Everyone has the secret dream to run a black stax deck... imho the stronger cards that black has to offer to a staker are Braids, Cabal Minion & Nether Void, so theorically we can run 8 Smokestack and 8 Trini effects.. on the other hand we have no mana acceleration ( no Spirit Guide and dark ritual is a dead cards with chalice) and no mass land denial ( armageddon), but with a lot of graveyard recursion ( Nether Spirit , Bloodghast Nether Traitor) that can overrun counters and a strong moon effect ( Contamination )... so letz get started.
// Lands 26 - 6 swamp helped with Twisted abomination for screwing the deck & avoiding mana screw with Urborg. God's is a classic recursion out, phyrexian give us BB and volrath makes bradi's recursion.
6 [ZEN] Swamp
2 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 [BOK] Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
2 [US] Phyrexian Tower
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
2 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
// Creatures 13 - 8 stack effect seems too much, i prefeer 3 legendary braids..maybe we can add 1 more smokest. Bloodghast & Nether are cc2 recursion.
3 [OD] Braids, Cabal Minion
4 [ZEN] Bloodghast
4 [TSP] Nether Traitor
2 [TSB] Twisted Abomination
// Spells 21 - classical stacker configuration, but i would like to insert contamination..
3 [LG] Nether Void
3 [US] Smokestack
4 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
3 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [V10] Mox Diamond
so what u think about?
If you wanted you could go a 8 Stack without nether void/chalice/trinisphere You could play more creatures or cabal therapy. Also where is contaminate?
Twisted abom not very good with nether spirit. I recommend tombstalker to clean out grave and serve as alternate win con.
-rob
This deck needs moar Wasteland. Go -2 God's Eye, -1 Volrath's, -1 Phyrexian Tower, +4 Wasteland. You're already running Crucible, and that lock just gives you free wins against so many different decks.
Lord of the Chalice
Originally Posted by Julian23
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
after some tests i brought to you a new list :D
// Lands
12 [ZEN] Swamp (4a)
2 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 [BOK] Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
// Creatures
3 [OD] Braids, Cabal Minion
4 [ZEN] Bloodghast
4 [TSP] Nether Traitor
// Spells
3 [LG] Nether Void
3 [US] Smokestack
3 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [V10] Mox Diamond
4 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [US] Contamination
Why not wasteland? 'cose we run contamination and we need double specific mana to cast our creature pack...so many swamps there are the best it is.
Why play black staker over the classical staker list? 'cose the staker lockdown isn't definitive: you can exit form a trinisphere lock and tangle wire dies...but Void it's a very huge spell, and contamination is gg unless they ave BoP or Noble Hierach or run monoblack....moreover we run 6 stack and 3 are already charged.
Where Staker is better? staker has ensaring bridge that's a huge temporary lock for many decks, i would run it too. And staker with SsG is faster.
Last edited by TheG; 06-13-2011 at 06:48 AM.
As a Geddon Stax player, I admit that yes, I have been secretly dreaming of Black Stax AKA Blax for quite some time...some of my personal concerns without white:
-no Magus
-no Geddon
-no Prison
These three cards have such awesome synergies with each other and simply alone are all amazing. They in effect complete the Prison aspect of this deck. Granted, Green and Red Stax do not have the prison aspect, but then you must realize that they are not actually prison decks. Green is just stalling to NO-Pro and Red is "stompy" (yes is plays mana denial but nothing vs. aggro like white has).
With that being said, powering out a Braids, Cabal Minion or Nether Void turn 2-3 seems awesome. I would love to see more development for this deck. Please keep posting!
//EDIT: It seems we play can play Original Tabernacle with this version...should definitely be tested.
i know the wonderful world of W (geddon/duch/angel) stax and into the last lines of my previous post i was comparing "blax" ;D with the monobrow version. i played monobrown for a little and i noticed that run very faster then the w stax ( with ESG/SSG + Crystal Vein to maximize 3mana on t1 chance), but it had the lack of a definitive lock as the w does with geddon interactions.
Sometimes Smokestack (the "flag" spell) was a winmore, other times too much slow to rescue me from a difficult situation.
What the B splash does? 1. faster smokestack (read: bradis), 2. Stall play for 3(at least) turns (read: Neither Void) 3. Kills harlequin-manabase decks (read: contamination).... it seems to gather the strategy of 1.monobrown 2. W Stax 3. Demon stompym alias red stax....and this could be a strength rather then a weakness.
However i feel to have judged too soon wastelands.. wastelands/crucibile reiterations under neither void are gorgeous and is like ending the match wile we auto-counter our critters.
but.....what should i cut for wastelands?
This deck will definitely need waste 4 of, it's an auto-include 4 of for any stax build and many other legacy archetypes.
IMO:
-2 Reikai
-2 Swamp
+4 waste
Possibly an additional -2 swamp for +2 Tabernacle. Keep in mind your Urborg makes lands like Tabernacle that much better. Although Tabernacle does not have quite as much synergy without Geddon, it still does so serious damage vs. aggro. I'm psyched about this deck/thread!
