[Deck] Pox

[bowvamp]

My current list after Innistrad comes out:
//Main Deck:

1 Necroplasm
1 Nihilith
3 Tombstalker

4 Liliana
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Mental Misstep
4 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox

3 Mishra's Factory
12 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

//Sideboard:
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Do or Die
4 Duress
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sun Droplet


Changes:
-2 MM
-2 Swamp
-4 Disfigure
+4 Dark Ritual
+4 Liliana

I consider this to be a new age of pox. Dark Ritual is absolutely necessary with a bomb like liliana, if it hits play the first turn of the game, the opponent has a very hard time recovering. Factories and Nihilith are my two best outs against Jace TMS. That and preventing them from ever getting to 4 mana ;P

[bruizar]

I don't think I can get behind Sinkhole.

Sinkhole is the biggest trap ever. Very cute to play with beta sinkholes, but sadly not good enough.

[Koby]

Mana source [26]:
10 11 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual

Attrition [26]
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 2 Pox
4 Ratchet Bomb

Beatsticks [8]
3 Nether Spirit
3 Tombstalker
2 The Rack Crucible of Worlds

Some changes after playtesting against Stoneblade. People are correct in suggesting more land, it's very much needed. The Rack was quickly replaced with Crucible to take advantage of Mishra's Factory/Wasteland recursion.

Liliana is a BOMB, 100% for sure remaining in the deck. Nether Spirit also worked well, but often got StP'd, which isn't a strike against it, but shows how useful it is for the deck. It acts as a Maze of Ith and protects Liliana to a degree.

I saw someone post Necroplasm, which is okay but not great. I prefer Ratchet Bomb in that it can kill Jace 2.0, and Standstill. Sinkhole plays fine, but I may cut 1 out for another Swamp/Urborg.

[Amon Amarth]

How often is your opponent going to find and resolve Jace against a deck like this? That seems unlikely.

[iamfrightenedtoo]

How often is your opponent going to find and resolve Jace against a deck like this? That seems unlikely.

often, very often. you still have to resolve discard, and you still have to draw it. and trust me, it is easier to have answers for the Jace, because once it is in play, you cannot deal with it.

damnation is better than ratchet bomb, and Hex is better than Ratchet bomb, i realize that, those are two slots over one ratchet, but Hex is also a chump blocker with first strike.

i do not know who said it but, sinkhole is a trap, it is not good. too slow, where there are more versatile cards available

[Koby]

Hex? I think there is something lost in translation. Ratchet Bomb deals with Artifacts too, which is important. The key is not to play high cc cards and be able to play all your cards with 3 mana (lands or Ritual).

Swamp, Ritual, Liliana is a very strong play in the current metagame.

[Amon Amarth]

The more I think about the better Pox gets. NO RUG and Stoneblade seem ill-equipped to handle all of the disruption that this deck has at it's disposal. Both rely on specific spells resolving and sticking and are ill equipped to attrition you out when you are able to keep up the pressure with Liliana. Liliana is insane because no one is playing Spell Pierce. Yeah, they can Force her but FoW is pretty bad against any deck that packs Hymn to Tourach. I'm officially excited. Pox looks like it can be a really player in the post-Innistrad metagame. It doesn't hurt that I'm in love with mono-black either. :)

[iamfrightenedtoo]

Hex? I think there is something lost in translation. Ratchet Bomb deals with Artifacts too, which is important. The key is not to play high cc cards and be able to play all your cards with 3 mana (lands or Ritual).

Swamp, Ritual, Liliana is a very strong play in the current metagame.

the only things i have problems with in pox, (and it has been this way since Stronghold) are decks like zoo, which deal out large amounts of creatures for a little amount of mana.

the other problem i have, is a resolved mind sculptor. the only real efficient answer to mind sculptor i have found is Vampire Hexmage, we call it simply hex where i come from.

