As a side note i think it would be awesome to have some knowledge of the mirrors between the two variations on the deck.
Eh, I'm sticking with the old list for now. The article was interesting. I do agree that once you had Dark Confidant that Team America becomes what others would call "Dark Thresh."
On the Bob discussion, before I was packing Bob and had a list similar to the one below.
Creatures:
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Dark Confidant
Disruption:
4x Hymn To Tourach
4x Thoughtseize/Duress
Counter:
4x Force of Will
4x Counterspell
3x Daze/Spell Pierce
2x Misdirection
2x Spell Snare
Cantrips:
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Preordain
The thing about it is that even with the printing of MM the most crucial turn for that list would be T1 since whatever they play you'll need to work around it somehow (Vial, Top, Lackey, Nacatl) then suddenly it becomes a race, Bob is excellent in winning that race but I ended up always racing my opponent with that list every game whenever a T1 card is played by the opponent. Though if you can stop say T1 - T2, the games already won as long as Bob is able to stick. But what I liked about this list was the sheer raw power the card is able to bring, and if the opponent can't handle such onslaught it's already game set.
For those that have tested the 4 Goyf / 4 Bob / 2 Stalker combination, how does it bode for you? Does packing Stalker, FOW & Snuff Out end up back breaking, especially with the fetches, MM and Fow?
Are you guys keeping sideboard slots for Landstill or is it not popular enough?
Here's my thoughts on that:
Jace, the Mind Sculptor: Mana intensive but good against other decks too. Can be played as a 2-of in the maindeck to make space in the board for other things. Stops their Jaces and is a threat they will have trouble answering.
Thrun, the Last Troll: Mana intensive also. Not good against anything else. Seems that most Landstill decks have almost no way of dealing with him. Maybe I'm overrating the impact of this card against them? If it's an auto-win, should probably be run.
Bitterblossom: Hard to deal with for them, but must be played early to have an impact. Doesn't seem good against most other decks. Not sure I'd run that if I had Dark Confidant though.
Duress: Good against them, and good against combo and other control decks too. Seems worth it to run extra discard in the sideboard, especially if you don't run Thoughtseize in the MD.
Phyrexian Revoker: Deals with Jace and can beatdown too. They can repeal him or kill him easily though. Seems decent against some other decks too. A popular SB card in the top8 SCG decks.
Creeping Tar Pit: Seems like it would be good under a Standstill. They can't deal with it other than Wasteland, and you ca waste their wastes before playing it. Not sure it's worth a SB slot as they can still deal with it and it's not good with anything else.
Maelstrom Pulse: Can kill Jace and any random cards they might have to annoy you. Is also good against most other decks. Should be ran maindeck instead of Go for the Throat as a 2 of?
So the possibilities are to run Pulse / Duress / Revoker / MD Jace and hope that's enough to even the playing field, or run Thrun that's not good against anything else. Or ignore the matchup and play the best cards against the rest of the field. If I run Thrun in the SB, it's at the expense of cards like Null Rod or Crypt/Nihil Spellbomb. If I ran one of these narrow cards as a 2-of, which should it be? Or none of it and go with only general answers in the SB + keep Llawan for Merfolk and Progenitus.
I don't think you'd really get a chance to resolve any of those cards other than Thrun against that deck if they play it right.
Thrun is definately a possibility, i hate the guy as he is useless in nearly all other matchups, but if landstill is the big problem then he certainly should deal with it. Life from the loam is also a sweet answer which along with Jace should be your first line of defense
I'm giving Thrun a try, too. I just can't shake how useless he is in other matchups. It seems Jace, if we can resolve him, would be a much better answer.
As long as you can stick him and prevent your opponent from doing the same, you should have the game sealed.
Or am I wrong?
I wanted to share some (small) recent success with TA. I won a box at a local game store with the following:
Creatures:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
Spells:
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Mental Misstep
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Go for the Throat
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Darkblast
Lands:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Submerge
2 Krosan Grip
2 Spell Snare
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Life from the Loam
I'm a believer in a few specific card choices I want to expand on.
Ponder: Since our best play is turn 2 Hymn, I see Ponder as the best means to optimize the chances of turn 2 hymn. Ponder allows us to see up to 4 for a total of about 11-12 cards by second turn.
Vendillion Clique: Playing Dark Confidant slows down the clock so Clique is useful in closing the game out quickly and the evasion is useful as well.