Yep, i'll try this land configuration, however shouldn't go under 10 swamps due tocosts.Yes tabernacle it's very good against aggro but it could damage ourself as well 'cose we're running 11 creatures..i don't no, needs some test or maybe is a sb choise.
Wizard is actually loving us
mantains Smokestack, Bradis, TangleWire, Contamination FOR FREE (win by decking)
Smokestack(or wire) + Contagion Clasp + Sundial of the infinite .... problems(trollvoice)!?!?
with this we can recur almost all the deck
So I finally built my version and play tested a bit tonight. I tested vs. BG Deathcloud, MUC, and BR Goblins. I tended to go either 1-2 or 0-2, no sideboards. Here was the initial list I tested:
// Lands (25)
7 [ZEN] Swamp
2 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [ANT] Mishra's Factory
// Creatures (7)
3 [OD] Braids, Cabal Minion
4 [ZEN] Bloodghast
// Spells (28)
4 [LG] Nether Void
3 [US] Smokestack
4 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [V10] Mox Diamond
3 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [US] Contamination
2 [ST] Ensnaring Bridge
My first and strongest impression: Contamination is really bad. I never resolved/attempted to resolve this card once in about 15 or so games. I either felt like I didn't want to play it at all, or if I did want to play it, I didn't have the correct board/cards in hand to set up a recursion loop to feed it. Granted, I'm not playing the 4 nether traitor proposed originally by TheG, but I really don't think this card is strong.
I swapped the 4 contamination for 2 more Ensnaring Bridge and 2 Damnation. I didn't get much of a chance to test that list but it seems like a better option.
Aside from contamination, my other strong impression is that we are no were near as strong vs. aggro as Mono W is. because we lose Magus of the Tabernacle and Ghostly Prison, aggro tends to be able to smash us. Unfortunately an early bridge is usually not "small enough" to fend off tribal/swarm aggro such as Gobs. I suppose we can put in 2-3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.
Has anyone else had a chance to test? How about testing with Sundial of the Infinite?
The only thing that's awkward is the amount you use the word awkward.
I can speak for testing with contamination, it is a beast. Drop it against an empty board against any nonblack deck and watch them sit on their thumbs.
Agreed on Tabernacle. I got Mazes on the way for it too.
The card I'm on the fence about is Ancient Tomb. It does a lot of damage to you by the time you can lock them down, any aggro deck will have a field day.
I thought of Glacial Chasm or Halls of Mist with Maze of Ith. Halls picture is perfect for this deck, but I doubt the card would be any good. I'll test it.
My problem is you just stated two conditions that are not common enough to justify the necessary recursion loop. Yes, if they have an empty board, if they are not playing black, if you have a creature to recur, this card is excellent. If, if, if. We need definites in a prison deck, because frankly there is no plan B.
Ancient tomb is a necessary evil of stax. It lets you accelerate into prison pieces before your opponents can get enough threats to swing over for substantial damage.
Again, one of my biggest impressions is that we need prison/tabernacle effects.
The only thing that's awkward is the amount you use the word awkward.
The abyss is a hot anti dude card. Unfortunately it doesn't pair well with nether void. Once upon a time nether void was a real archetype in vintage. Someone should sift through themanadrain or something for ideas.
I won't disagree with you there. Handling the early onslaught is what this deck needs, and nothing we can put in this deck does it better than Tabernacle. I simply can't afford to pay for them. I have Maze of Ith in the meantime.
True, Contamination will sit in your hand more often than not. I've noticed that. I run three, but I may cut one for Mazes. It's one of the stronger moon effects, however, and the only one that doesn't remove the abilities of Maze/Wasteland/Tabernacle/etc.
Ancient Tomb is a necessary evil. It sucks with contamination in play though, even worse in multiples. I never want to see two of them regardless. I'm cutting it down.
I like the idea of black stax. Maybe the common problem of chalice decks (inconsisteny & bad top decks) can be reduced a little bit by blacks draw spells/tutors...?
maybe: nights whisper/diabolic intent?
cards that I would like to include are bitterblossom and reassembling skeleton (vs. bloodghast) along with smokestack and braids. Skeleton does not require a land drop and can buy time in defense, until the sacrifice lock is established.
I don't really think nether void is necessary and we should focus more on board control.
...also a budget constraint for me...
Which experiences do you have with sideboarding?
I feel that we can't go wrong with 4 of's of defense grid, Tormods Crypt, Plague and Perish?
What I have so far (no idea if its any good)
11 Swamp
4 Ancient Tomp
4 City of Traitors
2 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mox Diamond
4 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Reassembling Skeleton
4 Bitterblossom
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Smokestack
3 Tangle Wire
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Night's Whisper
2 Diabolic Intent
Last edited by catmint; 08-01-2011 at 10:58 AM.
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