[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

[illusivek]

Hello! I'm a semi-new legacy player and was hoping to get some insight on Tempo. Currently I play TNT storm combo (TES + Ant Hybrid), and I won my first legacy tournament with it. After long discussion with one of my friends who knows tons about legacy, I've come to the conclusion that storm might not be the deck for me. I love the complexity and intricacy, but heavily dislike the either awful or awesome match ups, and luck based wins like Poker. Tempo Thresh, with it's 50-50 match ups that you can leverage your play skill with, seems like an excellent choice. I only really have the collection value to build one deck, so the choice is important, and it's not easy for me to just switch decks on a whim due to meta change. The reason I'm considering swapping from storm is due to underlying archetypal consistency, which I feel constitutes me switching decks. Naturally, the deck I choose as a "next" deck will be a long-term decision, and thus must be a tier ~1.5 ish deck that will stay constant. I came to the Source hoping that the experience of all those here who know the format so well would help me. I've been looking at Canadian Threshold recently, and like it, but have been informed by people I've spoken to that it's not really in it's prime anymore, and "Team America" is the new threshold. I don't even know if this is true or not, but hopefully you guys can give me some insight on which deck to pick up. Let's stick with decks that run Force of Will though ;)

[CaBaaL]

my meta infested with stoneforged and friends decks, as also with merfolks (some are coming with goblins for this reason), the big green guys decks (rock,bant,zoo) are 0-1%.
My question is simple is canadian thress a good choise in this meta?
merfolk: everything in burn range+red elem blast
stonforge mystic decks: everything in burn range, stupid win conditions (jace/moat/4 crows),+red elem blast and artifact hate
goblins: misstep+burn for his cretures, stifle for his mana denial(u do not need that much mana any way)

[MC_EM86]

I just dont understand why people are so stubborn. Zoo is not the only deck that can utilize the speed of Wild Nacatl. If you're not thinkin outside the box, your deck will never get faster

So, let's say they Smother your Wild Nacatl, was this bad for you? No, it wasnt! It's a 1 for 1 card exchange, and they spent 1 more mana than you. Yes you'll need to find another creature to win, but your Tarmogoyfs are now safer, and this deck draws cards. Hanni's build plays 13 beaters, so Nacatl is expendable.

Wild Nacatl is faster than Nimble Mongoose. Against Ad Nauseam, High Tide, Show and Tell, Merfolk, or Painter, putting on a quick clock is your #1 concern. Nimble Mongoose attacks for 1, and that's unacceptable. It may feel safer to you to have shroud, but you're far too afraid to lose your 1 drop. Trop into Volcanic sees Nacatl attack for two, and that is fine!

I don't really care if you're all too stubborn to see the light. Most people on these boards are fish anyways...

... and Cats LOVE to eat Fish.

There is no problem with being stubborn. I cant understand why you play Wild Nacatl instead of Nimble Mongoose because Nimble Mongoose is the best creature in this Deck!!!!! Much better than Tarmogoyf. I would like to play 8 if its allowed. Wild Nacatl is hopefully a joke. Wild Nacatl is the worsed case because you kill your Manabase with only 14 blue sources! Its really bad to play Taiga for Wild Nacatl because you always want to have the blue Mana. trop into volcanic and attack with nacatl for 2 is not good. If you dont understand it you´re actually playing the wrong deck. sorry.
And if you loose games against Merfolk, ANT or High Tide you definitely playing the wrong deck because the Match ups are nearly 80%.
If people smother WIld Nacatl its really bad for you, because you only play about 8-9 Creatures. why is Tarmogoyf safer? Dont you expect other Removal? Is your opponent only playing 1 creature removal?
--> No! And Tarmogoyf can be the target by Spells or abilities. You are really the worst canadian player ever because you suggest Wild Nacatl! I cant understand it. Really!

[Cenarius]

There is no problem with being stubborn. I cant understand why you play Wild Nacatl instead of Nimble Mongoose because Nimble Mongoose is the best creature in this Deck!!!!! Much better than Tarmogoyf. I would like to play 8 if its allowed. Wild Nacatl is hopefully a joke. Wild Nacatl is the worsed case because you kill your Manabase with only 14 blue sources! Its really bad to play Taiga for Wild Nacatl because you always want to have the blue Mana. trop into volcanic and attack with nacatl for 2 is not good. If you dont understand it you´re actually playing the wrong deck. sorry.
And if you loose games against Merfolk, ANT or High Tide you definitely playing the wrong deck because the Match ups are nearly 80%.
If people smother WIld Nacatl its really bad for you, because you only play about 8-9 Creatures. why is Tarmogoyf safer? Dont you expect other Removal? Is your opponent only playing 1 creature removal?
--> No! And Tarmogoyf can be the target by Spells or abilities. You are really the worst canadian player ever because you suggest Wild Nacatl! I cant understand it. Really!