Vampire Hexmage fits nicely into the deck, kills off jace, kills of chalice. i have to worry about chalice in my metagame. another awesome thing with running Vampire Hexmage, is you can then easily run Dark Depths, and not really have to rely on the combo.

i was going to run either pox or affinity at the Pittsburgh Star city open, and got suckered into running a friend's train wreck deck, the whole time i played, i wished i had Vampire Hexmage, because out of the six matches i played, i ran into five decks that ran ran Mild Sculptor, two of which also ran Elspeth. the sixth deck was zoo.

decks like zoo, are just impossible. to be effective you need to cast two pox, which puts you at 8, and in an very vulnerable state in which your a creature swing, and two burn spells away from losing, and with zoo, all that is very easy. 8 pox, 4 edict spells, and maybe 4 more, that is 16 spells against creatures, and only 4 of which can get multiple creatures. this is where ratchet bomb comes in handy, because the best zoo decks are one drop decks, and you can tag multiple creatures, IDK i just like damnation better there. Ratchet bomb is awesome, and the best destruction card for mono colored decks, but again, on turn 2 and above, you can wipe the board of creatures, on turn one, you can start the ratchet bomb, but it needs multiple turns to go off, and by then zoo can deal 12 damage without trying.

let me save a lot of you a lot of time, stop. pox is not worth it, it is the best magic card ever printed next to Yawgmoth's will, but the deck as a whole, has two problems.
the first problem, it is slow, always, it cannot be fast, the manabase and the main card do not allow it. the second problem, talk all you like about any creature, there is no effective win condition. any win condition you could possibly want to put into the deck make you hesitate to actually play Pox, and the deck is called Pox. if you are going to be hesitant to play the marque card, why play it at all. Nihilith- phyrexian obliterator, tomb stalker, all die when you pox. nether traitor, nether spirit, bloodghast, all can be brought back into play but two of them are not effective because you cannot use them to block anything that is played.

cards that are kill conditions that are not effected by playing pox -the rack, cursed scroll, underworld dreams, magrim, , phyrexian totem, chimeric idol, (i have tried all of them over the years) are too slow. they are way too slow.

i really like zombie infestation, because i use Ensnaring bridge, and in late games it is easier to dump useless cards to the infestation. but Liliana will solve this problem.

also, in this same post i talk about ensnaring bridge, and dark depths combo, i use right of consumption.

[bowvamp]

I think that your analysis of Pox is incorrect. You yourself admit that the attrition style of play is what is necessary, yet you remark on how casting pox can hurt you if you jump in with a finisher in the early game as if that's what you're supposed to do. Tombstalker and Nihilith aren't meant to survive pox. They're meant to come down after a pox and kill the opponent. Necroplasm is noticeably absent from the list of kill-cons you have tried. It adds a little bit of inevitability, and it does 9 damage over four turns as opposed to 8 (or 6 if your opponent is above 10 life) with bloodghast.

Rukcus, if you want another Urborg, why not just cut a swamp first.

I'm going to test the following changes:
-3 IoK
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Cry of Contrition

This spread will help get rid of Jace. I know, 1 ofs, I'm just testing them out in the same list so I can get a feel for them.

[Qweerios]

I play "Pox" without Pox too. I think the 1/3 Life and 1/3 Hand shrink shuts down too many options for this deck and simply isn't worth it. Smallpox is by far superior because its multiple disruptions come down a turn quicker and everything is limited to 1 and can be played around quite easely when prepared for it. In my testing of Lilliana I found that:

-Nyxathid complemented Tombstalker really well when going "Discard Pox";
-Playing either Crucible of Worlds or LotL is essential to Pox's success;
-Phyrexian Arena is very potent once Pox is dismissed (even more than Bob);
-Splashing White or Green for Vindicate/Ghostly Prison or Tarmogoyf/LotL/Living Wish doesn't strain the manabase much;
-Mox Diamond and/or Chalice are viable options;

Now the deck might resemble Loam or Hex/Depths more but I think it is a step in the right direction because those decks can abuse the drawbacks of various disruption while Pox only whistands them. The next step for Pox is to evolve into Smallpox. It may "sound" silly but it is only its counterintuitive nature. Pox is ultimately a control deck and Smallpox is by far the most controlling card.

P.S.: Lilliana is a bomb, play 4 without hesitation.

[bowvamp]

@Qweerios: I would agree with you on the land recursion, but disagree with you on Pox being useless. I think that you're only evaluating the cards in terms of losses on your side of the board. Pox has a much higher chance to gain card advantage than smallpox when I play it. If my opponent is up to four mana (oh crap, this may not be immediately recognizable to most, but this could be the beginning of the end for Pox) a single pox sets them back two lands. If I've got liliana down, I can make my opponent round up, then liliana them.

