[Deck] EDNAE (Eggs: Disclaimer No Actual Eggs)

[smoky squirrel]

Can you post your list, Kicks? I am quite interested in how you would modify the list with the additions and still keep the combo intact. I even have trouble sideboarding...

Does anybody play nonbasics, or have a good reason not to do so? I think Moon effects need to be avoided, otherwise it is another way to stop us in our combo turn.

[kicks_422]

Here's where I'm at.

4 Ghost Quarter
4 Plains
3 Island
3 Forest

4 Lotus Bloom
4 Reshape
4 Wargate
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Elsewhere Flask
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Silence
4 Second Sunrise
4 Open the Vaults
2 Pyrite Spellbomb

[Mr. Safety]

Has anyone tried out Street Wraith yet? I know Edge of Autumn is great for getting lands back to reuse (working great with Second Sunrise), but I worry about the lack of Ponder...

What does your sideboard look like kicks_422?

[semioldguy]

Why play Street Wraith when you could play Gitaxian Probe? Same cost, but upside of using a mana if you can't spare two life since it's blue, and looking at the opponent's hand, which can be relevant for a combo deck.

It isn't likely to get countered as it would be one of the least relevant spells to counter in the deck. And if it is countered for some reason, you are either dead because you opponent can waste counters on irrelevant cards, or you win because your opponent is dumb and you just cleared the way for resolving silence or second sunrise.

[Sims]

I actually hate using Edge unless I'm mid-going off via Sunrise, so I've been thinking of cutting it down in numbers from my build or using probe/wraith in it's place.

I'm also not hip to Wargate. Sure, resolving your first Lotus Bloom is necessary, but once you've got bloom down and you're going off, Wargate is a fairly dead card, at least in my testiing.

For refernce, I started with the list posted on the mothership (11 island, 4 ghost quarter, 4 ponder, 2 preordain, +combo cards) and have been slowly modifying the list. I don't like all 4 Edge of Autumns and I haven't been super happy with Open the Vaults either. I'm still wondering if it might be worth it to run a teachings or two as extra copies of sunrise and just go for sunrise. Four mana is a lot for a tutor, but it's an instant so I can grab my sunrise at their EoT and combo off on my turn post Silence.

Just another thought to test, I suppose.

[Mr. Safety]

I think the key is the cantrip artifacts (Flask, Stars, Bauble) and only having 16 of them is rough. You really should have 20 cantrip artifacts (from my experience with the deck in legacy.) Edge of Autumn is your next best bet, along with potentialy Probe/Wraith for added draw...but they don't get exponentially better like the artifacts do. While the spellbombs are more mana intensive because they don't replace the mana used, I think you need enough to get to that 20 count of cantrip artifacts.

[dorsch]

12 Island
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Lotus Bloom
4 Reshape
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Edge of Autumn
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Sunrise Spellbomb
4 Second Sunrise
3 Drift of Phantasms
2 Noxious Revival
4 Preordain
3 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe

In a heavy blue meta:
-2 Gitaxian Probe -1 Ponder -1 Noxious Revival
-5 Island
+4 Silence
+1 Hallowed Fountain
+4 U-Fetch

Sideboard:

Silence
Gigadrowse
Echoing Truth
Aether Spellbomb
??


During goldfishing on the play I combo more half of the time on turn 4. Sometimes on turn 3 or 5. I fizzle, mull into oblivion or am not able to combo at about one in 8 games.

Disclaimer: I did not bring this deck to an actual tournament yet, but I did a lot of goldfishing and some playtesting. There is a weekly tournament though and I will start participating next week.

A fundamental difference between most of the lists I've seen in this thread is the fact, that I use only Islands as basiclands, several cantrips and Drift of Phantasms as Second Sunrise 5-7.
I really like Ponder and Preordain in this deck, as a Hand with no island is most likely a hand with 0-1 lands and thus unkeepable. A Hand with only one Island and 1-2 Preordain/Ponder is usually a good hand. During the combo I either draw enough chromatics, if I don't I usually have enough mana floating to use Ponder and Preordain to dig for the next Second Sunrise/Drift/Revival. Ponder also lets you look at 4 cards. you have to resolve 3 Second Sunrise to let a Chromatic reveal the same number of cards.