You don't have to be that harsh. It's always good to explore other area's of tempo.

Combining two decks (Zoo + Canadian Threshold), however, might not be the best thing to do. Brainstorm is good and all (oh, really?), but having an 4-colour manabase is not that good with a metagame where Wasteland is the most frequently played land-card. It might win a tournament, maybe it already won one, but does that mean it's a good deck? I don't think so.

The actual reason of my posts was saying that a friend and teammate of mine just got another top 4 result with the deck. His matchups were:

Ichorid 1-0
Imperial Painter 2-0
Merfolk 3-0
Dark Tempo Threshold (teammate) ID - 3-0-1 <-- he couldn't win one more match, otherwise he was top 8 also.
BUGlandstill (teammate) - 4-0-1 <--he finally became 9th, due to tiebreakers...
ID into top 8 - 4-0-2

Quarters won (because of Mind Harness)
Semi-final loss against Ichorid

Most notable thing: the deck had no sideboard against dredge.
Another thing: there were 2 Tempo Threshold decks in top 8. One of them was Dark Tempo Threshold, the other one was a Canadian Tempo Threshold list.

I think this, again, proves that this deck is real, vital, and one to be reckoned with.

[Nelis]

And a friend of mine won the tournament with Merfolk.

[CaBaaL]

what SB plan has the deck (canadian thress) against BUG landstil? Pithing needle for deed,jace ? the only weekness of the deck is his manabase (too many colorless lands -wastelands+manlands) so I need agresive mulligan to tempo oriented hand?
Is dark thress better or worst against it ?

[Irenicus]

I think this, again, proves that this deck is real, vital, and one to be reckoned with.

Mind sharing your decklist? I know that you have posted some in the past but what's your current one? Thank you in advance!

[Anarky87]

Quarters won (because of Mind Harness)

What did he play against in the quarterfinals?

[illusivek]

I too would like to see the winning decklist. I'm still working out the details, but this is mine:


4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Fire // Ice
4 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Volcanic Island
4 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
1 Vendilion Clique

[Cthuloo]

what SB plan has the deck (canadian thress) against BUG landstil? Pithing needle for deed,jace ? the only weekness of the deck is his manabase (too many colorless lands -wastelands+manlands) so I need agresive mulligan to tempo oriented hand?
Is dark thress better or worst against it ?

With dark thresh I'm having a pretty good matchup vs BUG landstill, to be honest. The key is to be able to resolve and protect a DC for a few turns, then the advantage you gained should be enough to grab the win. Goyf and mongoose are your weakest cards here, use them to draw out removal and counters. Cliques are very powerful in the matchup, I have them in my board and suggest them to everybody for the control matchups that are very common nowadays. Extirpate can help too: wasting a factory and extirpating nullifies standstill, and if you also manage to counter and extirpate Jace... well, then they have no way to win.

[Bahamuth]

What did he play against in the quarterfinals?

I played against something Bant-ish with 4 GSZ and 4 Hierarch. Those 8 cards make things a lot thougher, especially when his creatures are shit like RWM and KotR.

With dark thresh I'm having a pretty good matchup vs BUG landstill, to be honest. The key is to be able to resolve and protect a DC for a few turns, then the advantage you gained should be enough to grab the win. Goyf and mongoose are your weakest cards here, use them to draw out removal and counters. Cliques are very powerful in the matchup, I have them in my board and suggest them to everybody for the control matchups that are very common nowadays. Extirpate can help too: wasting a factory and extirpating nullifies standstill, and if you also manage to counter and extirpate Jace... well, then they have no way to win.

Mongoose may actually be more important than Confidant in this matchup. BUG Landstill usually only has 4 Deed and 1-2 Edicts to answer Mongoose. You have 4 Stifle as answers to Deed and I think you should leave in 1-2 Demise to, together with Wasteland, get rid of Factory's. Cliques are good if they run Loam, because that cards fucks your strategy up big time returning Factory's all day.

[Cthuloo]

I played against something Bant-ish with 4 GSZ and 4 Hierarch. Those 8 cards make things a lot thougher, especially when his creatures are shit like RWM and KotR.



Mongoose may actually be more important than Confidant in this matchup. BUG Landstill usually only has 4 Deed and 1-2 Edicts to answer Mongoose. You have 4 Stifle as answers to Deed and I think you should leave in 1-2 Demise to, together with Wasteland, get rid of Factory's. Cliques are good if they run Loam, because that cards fucks your strategy up big time returning Factory's all day.

