With the 3 or 4 witnesses main it does seem like a lot of value could be derived from at least one targeted removal like swords. Another card I have been thinking about is fleshbag marauder. It is a little clunky as a 3 mana sorcery edict, but it has extra value of being podded into/nightmared and allows for sacrificing vet or rector.
I played some games vs. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=40387
(Bgw knight + depths) and preboard we can't interact with it on a meaningful level. Post board swords and seizes allow for some mobility but the opponents 4 living wishes allows for a lot of redundancy and the 4 missteps still counter the sb options.
We switched decks back and forth and the gbw explorer won by flipping back revilark with reccuring nightmare while getting value with witness/walls. Otherwise the 20/20 wandered through the redzone. The deck is able to stave off the tarms/knights well. A resolved bob on t2 is a huge problem.
I won the next Legacy trial, too, only 32 players and 5 rounds but no bye this time, so 5-0 again. Same main deck list as last time because Hymns and Pulses are awesome and I haven't figured a Pod list with them yet.
- Hymn was awesome
- Maelstrom Pulse overperformed every single game. List needs more Pulses.
- Recurring Nightmare underperformed
- Garruk was good, Grave Titan was good, GSZ was good
Slightly altered side. I will write a short report later.
List here:
http://www.magic-league.com/deck/722...0Control163890
Report:
R1 McKeks with G/W Maverick:
The matchup is quite one-sided because of Deed and superior card power level. Another option to buy time for finding Deed is stripping his hand off Swords and locking him with Spike Weaver. He was not the best player, but even really good play wouldn't have changed anything.
In G2 he tried to Ruleslawyer but failed pretty badly. He starts to stall by playing defence with not attacking and tutoring Maze which is odd in a KO round when at 0-1. So I just keep on not losing and playing defensively and ultra-safe around everything from Geddon to Cataclysm without attacking, keeping lands and spells back. Then when time is over he goes crazy. It was 19-18 life for him (I have an active Ooze with 4 Mana up though) and I say end my turn so he somehow thinks he has won. It was kind of amusing how he tried to sneak a win that he not only didn't deserve but also couldn't get by the rules for multiple reasons.
1-0, 1-0
R2 Figazin with Stoneforge Mystic / Ancestral Vision / Jace TMS
Unlike my round 1 opponent he played good. He made one mistake in G1 with losing too much to a Deed but those things happen in long games and other than that he played fine.
The games were as close as it gets with another judge call in G3. This time I don't know if he tried to sneak something or if it was just a miscommunication:
I play a Therapy on him and in response he Wastes my Phyrexian Tower. So I take Mana in my Pool. We put both lands to the yard. Then he says "Ok". So I assume my Therapy resolves and I name "Force of Will". Then he tries to Force it and says he said "Ok" to the Mana ability that I take 1 instead of BB into the Pool from Tower and not "Ok" to the Therapy. It was ruled for me because the Stack was empty and you usually never Ok to Mana anyway. So I see his hand which was quite empty but he rips a Jace from the top of his deck so the game gets close but I manage to win on the back of Thrun from GSZ. Had he managed to find a FoW with his Jace I would have lost. This matchup very difficult and Jace/SFM in combination with Vision for more gas is extremely tough to outcontrol.
2-1, 2-0
R3: Mockingbird with Natural RUG + GSZ and Cliques
G1 is pretty hard domination because he didn't do anything up to his fourth turn when I already had Deed and 2 Walls in play. He then played a Scavenging Ooze which I had to Deed away because of the two Witnesses in my hand. I then played a Garruk on turn 5 because I drew my second and wanted to draw the Force but it just resolved. He played a Clique next turn and races me a bit with it and Bolts me in response to a Hymn but it was too little too late.