Some words on tutors:
While Drift may act as a Open the Vaults (Drift + Sunrise =6 mana, just as OtV) I very often transmute Drift on turn 3 to combo on turn 4.
I do not like spoils from the vault because of the number of zoo decks in this meta, the need to include additional Pyrite Spellbombs into the deck and the impossibility to use more than one Spoils during one game.


Some other notable exclusions:
Wargate: I want to search for my first Lotus Bloom before I cast my first second sunrise but its very difficult to produce the necessary colors. Unless reshape it does not net one additional mana.
Elsewhere Flask: I had some number of these in the slot of Ponder, but two mana is a lot. For the same two mana I might cast a Preordain and a Ponder which gets more value, during the set up and even during the combo.

@semioldguy: I totally agree with you, but I think 4 Probes is not the right number. Versus Zoo every life point matters and drawing more than one in you starting 7 makes mulligan decisions very hard.

@Sims: I prefer 3 mana over 4 so I run Drift of Phantasms over Mystical Tachings. The flashback _never_ made a difference so far. I'm not able to see the advantage you get by tutoring eot to "surprise" your opponent. Edge of Autumn is a great card. Especially during the first and second Second Sunrise I need every additional mana I can get.
You prefer Ponder over Preordain? Isn't Ponder inferior during set up?

@Mr. Safety: I think this deck is very different to Legacy. You loose lots of cheap mana (Lotus Petal, Archaeological Dig...). Because of this, spellbombs and Elsewhere Flask are not able to replace the eggs. I tried to replace the eggs with cantrips and it works great so far.

[Sims]

@Sims: I prefer 3 mana over 4 so I run Drift of Phantasms over Mystical Tachings. The flashback _never_ made a difference so far. I'm not able to see the advantage you get by tutoring eot to "surprise" your opponent. Edge of Autumn is a great card. Especially during the first and second Second Sunrise I need every additional mana I can get.
You prefer Ponder over Preordain? Isn't Ponder inferior during set up?

Mystical was basically a testing slot. I've got Drifts but I haven't really tested them yet. They likely will get the nod over Teachings if simply due to the fact that it's easier to set up that way. What I don't like about it is that it broadcasts your next turn. With little to no protection, transmuting turn 3 broadcasts the turn 4 win intention and they will know to either hold mana up for counter magic or to cast whatever discard spell they have that they might have otherwise cast out a threat. However, it's likely the best we can do.

Edge is a great card, however you point out yourself especially during the first and second Sunrise. I like seeing them when I'm going off, not when I'm setting up. Hence, likely cut to 3, maybe 2, but probably 3 of.

Ponder vs. Preordain could go either way, for me I like the ability to dig 1 card deeper. It's a personal preference, but I personally feel ponder has been better for me.

[Kanti]

Why aren't you guys playing fetchlands? If you don't have Ghost or a fetch it is hard as hell to combo off as you are simply not going through enough of your deck. The life loss is negligible to how much it speeds you up.

I like OtV but I don't know. It's mana cost is rather prohibitive, especially since this deck is always scrambling for mana. Noxious is 0-1 mana and even if you just have 1 Star you can get Sunrise off the top. (Sac it for mana, use the mana, let it hit the gy, draw) It basically reads "Get back Second Sunrise, now"

Your list seems mega slow though kicks. x4 OtV, x4 Silence, x4 Wargate seems like too much. The deck isn't really gonna handle all those high mana spells. You only really wanna see 1 Wargate per game. I'd run 3 max.

To Mr.Safety, Edge is better in every single way. It's pretty much the best cantrip while comboing off. It gives mana which this deck needs a lot of.

[Mr. Safety]

Yes, it's good while comboing off...it's bad when you are not. I think 2 is enough in the deck, and the other 2 slots should go to Gitaxian Probe. This gets your deck to that magic 20 cantrip effects that I was talking about.

Regardless, I think Silence maindeck x3-4 is smarter than Wargate. You have 4 Reshapes and 4 Lotus Blooms...that should give you enough consistency. I tend to think that more than 1-2 Open the Vaults is not a smart move...it's just too slow, as Kanti mentioned.

