WTF is wrong with Wizards and why can't they print a decent legacy playable red card? I'm getting tired of seeing awesome cards in every other color while every red card printed is unplayable in legacy by way of being over-costed, under-powered, narrow, just plain useless, or all of the above.
Someone in the SCD for Snapcaster Mage made an excellent point that the card could very well have been printed in red, but of course they made it blue...just like most other decent cards in recent history.
Can anyone out there enlighten me on this subject? What was the last (non reprint) tournament level playable legacy card printed in red? What kinds of abilities and spells should be in red's domain but have been given to other colors? Are there any recently printed red spells that would be playable if the cost was reduced or the effect increased?
I'm just trying to get some idea as to what could possibly going on at Wizards in regard to red...
Goblin Guide?
It isn't as format defining/changing as MMS, but it is still really good and playable.
Whenever I see a kid in a wheelchair it makes me a little sad. Because I always think, "Gee, they could have used those same wheels to make a bike for a regular kid. What a waste."
Punishing Fire
Galvanic Blast
Goblin Guide
Kiln Fiend
Firespout
Guttural Response
Hellspark Elemental
Vexing Shusher
Countryside Crusher
Figure of Destiny
Taurean Mauler
Manamorphose
Volcanic Fallout
I just scanned magiccards.info for all red cards in Scars, Zendikar and Alara Block. This is what I came up with regarding cards that are actually getting played in Legacy.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
Standard has some fringe Legacy playables:
Arc Trail
Goblin Guide
Kargan Dragonlord
Lord of Shatterskull Pass
Moltensteel Dragon
Punishing Fire
Searing Blaze
Tuktuk Scrapper
Warren Instigator
Of those Punishing Fire, Goblin Guide and Warren Instigator probably make the biggest splashes in Legacy and still don't really compare to what other colors have gained recently.
Really what seems to keep Red worth playing in Legacy (outside of Goblins) is it's powerful hosers - REB/Pyro, Grim Lavamancer/Punishing Fire, Moon effects, Artifact destruction.
grim lavamancer.
Mental Misstep.
Originally Posted by Cavius The Great
You mentioned Goblins, but Aggro Loam is still a viable deck too. So is Zoo. Sure Zoo runs Grim Lavamancers, but they also run a bunch of other red spells.Really what seems to keep Red worth playing in Legacy (outside of Goblins) is it's powerful hosers - REB/Pyro, Grim Lavamancer/Punishing Fire, Moon effects, Artifact destruction.
Obviously, Koth would be pretty playable at 2R, not sure about Chandra though.
The problem with Red was Lightning Bolt in Standard. Now it has gone, the printing of cheap (read: Legacy playable) red spells attached with good utility is less dangerous, hope WotC will seize the chance.
Agreed on the Snapcaster Mage part.
Red's part of the color pie is pretty limited for Legacy use.
Burn spells and Goblins have already lots of competition, same goes for Pyroclasm effects. Decent LD effects as red's main disruption is doomed to suck thanks to Standard. (Random) tutor effects are also quite limited, just like Shunt/Fork effects.
This leaves us with red acceleration for combo decks.
I would be really nice to see a cheap, playable Planeswalker and some new, non-Goblin creatures that don't suck.
While Wizards is mindful of Legacy and Vintage, it would be safe to assume the majority of their design is for standard and limited. Considering this, red has got some very powerful cards recently, but very few have squeaked into being eternal playable. The second layer to consider, as you touched on, is the adherence to the color pie. It's difficult to overcome the status quo power of the burn and artifact destruction already available.
When it comes to creatures like Goblin Guide, Kiln Field, Keldon Marauders and Countryside Crusher, which might be on par with other aggressive creatures, they are easily passed over because of more powerful synergies in the available card pool. I think the proper question to ask considering the stability of multicolor mana bases is "Is this card playable if I also get access to Red Elemental Blast, Ancient Grudge, Lightning Bolt, Fire/Ice, Blood Moon etc?" Color wise, we can hope for more playable creatures, acceleration and non-basic hate, but the later is sort of self-sabotaging as monocolor has greater weaknesses. I think the problem is red's flavor lends itself to over-powered stand alone cards which must be modulated to standard power levels.
Have you guys tried out Chaos Warp? I actually love that card. It's a red Disenchant/Jace killer for God's sake. I'll never figure out why people aren't using that card.
Wheel of Fortune
On a bit more serious note: the last really "good" card in the rare slot: Grim Lavamancer followed by Burning Wish.
Goblin Guide is too specific IMO, and can end in giving the opponent an advantage, which isn't the definition of good. [the same is true for Chaos Warp]
...funny thing that I talked with my mate about this yesterday, and now there is a thread xD
Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells
:16:- (See, now Erratic Explosion's a deck)
Legendary Creature - Horror
Haste, Hexproof, Double Strike, Trample
Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells is indestructible.
Permanents you control can't be sacrificed or copied.
Whenever Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells attacks, defending player gets liver cancer (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)
13/13
Goblin guide has only ever been played in burn and in some hyper aggressive fringe zoo builds. Firestorm was played in a handful of blue decks a year or so ago, but has been scarce recently. Additionally, none of the cards in the list above are staples and most are barely playable.
I'd imagine if you create the same list for every other color you would get much more impressive results in terms of legacy impact.
It seems that the only real reason to play red in legacy is Red Blast and Pyroblast.
ROFL, If only this were true. Misstep is much better in blue decks than red :(
Progenitus
I completely agree with this. The problem here is that Grim Lavamancer was printed in Torment, Burning Wish in Judgment...both in 2002.
Guide, Spout, and to a lesser extent Crusher/Instigator because it's limited to Aggro Loam and Goblins respectively. Before that you'd have to go back to Onslaught block for Goblins and Torment for Lavamancer and before that... well poor Red just has shitty/dangerous mechanics that pushing them too much is dangerous ie Rite of Flame. LD is shit forevermore. Same with Fork-effects which have never been playable. You can't get much better than Lightning Bolt and that has been the marquee, nay the best, Red spell ever printed. That came out in ALPHA. How absolutely depressing. I don't even need to mention coin-flipping random trash that acts like a god damned albatross around Red's neck.
All I have to look forward too from new sets is maybe a decent Goblin or uh... yeah that's it.
Well, to be fair, Red probably has the best answer cards. Red Blasts, Ancient Grudge/Spree and Moon effects are very powerful. Unfortunately, those are sideboard cards and you still need 60 more.
Just a disgruntled Red mage's rant. It feels like power creep has completely passed over Red. :(
Edit: Silly me I forgot about Burning Wish.
Chaos Warp is decent but could have been so much better if the drawback was slightly less harsh, or if it had a reduced/alternate cost (like nearly every good blue or black card in recent history).
Red is by far the worst color in magic overall. If it wasnt for blasts and grim lavamancers red wouldnt be played much outside of 3rd color of zoo or in goblin.
In standard where red got pretty much every good red card but chains and POP and still isnt enought, Simple white cards like Timely Reinforcement totally ruins the RDW decks...
Bit weak that the best cards in red are the cards that hates blue or multicolored...
Progenitus is probly the latest best red card they have printed....
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