Smallpox destroys less resources = the less controlling card.
Splashes get harder when you try to add manlands and wastelands to them.
Zoo is handled better than Burn, Goblins, or Merfolk to name a few.

Sure pox hurts a lot for both players, but how else would you be confident in your finishers?

[unicoerner]

Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [JGC] Mishra's Factory
4 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
9 [SOM] Swamp (3)

// Creatures
2 [MM] Nether Spirit
1 [ON] Undead Gladiator

// Spells
4 [TSP] Smallpox
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (2)
2 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [5E] Dark Ritual
4 [U] Sinkhole
4 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
4 [INN] Liliana of the Veil
4 [NPH] Mental Misstep
4 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
2 [OD] Innocent Blood

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [OD] Innocent Blood
SB: 4 [WL] Null Rod
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 [4E] The Rack

The 2 Innocent Bloods and Undead Gladiator were Poxes, but i found them to be the 3 worst cards in the deck. Do you have other suggestions?

Vs decks heavy on creatures i board out all my creas + 2 cards and go 3 Bridge+2 Rack.

I, too, think that Burn and Zoo could be hard to beat, so for Zoo i have 4 Bombs + 2 Bloods (4). Not sure what to do against Burn if it even matters.

[Koby]

@Qweerios: I would agree with you on the land recursion, but disagree with you on Pox being useless. I think that you're only evaluating the cards in terms of losses on your side of the board. Pox has a much higher chance to gain card advantage than smallpox when I play it. If my opponent is up to four mana (oh crap, this may not be immediately recognizable to most, but this could be the beginning of the end for Pox) a single pox sets them back two lands. If I've got liliana down, I can make my opponent round up, then liliana them.

Smallpox destroys less resources = the less controlling card.
Splashes get harder when you try to add manlands and wastelands to them.
Zoo is handled better than Burn, Goblins, or Merfolk to name a few.

Sure pox hurts a lot for both players, but how else would you be confident in your finishers?

LOL Pox Magic Numbers!

19, 16, 13, 10, 7, 4, and 2.
These deplete the greatest amount of resources per Pox, based on rounding.

[bowvamp]

Ok, now it seems that I'm testing IoK against Thoughtseize.
-1 Cry of Contrition
+1 IoK

The other idea I'm trying as far as Dark Ritual decks go is a MBC deck with the idea of going for Volrath's Dungeon and Dark Confidant. OFC this is a different deck than traditional Pox (doesn't even have a card with pox in its name), but if I find anything I will try and apply it to pox.

[Smea.gol.lum]

Here's the list I'll probably play once Innistrad is legal:

Beaters:
3 Tombstalker
3 Nether Spirit

Attrition:
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Culling Scales
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Smallpox
2 Innocent Blood
2 Dismember

Mana:
3 Dark Ritual
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
6 Swamps

SB:
3 Pithing Needle (primary target is Jace)
3 Ratchet Bomb (catch-all)
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Nihilith Spellbomb
2 Extirpate
3 Open slots

I'm not sure about my sideboard yet, other debatable slots are the 2/2 split of Innocent Blood and Dismember and the 1/1 split of Thoughtseize and IoK.
I'm still searching an 11th and 12th win-con, let's hope that Innistrad provides another bomb like Liliana :P

[catmint]

How about running 3 entomb to abuse liliana as good as possible.
With [card]Vengeful Pharao[/card] [card]Squee, Goblin Nabob [/card] and Nether Spirit?

[bowvamp]

Add an "s" to the end of your card tags like so: Vengeful Pharaoh Squee, Goblin Nabob and Nether Spirit.

As far as your suggestion goes, sure try it out. The people on the concurrent discussion of pox on a forum which shall not be named seem to like it. Then again, I think it's bull.

@Smea.gol.lum:
SDT doesn't work very well in Pox. The fetches don't dodge Pox if that's what you're thinking. They pretty much just constrain your mana base, make stifle effective, and damage you. Dismember is Disfigure -4 life in most cases. If you want to be able to kill more than with Dismember, you could run Vendetta or increase consistency with a full set of Innocent Blood. Culling Scales could hurt you more than your opponent. How about Withering Wisps? Since you don't really care about going over 4 mana, it seems like an OK option. Consider Volrath's Dungeon I think this might be good in Poxless. Dark Ritual loses a lot of usefulness as a 3-of.