Well, six answers to Mongoose is still quite a few, considering that the average is usually 0-2. What I mean is that you can't simply cast your Mongoose and sit back, but you have actually to protect it. Since protecting a Mongoose requires roughly the same effort of protecting a Confidant, and Confidant has a much bigger impact on the game if it stays in play for 2-3 turns, I consider it to be a more important card in the matchup, and I am more than willing to bait a removal with Mongoose to resolve an unmolested Confidant.

[MC_EM86]

Well, six answers to Mongoose is still quite a few, considering that the average is usually 0-2. What I mean is that you can't simply cast your Mongoose and sit back, but you have actually to protect it. Since protecting a Mongoose requires roughly the same effort of protecting a Confidant, and Confidant has a much bigger impact on the game if it stays in play for 2-3 turns, I consider it to be a more important card in the matchup, and I am more than willing to bait a removal with Mongoose to resolve an unmolested Confidant.

Nimble Mongoose is the best creature in this MU because of Shroud. He only got Pernicous Deed to handle Nimble Mongoose. You have to protect DC from Spell Snare, Deed, Smother aso. Its much harder to protect DC in this MU. Yesterday I played against BUG Still with Maze of Ith but Nimble Mongoose > Maze ;)
In general... If you have DC online and if you can protect him its still gg.

[Dark Ritual]

The list of BUG Deedstill affects whether mongoose is good or not. When I was playtesting dark thresh against BUGStill with 4 innocent bloods and 4 deeds the mongoose wasn't working for me even though I was trying desperately to protect it with missteps on innocent blood he drew 2 innocent bloods and 1 misstep so he killed mongoose in the end. This was preboard though postboard we didn't test postboard but it should get better since we can board out the very awful smother's/gftt/ghastly demise for good cards. Clique is definitely sweet against them since they run loam generally and one resolved loam getting 3 lands back...that's usually really rough.

But on the plan of resolving and protecting confidant. That's always a solid plan in any MU sans burn I guess but bob is sweetness as long as he doesn't kill you by revealing multiple FoW's and the opponent putting pressure on you with creatures/burn.

Nimble mongoose is sweet. I can't get why someone would want to run wild nacatl in threshold. Nacatl is very much the worst creature you could run; he's even worse than goyf is. Nacatl gets bolted. Goyf doesn't. Nacatl dies to a multiple wasteland draw since then he's 'just a 1/1' same as an inactive mongoose. Vedalken shackles steals him. Mongoose has shroud. Really, I will always run 4 mongoose regardless of the list of tempo thresh that I play because he's sweet. Not to mention 1 mana is leagues less than 2 mana in this deck I hate to tap out and then have an opponent play a 2 drop I suddenly can't spell snare.

[MC_EM86]

Ok, its much harder to protect creatures, if your opponent is playing Innocent Blood;)
Extirpate is a very good sideboard card in this MU ;)
Is Vendilion Clique in your sideboard?

My Sideboard is as follows:
3 Disfigure
3 Extirpate
3 Deathmark
3 Spell Pierce
2 Krosan Grip
1 Tormods Crypt

I only play this Deck and sometimes Canadian but iam very satisfied with this sideboard.

[GGoober]

Nimble mongoose is sweet. I can't get why someone would want to run wild nacatl in threshold. Nacatl is very much the worst creature you could run; he's even worse than goyf is. Nacatl gets bolted. Goyf doesn't. Nacatl dies to a multiple wasteland draw since then he's 'just a 1/1' same as an inactive mongoose. Vedalken shackles steals him. Mongoose has shroud. Really, I will always run 4 mongoose regardless of the list of tempo thresh that I play because he's sweet. Not to mention 1 mana is leagues less than 2 mana in this deck I hate to tap out and then have an opponent play a 2 drop I suddenly can't spell snare.

Because Nacatl isn't really in Threshold. He's in Zoo/Blue Zoo. Before the Blue Zoo thread was created, they tried pushing ideas on the Threshold threads, which isn't surprising why they were oftentimes attacked, because as you put it, Mongoose fits in the idea of a tempo deck much more than Nacatl. Nacatl fits into a deck that is more aggressive than Tempo i.e. it only plays blue to gain tempo for free swings, and not tempo to actually stop your opponents from doing anything.

Mongoose is the best creature for Tempo Thresh.dec. He's very much better than Goyf. The shroud goes a long way, but being 1 mana means a lot in the early game where it is awkward to set up Goyfs by tapping out etc.

