Glittering Wish seems awfully slow. I mean, Tarmogoyf often looks slow in this deck. But then, people do play Zenith, which is even slower (compared to Goyf, not to Wish). I guess if you are a very midrangy Zoo, you could try it. But in my opinion Zoo is neither supposed to be a midrange deck nor a silverbullet answer deck. The targets don't even look that enticing.
Why do you need a toolbox when you should be beating face? The only useful card you have listed is Gaddock Teeg. If you're deadset on making sure you have a Gaddock Teeg game 1, run more or run GSZ. Except for Lightning Helix, none of the rest of the cards you list even make the cut in Zoo, let alone for an additional 2 mana, reveal and sorcery speed.Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
The problem with Glittering Wish in Zoo is the problem with a lot of potential cards in Zoo: what do you cut?
Singletons of multiple creatures/spells:The problem with Glittering Wish in Zoo is the problem with a lot of potential cards in Zoo: what do you cut?
Qasali Pridemage (play 3)
Lightning Helix (play 2-3)
Knight of the Reliquary (play 3)
That makes room for 3 Glittering Wishes...which could either get those 3 cards (should you decide you need them in your sideboard) OR you can get Vexing Shusher, Guttural Response, or Gaddock Teeg game 1 vs. control and combo. This is my thought process anyways...it's a rather slow way to tutor for silver bullets, but gives the deck a little better chance (concievably) game 1 vs. problematic matchups.
This is all conceptual...I'm looking for feedback from prominant/experienced zoo players. I'm not tied to the idea emotionally or any other way...it's just an idea, one that I'm trying to look at objectively.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
What's your experience in playing Zoo Vs Maverick (GW Stoneforge)? That deck is quite popular all over Europe at the moment and I thought Zoo might be a good counter due to massive removal and Grim Lavamancer. Is the matchup really that good for Zoo or does it stumble against KotR + equipment?
I have tested the pairing and Its positive for zoo, we have a lot of removal and our guys are bigger, mvp vs maverick Sylvan Library.
I played Big Punishing Zoo in our small local tournament last weekend.
the list:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Windswept heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
Side:
1 Loaming Shaman
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
2 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Vexing Shusher
Matchups:
Round:1 vs UG Infect 2:0 (recurring Punishing Fire's are just insane vs Infect...)
Round 2: vs Big Zoo 2:0 (was actually a tough battle but him having bad luck in game 2 with his Library)
Round 3: vs Merfolk 2:0 (I just had a nice creature curve and burn for every relevant creature)
Round 4 vs Merfolk 2:1 (Game1: he mulls to 5 - Game 2: he has full board followed by a Perish - Game 3: i get Nacatl and Goyf online and after he lands a Kira my Choke prevents him from casting his Perish again. Karakas + Punishing Fire seal the deal shortly after.
final result: 4:0 (8:1)
I was very impressed by the performance of the deck again. When i remember right i only had to take one mulligan.
@ Muradin: I think this list might be even better vs Maverick due to the recurring Fire's vs "the evil Mutti"
I lost to it 1-2 last weekend, but theoretically I don't think it's a terrible matchup. Basically both games I lost to Elspeth, KotR, Thrun, and Jitte all hitting play, which is a really annoying combination. I was digging for Path/StP with Library but just couldn't find enough, nor enough burn to put Elspeth away.
How is the matchup against JUNK with zoo?
Not bad I'd say. Requires some tight play though. Hands with more lands are generally better because of Wasteland and Vindicate. Extending into Pernicious Deed should be avoided.
Price of Progress can be a beating for them.
So i have a question, has mm had any testing? It seems that with led out of dredge, mm hits every discard outlet. seems good...
Im thinking of running all 1/2 drops, with 3 lavamen, 2 teeg, 0 pop and 3 mm. previously i ran 4 lavamen, 2 pop.
is cutting pop for mm a good call to beat dredge? seems like it can wreck them..
@Para, why you win is that you only get good matchups lol...
Those decks aren't really hard to play against with big zoo
and I play mm in my zoo 4x mainboard, it works quite good but didn't been on a tournament with it.
But it gives you more chance against combo and also against all decks, like if they play smt manacost 1 you can counter it. POP is very good buy I would also play it in sideboard or maybe 2 main.
totally agree with you about good matchups but wasn't this obvious anyway? I actually only posted the results to point out that Big Punishing Zoo is a nice choice in an aggro meta. In Europe a lot of people play Maverick now so this list might get a little more popular.
Any help: I have a very very hard time fighting decks like Sneak Show, Affinity, TES/ANT, and Belcher
I run 3 Gaddock Teegs in the side, but against some of these decks, its a nightmare.
Storm and Belcher are never going to be good matchups. I've had decent luck with an E. Tutor board to nail decks like Affinity with Null Rod, and Sneak/Show or Natural Order anything with Phyrexian Metamorph.
Oh man. Good thing not too many people play Storm and Belcher now.
Hey guys, I started playing Zoo recently after messing around with combo elves for a bit. This is the list I am running and would appreciate any feedback. I seem to be doing really well with it, and I rather enjoy it. If you have any advice, that would be great! Thanks!
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Loam Lion
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
2 Fireblast
2 Sylvan Library
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
you can make storm 50/50 or better but it is totally not worthit as you need like 4 Mbt and 6-8 hate bears. In my experience combining hate bears with Mbt or orims chant works alot better than just one or the other.
If Maverick gets big in the states, would Flash of Defiance be worth considering in the board?
Hello and welcome! Your list seems quite good to me. I don't really have much to comment on.
@Maverick: You don't need narrow cards like that to combat them. Play more Grim Lavamancers and more burn, Ancient Grudge in the sideboard if you're afraid of Stoneforge Mystic. Jitte should be good against them too, although that's a bit risky since they can fetch their own and legend-rule it.
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