Doran, and other 'low power' beefcakes

[Darkenslight]

Ok, but what would you suggest removing for him? I agree with spellskite in Standard may have become the norm, but not necessarily relevant for Legacy.

It's the ultimate proactive protection spell; it stops most targetted removal on your more important beaters, it stops any burn spell from hitting your face, and can steal things like Tezz 2.0's -1 ability. IT might not have a place here, but it's definitely a viable card for Legacy.

[Hot Soup]

Remove anything. Most of your creatures suck. Tireless tribe is card disadvantage, and if your hand is empty he's a 1/1. Nomads En-Cor is always a 1/1, what is even his point? No one in legacy runs him for a reason, and if your trying to "protect" doran, find a different card because STP is much more common than say, Lightning Bolt. The Cleric? So your depending on someone to target him before he has a fat but, that sounds like a great plan. You need to drop all the creatures I mentioned and find better ones. Your not going to get much action out of cards that wouldn't have even been played in Standard.

[Jabari]

@Hot Soup: Look up a deck called Cephalid Breakfast, and then read the forum before you say those creatures are unplayable in any deck. In reference to Tireless Tribe, have you ever heard of Dredge?

[Hot Soup]

I'm aware of Dredge and tireless tribe. Tireless Tribe is great if you WANT to put things into your Graveyard. Does this deck want to? No, so it's card disadvantage. Dredge REQUIRES a card in the GY to even get going, so of course it runs it. The same goes for Cephalid Breakfast, the creatures are there for a very narrow combo, not because you can discard a card to them to get a 1/4 beater/blocker. If your idea of winning is to discard cards, you are already losing cards. I understand the allure, the whole, I will combo out with these THREE creatures in play, or these TWO creatures in play and my ENTIRE hand to win the game. That is an ABYSSMAL Strategy. Dark Depths+Hexmage gives you a 20/20 flying indestructable creature for 2 cards, and that thing is leagues beyond your best creature and it doesn't even see play! All an opponent ever has to do is counter/kill your dorans and your deck is nothing. Your playing a Combo deck based around attacking with creatures, except you have no way to realisticly protect your combo. Going Combo is the wrong way entirely if you want to play Doran. Just play a bunch of undercosted dudes with fat asses and beat face.

[optml]

@Jabari It's nice that I'm not the only who realises Hot Soup's ignorance.

@Hot Soup. If I was face-to-face with you I would just say something like: "Quiet Time Hot Soup, go and play Standard... or Monopoly". But I'm not, and I can't stop you being on a Legacy forum, so instead I'll be mature and explain the reasoning behind the creatures.

Tireless Tribe: it is a 1/1 for 1 mana that blocks well. However, with Doran out, he becomes a very scary threat. The whole POINT of this deck is to abuse Doran's passive ability, and I challenge you to find a more exciting creature, for only 1 mana.

Nomads en-Kor and Daru Spiritualist: They work together. With Nomads en-kor (1cc) and Daru (2cc), you can make Daru's toughness to any number. I think it's safe to assume you don't understand how it works, based on your past comments, so let me elaborate. Nomad targets Daru to 'redirect 1 damage'. The damage doesn't actually need to exist; you are still allowed to 'pay' the 0 mana cost and target Daru. His toughness grows... Nice... Then you throw down a Doran, the Siege Tower and he becomes awesome.

Also, you mentioned most of my creatures suck.

Dark Confidant - Tell me you aren't including our little buddy Bob in this list?
Treefolk Harbinger - Erm... I assume you realise why he's in here? HINT: Check out Doran's creature type, then compare it with Harbinger's triggered ability.
The other creatures have been covered above, and I think it's safe to say they don't suck in this deck...

So I ask again... What would people recommend removing for Spellskite?

[Hot Soup]

@Jabari It's nice that I'm not the only who realises Hot Soup's ignorance.

@Hot Soup. If I was face-to-face with you I would just say something like: "Quiet Time Hot Soup, go and play Standard... or Monopoly". But I'm not, and I can't stop you being on a Legacy forum, so instead I'll be mature and explain the reasoning behind the creatures.

Tireless Tribe: it is a 1/1 for 1 mana that blocks well. However, with Doran out, he becomes a very scary threat. The whole POINT of this deck is to abuse Doran's passive ability, and I challenge you to find a more exciting creature, for only 1 mana.