And people on the Blue Zoo thread often shy away comments that the 4c manabase is worth it and supports Nacatl just fine. I guess I was a little unfair playing Dreadstalker against my friend who was testing blue Zoo against it, but Nacatl always seems to be a 2/2 for most parts when I played against my friend. If your opponents do not play Wastelands, then Nacatl in Blue Zoo is pretty devastating, but it becomes pretty embarassing when she's a 2/2 against Waste.dec, not to mention being screwed on the lands in play because fetching a 4c manabase is extremely difficult and affect future lines of plays.

[Nubiatem]

I recently picked up my old Canadian thresh deck last week and thought I’d post my results.
Small local tourney, but all competitive decks ~22 people
My list:
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Fire / Ice
4 Mental Misstep

SB:
2 pyroclasm
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Submerge
4 REB
2 K Grip
2 Pithing Needle

I didn’t go for any GY hate because I was not worried about any deck but dredge and my strategies involved dodging that deck like the plague.
1st round Vs salvagers game/the game
I’m not sure what the guy played but it wasn’t close.
He exterpated (I think in game one) but never got anything meaningful.
Won 2-0
I never let him resolve a meaningful spell
2nd Round Vs RUG control
It was basically a mirror match except he did not run goose. I tend to draw very poorly in the mirror and this was no exception. Lost 0-2
3rd round vs merfolk
Mental misstep hit his first turn vial both games and I controlled the game from that point on.
In came 4 REB and 2 pyros (I know controversial but I like them)
Games where not close but I designed my sideboard to crush merfolk and zoo.
Won 2-0
4th round vs U/G poison counters
The guy said its an adaptation of a real deck and I’m sure that’s the case, however the deck looked an awful lot like a weeny deck and my burn was far too much for him to handle.
Pyro, EE and submerge came in
Won 2-0
Top 8 vs zoo
Games where a lot of fun, its always great to see their blank stare when you throw their own chain lightning back at them. After SB the match became unfairly in my favor.
Won 2-0
We ended up splitting at top 4.

I know I did not have to face dredge or any relics but honestly playing with MM felt like 4 more force of wills. I’ll happily be playing this list next time.

[Henrik]

How was stifle during the tournament?

I'm wondering, since stifle is one of the spells I consider reducing to fit the missteps.

[Charlatan]

I recently picked up my old Canadian thresh deck last week and thought I’d post my results.
Small local tourney, but all competitive decks ~22 people
My list:

Good man, no Cliques, I really hate this creature in tempo thresh...

Nice result!

[troopatroop]

Because Nacatl isn't really in Threshold. He's in Zoo/Blue Zoo. Before the Blue Zoo thread was created, they tried pushing ideas on the Threshold threads, which isn't surprising why they were oftentimes attacked, because as you put it, Mongoose fits in the idea of a tempo deck much more than Nacatl. Nacatl fits into a deck that is more aggressive than Tempo i.e. it only plays blue to gain tempo for free swings, and not tempo to actually stop your opponents from doing anything.

Mongoose is the best creature for Tempo Thresh.dec. He's very much better than Goyf. The shroud goes a long way, but being 1 mana means a lot in the early game where it is awkward to set up Goyfs by tapping out etc.

And people on the Blue Zoo thread often shy away comments that the 4c manabase is worth it and supports Nacatl just fine. I guess I was a little unfair playing Dreadstalker against my friend who was testing blue Zoo against it, but Nacatl always seems to be a 2/2 for most parts when I played against my friend. If your opponents do not play Wastelands, then Nacatl in Blue Zoo is pretty devastating, but it becomes pretty embarassing when she's a 2/2 against Waste.dec, not to mention being screwed on the lands in play because fetching a 4c manabase is extremely difficult and affect future lines of plays.

While your Nacatl was attacking for 2, did you note if Nimble Mongoose would've been 1/1? Was Shroud relevant? 2/2 for 1 is so far from embarassing. That's Isamaru, and he hits twice as hard as the Mongoose. Turns 2-4 are where Kird Ape, Wild Nacatl, or Steppe Lynx shine.

Lately, I've been watching videos of games posted online from Spain / Germany / Italy, and I see many games from Bug or Ugr thresh decks where a Mongoose attacks 4-5 times as a 1/1. I see it played on the first turn alot too. In the matches against Storm, Painter, or Spiral Tide, Wild Nacatl would've been 2-3x better, and ended the games. Nimble Mongoose gives them alot of time, and multiples of them attacking at 1/1 makes me cringe. Why are all of you satisfied with this? Combo decks are sincerely thanking you.

I understand that Nimble Mongoose is better in "this deck", because you only play 8 creatures. He closes out the game once he gets in play, and that's assured against many decks, and there's value in that. However, if you're looking to be twice as fast, look at Wild Nacatl.