Spell Snare: I boarded in both for every matchup and would play with 3 in the board going forward. Great in the mirror and against random blue decks.
What are good sideaboard cards against Merfolk? I've tried Engineerd Plague, but it was very underwhelming. Now I'm using Pernicious Deed and Phyrexian Revoker, which are fine. What other cards are out there which are suitable for the sideboard to deal with Merfolk mainly, but is flexible to use against other match-ups too (so no Llawan)?
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Llawan also answers Progenitus and blue reanimation targets, so it is not entirely useless against non-merfolk. If you think that might be relevant, Llawan is a fine choice.Originally Posted by Skeggi
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
Check my list awhile back. There seems to be 2 general strategies, Llawan and needles or literal truckloads of removal some of which is the hardcore kind. I have gamed alot with the last one which is quite usefull in a number of other matchups. It is not ( i am guessing) quite as good against merfolk if they have standstill though.
There is another strategy to consider against Merfolk, and perhaps the only real way to pull out game one: Pernicious Deed. IMO this is one of the best reason to play multiple deeds mainboard, because without Stifle, one deed can fry all the fish. If you are playing this strategy, try hard to bait out their counters and save a thoughtseize or inquisition for the turn you play the deed.
Played TA in Providence this weekend, no byes going in. Played out all 15 rounds, and ended in 61st place at 11-4. I'll post a more in depth report and decklist, but two teasers: I was running 0 dark confidants and 4 stifle, and there is a "secret" sideboard tech that will enable you to beat non-basic hate. Major props to Dan Signorigni for helping with a few last minute tweaks which proved to be useful all two days.
Sweet, looking forward to it.
Played TA this past weekend as well. Very intrigued as what you have to share! I was trying to figure out a way to incorporate mana maze and have it be great tech.
Not sure if this means anything, but the more I play this deck the more I'm believing the "classic list" is better than the new more controlling lists.
Link to my report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...669#post554669
Sweet report, digging the sowers;). The seals are also a nice piece of tech, though i am not quite sure how extensively i would board them in. But seems like they have a sort of Deed-like insurance effect when on the battlefield.
Wow, Team America finally makes it into the DTB section! I think this deserves a round of applause to all those who have contributed to this thread, helped with the development, and played the deck in all the various tournaments to top finishes. Unfortunately for us TA players, this also means that anyone meta-gaming is going to be even more likely to take our deck into account when they put together their main/SB, and unfortunately there are multitude of ways to attack our build. Expect to start scooping to more Blood Moons and Price of Progresses in the near future!
The way I see TA, there are two versions: The 'Tempo'/Classic version that runs Stifle and Tombstalkers, and the 'Midrange' version that runs Dark Confidant and drops the stifles for maindeck Jace, a few more lands, and typically some targeted discard. While the two versions play completely differently, there is so much card overlap that I can see why someone would still consider them both "Team America", much in the same way you have 'fast zoo' and 'big zoo'.
The Classic build seems to have a slightly easier time against aggro and combo decks, thanks to a big evasive finisher and stifle. This build is more concerned with closing out early and wants to keep the opponent in the early game for as long as possible. It achieves this by keeping the opponent low on land with Stifle and Wasteland, while disrupting their attempts at playing anything with Hymn to Tourach, Daze, Mental Misstep, and Force of Will. Then a big creature joins the field and races their life total to zero while the disruption continues. Eight card filtering effects (Ponder and Brainstorm) aid in keeping the plan more consistently achieved.
The Midrange build can play very similarly to the classic version, but the absence of stifle, smaller creatures, and slightly higher curve means that this build will enter the mid and late game more frequently. The weakness of the tempo build is that it can often run out of cards by turn 6, whereas Dark Confidant keeps your hand full of action. Some versions also run maindeck Pernicious Deed which can turn a losing board position completely around. Jace often simply wins the game when he hits the table against some decks. I suppose that this version is better against some control matchups, but it seems to have more difficulty against creature decks since Confidant can't fight through a paper bag. Which version you decide to play should depend on your guess of the metagame, and also what type of game that you'd prefer to play.
Anyways, this is just a short overview of the deck for anyone joining this thread in its new DTB forum.
Has anyone ever considered/tried running Juzam Djinn as another creature? Seems like a solid cheap threat that would fit well in TA.
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