Nomads en-Kor and Daru Spiritualist: They work together. With Nomads en-kor (1cc) and Daru (2cc), you can make Daru's toughness to any number. I think it's safe to assume you don't understand how it works, based on your past comments, so let me elaborate. Nomad targets Daru to 'redirect 1 damage'. The damage doesn't actually need to exist; you are still allowed to 'pay' the 0 mana cost and target Daru. His toughness grows... Nice... Then you throw down a Doran, the Siege Tower and he becomes awesome.

Also, you mentioned most of my creatures suck.

Dark Confidant - Tell me you aren't including our little buddy Bob in this list?
Treefolk Harbinger - Erm... I assume you realise why he's in here? HINT: Check out Doran's creature type, then compare it with Harbinger's triggered ability.
The other creatures have been covered above, and I think it's safe to say they don't suck in this deck...

So I ask again... What would people recommend removing for Spellskite?

I'm aware of the interaction between Nomads EnCor and the Cleric. My point is that without Doran, your deck is full of creatures that do nothing on their own to threaten the opponent. Bob is good, and you do indeed have a Doran tutor, but if your opponent counters or kills Doran, you have nothing unless you stick another. That is the problem. Its the same theory as say, Kiln Fiend in standard or even Legacy, as Pat Sullivan tried. Sure, he can be explosive, and works great, but most times, he will die to something, and now your strategy blows. You NEED more to protect Doran, and spellskite could go a decent ways to do so. Take out Tireless tribe. Yes, you can dump your hand and smack for a bunch, but what if you dump your hand and your opp kills Doran in resp. You've effectivly lost the game. You now have a board creature in play and no hand. In Legacy, you've lost. He's simply way to risky at best, where as Spellskite is a 0/4 always and protects Doran.

[optml]

Hmmm... Fair comments Hot Soup. I think I will try and force in a set of Spellskite. They are aggressive with Doran in play too so double whammy. Their colourless mana requirement helps.

Ok, I'll modify and try, although I am hesitant to withdraw the tribes. I'll test and update. Thanks!

[jhhdk]

+2 Stoneforge Mystic
+1 Lightning Greaves
+1 Umezawa's Jitte
-4 Nomad's en-kor

Might be worth considdering. Greaves preserves combo (at sorcery speed) and offers protection to Doran. While Jitte gives creatures teeth when Doran is not in play.

[Richard Cheese]

Just build Treefolk. Indomitable Ancients FTW!!

[optml]

Guys ('n Gals), I'm having problems with consistency and any chances seem to reduce the power... Has anyone got any improvements for it? The decklist on MWS I'm using is:

4x Doran, the Siege Tower
4x Treefolk Harbinger
4x Spellskite
4x Dark Confidant
3x Nomads en-Kor
3x Daru Spiritualist
2x KotR

4x Unearth
3x Vindicate
3x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Aether Vial
2x Swords to Plowshares

2x Mox Diamond

1x Bojuka Bog
1x Starlit Sanctum
4x Murmuring Bosk
4x Windswept Heath
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Plains
1x Swamp


All ideas are welcome guys!

I'm winning against poor players or bad hands, but Tier1 decks with excellent players are tricky to beat. I like indomitable ancients but it's pricey at 4cc.

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

Priests of Norn?

[Karhumies]

Mother of Runes (better than Spellskite? excellent blocks, protects from removal + gives unblockable from 1 color)
Tarmogoyf (better than Spellskite?)
1-2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant (for the flying, mainly)
Tidehollow Sculler (works better than 5+ copies of Vindicate/Pulse?)
1x Lignify (for tutoring with Harbringer)

Birds of Paradise
Perimeter Captain
Overgrown Battlement
Wall of Blossoms/Omens
Glissa, the Traitor
Sheltering Ancient

Possibly
2-4x Green Sun's Zenith (better than Mox Diamond?)
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Gaddock Teeg (anti-combo, at least a little bit)

Possibly
3-4x Natural Order
1x Progenitus
(1x Terastodon)

Sideboard
Ethersworn Canonist

[NukeMoose]

Just wanted to chime in the say Hot Soup is certainly not ignorant of this game.

I play a gold deck (casually) with Doran as a random beater (along with Rhox War Monk and Shadowmage Infiltator and birds of Paradise). However spellskite sounds hilarious with Doran and although he's colorless I might have to give that a try.