What was the last good RED card printed?

[phonics]

I think the problem with red is that traditionally it focused around chaos effects and land destruction effects, the former being unplayable outside of casual and the latter being essentially written off by R&D's philosophy. Red doesn't really have an identity the same way the other colors do. Red should focus more on momentary gain in advantage and speed, which is demonstrated in most of the memorable red decks (RDW, AIR, TES). Big dragons are cool and all to look at, which is great cause if you have them in your deck you will be looking at them a lot as they sit in your hand forever. Burn mechanic is super simple, it would be cool if they explored this with different interactions (like pyrostatic pillar). Also some like of land tapping mechanic for red would also be pretty cool to see, not as 'unfun' as straight up LD, but still able to provide disruption.

[f|i[p]]

At leasst on the bright side....

Red always had goblins in the top tier decks... its only lately that its gone down to tier 2...

Red had mono colored decks that was built around its color...
Red had goblins... which was a top contender for the longest time..
Green had.. elves... which was tier 2 the whole time...
White had... err.... Hmmmmm.. they had......

As for stompy lists...
Red had dragon stompy
green had their own stompy variant with nat order..
white had stax...

Red has always been splashed, with green.. and there are tons of red cards in zoo.. bolt chain, lavamancer, ape...
you also see red in aggro loam.. with assault and sometimes punishing fires...even burning wish..
you also see it in combo.. belcher or even tendrills with burning wish...

However I think country side crusher is a very good red card, grows bigger than goyf.. and draws you a business spell the whole time while getting larger...

its only now that Ive seen green and white in the top tier decks for the longest time... maybe too long...

[bruizar]

Magus was printed in Future sight. Also printed in Future Sight:

Tombstalker
Bridge from Below
The Pacts
Tarmogoyf

Well at least red got Shah of Naar Isle and Steamflogger Boss

YAY...

Lets hope contraptions become an exclusive red thing, and lets hope it will be good (if we ever live to see the day of contraptions)

[Sims]

The last good red card printed was Mental Misstep obviously... How is this even a question?

[Zilla]

The last good red card printed was Mental Misstep obviously... How is this even a question?

Already been said earlier in the thread, and it was correctly responded that it's not red. However good it may be for red, it gives blue an even bigger boost.

[Redshift]

But yeah I second that red should get more playable cards or something. Hell, they could probably print act of treason at 1R or even R and it would be fair.

Act of treason would actually be playable and really good at R. Like a red version of STP that would require a little set-up as removal but could also function in an aggro capacity. Seems very red-ish.

I think the problem with red is that traditionally it focused around chaos effects and land destruction effects, the former being unplayable outside of casual and the latter being essentially written off by R&D's philosophy. Red doesn't really have an identity the same way the other colors do. Red should focus more on momentary gain in advantage and speed, which is demonstrated in most of the memorable red decks (RDW, AIR, TES).... Burn mechanic is super simple, it would be cool if they explored this with different interactions (like pyrostatic pillar). Also some like of land tapping mechanic for red would also be pretty cool to see, not as 'unfun' as straight up LD, but still able to provide disruption.

I agree with this. To play up the LD aspect without actually having LD, something like mana short for 1R. Or maybe some spells that punish people for drawing a lot of mana or casting big/powerfull spells (much like counterspells do). Something like Parallectric Feedback for R or RR would make playing red less about throwing burn at the opponent's face and more about choosing the right time to strike with a killing blow.

[Sims]

Already been said earlier in the thread, and it was correctly responded that it's not red. However good it may be for red, it gives blue an even bigger boost.

That's what I get for skimming the thread at work. But in either case I stand by my assertion, even if it isn't truly red and gives blue a bigger boost. As a major red player, I've come to accept that in Legacy red will always be shafted. At least until they unban Recruiter.

[(nameless one)]

The problem with Recruiter is that it doesn't really help Red. It just helps Goblins in general.

The thing is, what are we really expecting from Red? Draw manipulation? More efficient beaters? Hatebears? Disruption?

[dahcmai]

I'd like some red hatebears. They really don't have crap besides burn, quick hasty critters, and overcosted crap no one plays.

I was really happy when they printed that Kargan Dragonlord. Finally a half assed mid rangey creature. He was still kind of meh, but it was a nice attempt.

[ykpon]

The thing is, what are we really expecting from Red? Draw manipulation? More efficient beaters? Hatebears? Disruption?

Good cmc2 creatures which aren't as random as Kiln Fiend but also aren't great in Zoo. Probably sth like RR 5/5 with Imperiosaur ability.

Or powerful multicolor spells which wouldn't significantly strengthen any existent tier 1 decks. Sth like triple discard for BR or cantriping Lava Spike for UR.

Or a land tapping for RR which can be only spent to pay for red spells and abilities.

Or just overview a colorpie to force some kind of an absolutely new red effect which isn't as lousy as Shatter and Stone Rain. It's never too late to fix it.

[Rizso]

As long as magic have existed there are still no good ones of thoes crazy red creatures that brings a knife to a gun fight creature, the ones ofc that have to attack every turn. Instead some of thoes creatures are just vanila 2/2s for 2... Where are the berserks, maniacs and blood thirsty violent guys? Where is the rage?