G2 is close then. He goes for a turn 2 Goyf while I hymned him but only hit excess lands. A turn 3 Clique that took my Pulse away puts a lot of pressure on me, especially after a GSZ on another Goyf. I can GSZ for Thrun and luckily he doesn't find the Instant to 4/5 his Goyfs so they have to stay home for one turn and that was just enough time to stabilize. I play a Garruk and he has to decide if he wants to use his attacks to go for Garruk or my life total. He goes for my throat but that means I get to draw 4 off Garruk thanks to Thrun. Nice Combo btw, -3ing without worrying about removal. I find the Deed and win then. Attacking Garruk wouldn't have been much better though. He wastes 6 damage and I still get 2 3/3 and 2 cards from my draw step out of the deal plus way more Mana while being ahead on cards anyway. Maybe one attack on Garruk and then attack me so I don't draw. I don't know.
Btw. I only know he played with Natural Order from checking the decklists, he never had one his four.
2-0, 3-0
R4: Gero 789 with Natural Order RUG
G1 He makes an extemely bad play in G1 that I just have no explanation for. His board is Sylvan Library and Goyf and he plays a Clique, looks at my hand and lets me keep my Deed. So I play Deed, wipe his board next turn and win. the heck was that...
G2 he draws 4 cards for 16 life with Library and 2 cards with Edric Spymaster during the first turns. I have triple Hymn that takes 6 spells in total so it is at least a bit fair. I deed him twice, then he finds Order but I had an Edict all game long that I couldn't use because he always had a Hierarch. I have to consider switching Edict to Damnation as long as RUG is big in the Meta, despite Edict being better against Reanimator and Hive Mind. An earlier Prog could have been lethal and the Spike Weaver plan is daring against a deck with red removal.
<Gero789> nice luck
<Fanboy1> thx
<Gero789> gg
<Fanboy1> gg
<Gero789> but
<Gero789> deck is orrible
<Gero789> no blue in legacy is bad
2-0, 4-0
R5: Delacroix with Team America
Opponent has no mana. He edicts me twice, forces once then still has no land so he loses to Hermit, but it could have been anything. Bad luck for him.
And a third judge call, oh my, the drama. He Edicts my Dryad Arbor at the end of his second turn off Bayou and Wasteland. Then in his mainphase he wants to play a Brainstorm off his Bayou, I tell him that is impossible and he ends the turn without a land drop. This looked very fishy to me. I mean when you only have one color producing land how can you not know the colors of it? So I go to judges and let them give him a warning and after that he of goes crazy, threatens to leave the game and behaves like I am an asshole. I think if he honestly made a mistake he would have just apologized because it obviously DID look fishy. So I think he just tried to cheat.
G2 I sided wrong because I thought he was playing some Loam deck from what I saw in G1. Should have known better. But he mulls to 5 on the play so it doesn't matter and I even get to tilt him a bit more with the Extirpates so that is good.
2-0, 5-0
Awesome deck! Has bitterblossom ever been an option? Its a great black control card, but Im unsure how it is with deed.
Btw, why isnt this in the Established section?
Yeah, this belongs in Established.
@Tao: You should update the list in the first post to match the one you're currently playing. Otherwise well done.
I feel like blossom would get swept under the rug far too often with deeds and the deck loves to attrition out games so the life lose would be notable. I would not test it, but if it makes sense to you, i'd say give it a shot!
I can't wait for innistrad to be fully spoiled. I have a great feeling about a GB or B planeswalker for this deck.
Bitterblossom: This is not a Blossom deck. The deck is rarely aggressive and conserving the life total is quite important.
For the Established section: The deck itself is certainly good enough, but there is no widely agreed list yet. Atm I play the list mentioned above with 2 extra Pulses so I guess we could take that for the OP and I could write a bit about strategy and boarding. The Birthing Pod territory isn't explored yet but this can be done in Established as well.
Birthing Pod: I tested with the Standard UGW Birthing Pod deck from Ruel and it is very good. Not to transition to Legacy the way it is but awesome to play. Endless tricks.
If you play the Sun Titan version then Phantasmal Image is a card to look at. Returning Image with Titan cloning Titan is great. Also an Emrakul/Prog/Tombstalker solution and copying KotR or Witness isn't the worst.
New Liliana: The new Liliana is quite busted. She will be best in either Pox or Loam Control or BG Vengevine. In fact she might very well be good enough to make real decks out of them. Unfortunately I can't imagine that she has a place in this. She is a solution to Prog. and Emrakul and good against Combo but the +1 just flat out sucks for this in every other matchup.
