to be discussed in-depth.
In my testing:
Misstep is great (duh.) I want 4.
Mom isn't as strong as before, and given the choice between vial, wayfarer, and her, I will go for vial (on play) and possibly wayfarer on the draw first. Misstep also helps protect against stp/bolt. I think we can safely cut 1 Mother of Runes.
Countering our vial is no longer a negative proposition for other blue decks (misstep). I think I'd like an extra one.
I also believe that adding another mystic speeds up the equipment role of the deck, and is an additional must-counter. With an extra mystic, we have a much easier time getting one past summoning sickness, and therefore....
I believe maindeck sword of fire and ice is better than the 2nd jitte. Most importantly it gets you past Merfolk game 1. It also protects your avenger from sower, jace bounce, bolt, lavamancer. You know, all the cards blue decks play. Merfolk can dismember your creature next turn, but they have a hard time
handling the creature and the sword.
You won't lose BOTH your creatures and equipment with a resolved explosives at 2 as you would with Jitte.
We still have to watch out for Deed, but if they want the sword they (may) have to take out their own knights as well. Team America could care less, however.
So in order to run my suggestions I had to cut one more card. And so far I've been testing Fathom Seer as the 3-of. I rarely want to see Seer in my opener. I realize the card advantage and surprise this card provides, but honestly if I'm doing wayfarer shenanigans and trying to get my equipment going, I just don't have the resources to pay the 3 until turn 4 or even later. I think that's plenty of time to draw or brainstorm into one. If I'm wrong, please let me know, but please give me a good reason that we need to definitely run 4 other than "it draws 2 cards,"
Last edited by Star|Scream; 06-01-2011 at 10:02 AM.
I use to play this deck before the NPH and was wondering what type of list people are testing and what cards are being considered the most
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