Take a look on Jackal Familiar and Mogg Flunkies for example, why are thoes type of creature below the curve with a such drawback?

An other example of red creature ability that goes into scared large creatures is Orgg, A scared large beast bigger then most. But with red, its just a 6/6 for 5!

Still think there is alot of design space in red that hasnt really been taped for a many years now. Really feels they are only really puting out new burn spells. Just look how many burn spells that have printed the latest years.

[GradStudentGuy]

Red has indeed gotten the short end of the stick it has burn, a few good tutors (burning wish and gamble), and blue hate. Wizard’s has put red’s current focus on aggro and fast mana acceleration. I doubt they will push the mana acceleration, even though a “red” dark ritual would see play. Wizards also can’t print creatures as efficient as Wild Nacatl easily. Basically red has no room to grow in its current position. I for one would like to see more random effect cards printed like gamble. These cards are flavorful and can allow for powerful interactions.

[(nameless one)]

I wouldn't mind seeing Red with strong artifact connection. I mean blue already has the good stuff.

Isn't red the original color for artifice anyways? Maybe more Goblin Welder type of creatures? Maybe an Imperial Tutor that searches for artifact creatures instead.

Speaking of artifacts:

White should be good with equipments.

Blue should be good with non-creature artifacts.

Red should be good with artifact creatures.

Make sense?

[Nonex]

I would expect:

- Land destruction as a complement - much like life gain is too weak alone but not when associated to things like combat damage. When was the last time Stone Rain was good? Deus of Calamity could be a rough start

- Randomness where all the possible outcomes are acceptable - example: flip a coin; win = destroy target nonbasic land, lose = put that land on top of its owner's library

- Explore removal possibilites - Chaos Warp is already a step in the right direction. I wouldn't mind a red Path to Exile where the creature's controller gets a Mountain from your library, for example

- More blue, control and combo hate - Moon effects and cards like Pyrostatic Pillar or Sulfuric Vortex are great. I also find Choke to be the best example of hate not usable by blue. A red Choke/Moon saying something like "All Islands are Mountains" could be given a try

- Keep the level on direct damage - Lightning Bolt, Pyroclasm, Grim Lavamancer and Firespout are already something. Perhaps explore more hate in this form, like the aforementioned Parallectric Feedback, or like Sudden Impact and Runeflare Trap. Uncounterable and/or unpreventable direct damage is another form of hate; Combust is a good start, but not enough.

- Fork, Misdirection, and steal effects - they could be taken a second look. These effects seem weak in Legacy right now, since only Misdirection itself and Twincast (that is, the blue counterparts) are played, and just barely. Perhaps a repeteable engine a la Grim Lavamancer?

[Tammit67]

Was bloodbraid elf really so long ago?

[Amon Amarth]

The problem with Recruiter is that it doesn't really help Red. It just helps Goblins in general.

The thing is, what are we really expecting from Red? Draw manipulation? More efficient beaters? Hatebears? Disruption?

Which is to say that historically the only popular/good mono-Red deck is Goblins. I guess you could make a case for Burn but it appears that Mental Misstep has hurt it quite a bit. The reason why Recruiter (and the other cards I suggested) is an interesting card to consider for unbanning is that while that card is really strong it also isn't useable in Blue decks.

I would like some things that are flavorful and powerful. They haven't really printed any Red hatebears with the exception of Vexing Shusher and Burning-Tree Shaman and the latter is a bit too expensive too see much play and it's part Green as well. That would help push a mono-Red deck that wasn't Goblins. Red just needs better creatures in general. Other than that I'm not sure what else needs pushing. There are some good randomness based mechanics such as goblin Guide whose drawback can be a bonus if you don't know what your opponent is playing.

[(nameless one)]

What about Chaos Warp? I think it is a great card. But is it too random?

[Lancer]

What about Chaos Warp? I think it is a great card. But is it too random?

I would love to pick up a playset but the card is also too costly ($$) for a random effect; so I'm hoping (and I'm assuming others are also) waiting for the card to be reprinted in a real set then the card price will drop.

Goblin Guide is the best replacement to Mogg Fanatic (I picked up 2 playsets)

some burn players think Magma Jet is the best 2cc burn spell in the deck (I dont like it though) I believe the best and most recent burn spell is Volcanic Fallout.

[phonics]

would something like a non-basic land manabarbs for rr be decent? red has decent cards for splashing, but isnt strong enough to be a main color most of the time.

[Sims]

To be quite honest, I want RDW to be playable again. Red mana denial was one of my favorite decks back in old extended. Tangel Wires, Molten/Stone rains, Cursed Scroll, Ports, Wastes, burn... Finish people off with shit like Fledgling Dragon.. That deck was the shit.

Yeah, I'm that guy. I like mana denial as a strategy. I used to play stax. But they've basically stated they hate LD and have taken great steps to actively remove it from the game. The only LD effects that are around are severely overcosted in newer sets. I would LOVE a red Sinkhole, but that will never happen.

Wizards! Print some form of hatebear for Red, a better bolt, or bring back LD! >_<