Double post but Holy cow this is on Channelfireball !!!
http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...ng-the-format/
List looks sweet I have to admit (at least the main). Plus last time Caleb picked up one of my decks and changed it, it went pretty far.
Nice.
I'm not so sure about bringing additional Gift engines from the SB, since you will def. be facing GY hate.
Congtratz man. Keep up the good work!Originally Posted by Tao
I was talking with Caleb inbetween vintage side events about what he was going to play, he said blue zoo or hivemind. He then joked about a vet explorer deck, and I was like hey... I have all the cards for the deck, and brought 8 explorers with me. He showed me is list and explained what he was trying to accomplish.
When he did not show up the following morning I suspected alcohol was involved (if anyone sees him, ask him about the mountain dew bottle story from the previous night).
Also, the new garruk is intruiging for this deck: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...6&d=1314936567
I just got back from a 4-round swiss tournament running a Gbwu build. I think you can get away with the risk of fun things with this deck.
Round 1 against UBG Dreadnought
Deed and Maelstrom Pulse are generally sufficient to deal with Dreadnoughts. These weren't very close ever.
Round 2 against UW Mystic
Sat under a standstill forever waiting for good colored lands and then won with some Cabal Therapies. Won game 2 with a Pridemage knocking out a Batterskull and then Jace + beats.
Round 3 against Merfolk
He didn't get nutty 5 creature hands so I attritioned him out slowly. This is probably an unfavorable matchup unless you're running a lot of the cheaper removal.
Round 4 against GBwr Loam
Significant advantage here. You can basically just answer threats as they're played and go for the long game. Won game 1 with a turn 3 Future Sight which netted me 0 cards for 4 turns after he cast Devastating Dreams (for 5). It still won the game.
My list was approximately
19x fetches, basics, and duals
1x Maze of Ith
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Wasteland
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Future Sight
1x Karn, Liberated
1x Recurring Nightmare
3x Eternal Witness
3x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Veteran Explorer
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Lotus Cobra
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Sun Titan
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Wall of Blossoms
4x Cabal Therapy
2x Gifts Ungiven
2x Sensei's Divning Top
1x Regrowth
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Innocent Blood
Sideboard:
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Thoughtseize
2x Duress
2x Life from the Loam
2x Wasteland
1x Ghost Quarter
I find I bring in the 4 Thoughtseizes against everything. The LftL engine should probably be some anti-combo cards although I do enjoy the extra Wastelands.
Some more anecdata for you all.
First of all congratulations.
Weeeee more ideas ... like there were problems filling the 60 :D So Lotus Cobra and Future Sight.
Lotus Cobra seems good. And Future Sight is a great thing to Fetch with Rector against Control when you need something to win. I don't know about splashing White just for just those three cards though. Titan is really good while 1 Qasali and 1 KotR are nothing that justifies and Extra color. But with 1 Future Sight, 1 Rec. Nightmare and 3 Deed in the deck isn't Rector an obvious inclusion?
Just for the record I am 22-1 at Magic League now. That includes wins against the likes of an Elf player who died to his own pact and a Solidarity player who played Accumulated Knowledge and tried to Combo and Reset in his own EoT step after I Extirpated something during that EoT. But it also included a lot of Goyfs and Merfolk and Stoneforge Mystics and 22-1 isn't too shabby even with a wins that could have been losses. Most of the games were played with straight GB though recently I switched back to experimenting with Gifts.
Hi Tao,
I have been following this thread for quite some time and got interested in building this kind of deck. What are your thoughts on Caleb's build in ChannelFireball? I kinda got lost in translation as to how to play that build. Your version is straightforward and I like it however, I am also interested in getting to know the mechanics of Caleb's build. Gifts has been missing in action for quite sometime and I would love to bring it in our meta (btw, I'm from the Philippines). As the deck's proponent, do you have any plans in dabbling with Caleb's build? If so, what would be the approach in playing that deck? Your input will surely clear things on my mind as to which version should I play.