I like the dig version that dorsch cooked up with Drifts, Ponders, and Preordains. Nice. I would say that 4 Gitaxian Probe and 4 Ponders would be better, and if you have any slots left, then squeeze in Preordain...just my opinion.

[Mr. Froggy]

The Wargates aren't only for the Lotus Blooms, they're for Ghost Quarter also.

[Mr. Safety]

Wargate is a REALLY expensive Rampant Growth than. You do realize that you can just use a fetchland for land acceleration at the low cost of 1-life with each activation? Just use fetches and basics, and you should be fine. Ghost Quarter was the only 'fetchland' legal when this was in old extended...you now have real fetches at your disposal.

I just don't like Wargate...I feel 4 Reshapes are enough tutors. I think the real question is: Open the Vaults or not?

[Maveric78f]

I don't get how Open the Vaults can be better than a transmute card (Drift of Phantasms typically). It still costs 6.

[Kanti]

Dude, you need Ghost Quarter. And Wargate is amazing. Not as a four-of sure, but it is nothing like Growth at all.

Casting Wargate for bloom ensures that after you cast Sunrise you will have 3 extra mana to combo out with. That is 2-3 casted eggs, which means 2-3 extra draws.

OtV might be good, I have not tested with it, but Noxious Revival just seems better. Dodges Teeg, gets back other cards, and it cost 0-1 mana.

You guys gotta remember than you can sac an egg for green mana, use that green mana, play Revival, slap a Sunrise on top, and draw it off that egg.

[Mr. Safety]

You guys gotta remember than you can sac an egg for green mana, use that green mana, play Revival, slap a Sunrise on top, and draw it off that egg.

I'm fairly certain that this does not work. You sacrifice the egg (Star really) for mana and draw a card at the same time. There isn't a moment between modes so you can now use that green mana to cast Revival before you draw. You will end up sacking the Star for green, draw a card, and THEN you may use that mana for Noxious Revival...but you need another source of card draw to get the returned Sunrise into your hand.

[Tempus]

It works with Chromatic Star.

First ability is a mana ability so no stack, second is a trigger. You can respond to the trigger with revival..

[Kanti]

^

That. And that is presuming you don't have the 2 life to pay. Aggro is fast as shit so maybe you won't, but who knows. If it's late game you can have activated Sunbeam Spellbomb, which happens pretty often.

I'm not sure this deck is good in the meta. As always it suffers from opposing gy hate, which is bound to pop up. It also sucks vs counter heavy decks, but at least there aren't that many around.

For the Zoo matchup you should be trying to combo out twice if it can get you ahead. A simple Sunrise chain with Ghost Quarter or a Fetchland can net you a lot of extra room to combo off on t3. At that point you just Revival pack a Sunrise, draw into another, or Spoils for it.

[Mr. Safety]

Ahhh...I was looking at Chromatic Sphere, which got 'fixed' into Chromatic Star. Thanks for the run-down.

[Technics]

Why aren't you guys playing fetchlands? If you don't have Ghost or a fetch it is hard as hell to combo off as you are simply not going through enough of your deck. The life loss is negligible to how much it speeds you up.

I like OtV but I don't know. It's mana cost is rather prohibitive, especially since this deck is always scrambling for mana. Noxious is 0-1 mana and even if you just have 1 Star you can get Sunrise off the top. (Sac it for mana, use the mana, let it hit the gy, draw) It basically reads "Get back Second Sunrise, now"

Your list seems mega slow though kicks. x4 OtV, x4 Silence, x4 Wargate seems like too much. The deck isn't really gonna handle all those high mana spells. You only really wanna see 1 Wargate per game. I'd run 3 max.

To Mr.Safety, Edge is better in every single way. It's pretty much the best cantrip while comboing off. It gives mana which this deck needs a lot of.

Thats what wargate is for. I so many times find myself reshaping a Bloom, and wargating a ghost, and using it to help me combo, then using it over and over on opponits, to kill their lands to stop them from stopping me.

[dorsch]

So Ponder and Preordain are banned, which hardly weaken this deck. With all the faster combo decks out of the way, do you think this deck could become viable?