Haben Sie vielen Dank! [did I type that right :-)]
Iīm glad that i found this Thread after i saw the first Decklist on TC-Decks from "fanboy1". After some testing and two tournaments, my current list:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
3 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shriekmaw
1 Spike Weaver
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wall of Blossoms
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Recurring Nightmare
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
5 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard:
2 Chainerīs Edict
1 Consuming Vapors
4 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
3 Sadistic Sacrament
3 Summoning Trap
It worked well in the first three Rounds of the last Tournament, but then my luck was gone against NO Rug, TES, Punishing StoneBlade and Reanimator. Now iīm thinking about the third color. Donīt know why but i donīt like blue in this Deck. Perhaps something like that:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Eternal Witness
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Sun Titan
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Spike Weaver
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Veteran Explorer
2 Wall of Blossoms
4 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Forest
3 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard:
2 Retribution of the Meek
1 Consuming Vapors
4 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
3 Orimīs Chant
3 Summoning Trap
So, what do you think? Sideboard decisions like Summoning Trap or Sadistic Sacrament are first trys and discussably.
Some explanation: I donīt like Academy Rector - too often there is no Therapy or Tower and he got a StP. In my opinion it is almost the same like Birthing Pod - too much playing around something what looks great, but is it realy necessary? Normaly this Deck is able to beat most Aggro Decks with many removal + recursion and lifegain. In the G/B Builds is a bundle of Discard for Control and Combo but in my Testgames it was not enough to Win above average many games aggainst Punishing Fire, Progenitus, Hivemind and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
Your list is very similar to mine:
// Lands
4 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Volrath's Stronghold
// Creatures
4 Eternal Witness
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Veteran Explorer
2 Qasali Pridemage
// Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Karn Liberated
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Profane Command
1 Recurring Nightmare
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 Vexing Shusher
SB: 1 Loaming Shaman
SB: 1 Uktabi Orangutan
SB: 3 Diabolic Edict
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
Guys have you checked Caleb Durward's build in ChannelFireball? He tweaked Tao's decklist with a splash of blue (Gifts Ungiven) and did not rely on GSZ this time. Its quite good but I'm a bit lost in translation in terms of playing that (Caleb's) deck. I know its a control deck but I'm a bit clueless regarding which card should you fetch via Gifts against these decks --> NO Rug, Folks, Bant and Maverick
I'm a bit torn between Caleb's and Tao's built. Tao's is straightforward Rock Control-esque and Caleb's has a toolbox approach. I want to know the thoughts of the followers of this thread. Im planning to surprise a lot of people in our upcoming tourney this October/ November (depending on the speed of the deck's creation)
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I think one difference between the lists is Gifts vs Zenith. GIfts is more powerful than zenith in testing, however, it forces you to run different spells, that produce the same effect. It also makes you rely more on the grave (as for Calebs list). Gifts also pushes you to run the 4th color or 3rd(if you do not wish to run white), which seems to be ok for now, as I haven't run into an opening basic island yet...
Taos list is the basic skeleton of the entire deck. Everyone is entitled to tweak it to their playstyle and preference..but the concept remains.
One thing Ive noticed is that, whenever I zenith, I always look for a really good Green finisher, that can't be easily killed. As for now I can't seem to find any. Sun titan is white, grave titan is black.
I still run the 3 color build, as I think not running spot removal is a big mistake..where a simple dark confidant can beat you via card advantage. So for me its gbw for now... Gifts is incredibly strong, but further testing is needed..
@dakkonblackblade08
4 No rug in the top 8 of the last tournament in Manila is quite something, and you have to prepare for it... I suggest you test the basic deck first which is Taos list, and see the concepts of how it really works.. Don't make the mistake of testing it in the tournament itself, as there are tons of interactions and plays you might not want to do depending on your opponent. Then tweak it from there...as for me..
More testing is key to improving the deck..
Im pretty interested in the deck. If any of the german friends or other people are interested in going to GP Amsterdam let me know and maybe we could get some sort of playtest group going with this deck.
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