I've also been considering MD or SB'ing the following cards:

//to handle creatures
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Maze of Ith
Ice Floe

[jin]

Sinkhole is the biggest trap ever. Very cute to play with beta sinkholes, but sadly not good enough.

Agreed. Too many lands to play around sinkholes.. also sinkhole is terrible when they are just waiting to not fetch out.. I feel that contamination is just so much better..

How often is your opponent going to find and resolve Jace against a deck like this? That seems unlikely.

very often... 2 fetchlands and some colourless mana usually is what does it.. when you play pox effects, you lose cards yourself.. it's inherent card disadvantage... if you play those cards aggressively, you'll naturally have less threats to deal with them .. so you have to either discard them.. or rid them of lands.. either way jace is going to eventually drop either off a top deck.. or naturally through holding fetchlands..

decks like zoo, are just impossible. to be effective you need to cast two pox, which puts you at 8, and in an very vulnerable state in which your a creature swing, and two burn spells away from losing, and with zoo, all that is very easy. 8 pox, 4 edict spells, and maybe 4 more, that is 16 spells against creatures, and only 4 of which can get multiple creatures. this is where ratchet bomb comes in handy, because the best zoo decks are one drop decks, and you can tag multiple creatures, IDK i just like damnation better there. Ratchet bomb is awesome, and the best destruction card for mono colored decks, but again, on turn 2 and above, you can wipe the board of creatures, on turn one, you can start the ratchet bomb, but it needs multiple turns to go off, and by then zoo can deal 12 damage without trying.

Against Zoo, I usually board out Pox and board in sweepers like Perish and 1-2 consuming vapors.. it's not so bad... but it's still not great....

SDT doesn't work very well in Pox

I disagree. You are in topdeck mode a lot of the time and if you don't have SDT, then you'll likely lose due to your opponents' being able to manipulate the top of their library better than you. I'm tempted to go to 3 SDT as well since they seem so important during the aftermath of bigPox/smallPox..

[Smea.gol.lum]

@Smea.gol.lum:
SDT doesn't work very well in Pox. The fetches don't dodge Pox if that's what you're thinking. They pretty much just constrain your mana base, make stifle effective, and damage you. Dismember is Disfigure -4 life in most cases. If you want to be able to kill more than with Dismember, you could run Vendetta or increase consistency with a full set of Innocent Blood. Culling Scales could hurt you more than your opponent. How about Withering Wisps? Since you don't really care about going over 4 mana, it seems like an OK option. Consider Volrath's Dungeon I think this might be good in Poxless. Dark Ritual loses a lot of usefulness as a 3-of.

SDT is one of the most important cards in Pox in my opinion as it adds a lot of consistency to the deck.
It helps to find the right cards in the right moments, is very important in topdeck-mode and provides a nice soft-lock in conjunction with Culling Scales (which can't hurt me at all cause there aren't any 1- or 2-drops in my list).
Fetchlands are not there to dodge Pox, they let you look at fresh new top3 cards with SDT and power out Tombstalker earlier.
The reason for my 2/2 split of Dismember and Innocent Blood was the ability to remove creatures at instant speed which is good against Aether Vial and frees up the mana in your own turn as well as kills the creature that you really want to rather than making an opponent sacrifice a random creature.
However, I may very well go back to 4 Innocent Blood, as life loss could be a too big issue.
I included Dark Ritual as a 3-of because I had the feeling that there were more situations in which I drew it in the middle-/late-game and didn't need it than those in which I would have liked it in my opening hand.
I also don't want to cut it at all due to the possibility of T1 Liliana, which is just brutal.
Volrath's Dungeon is too expensive and does too little.
Withering Wisps is a nice card, but there are too many nonbasic lands(Factory, Wasteland) to be able to support it reliably.

[Smea.gol.lum]

@Smea.gol.lum:
SDT doesn't work very well in Pox. The fetches don't dodge Pox if that's what you're thinking. They pretty much just constrain your mana base, make stifle effective, and damage you. Dismember is Disfigure -4 life in most cases. If you want to be able to kill more than with Dismember, you could run Vendetta or increase consistency with a full set of Innocent Blood. Culling Scales could hurt you more than your opponent. How about Withering Wisps? Since you don't really care about going over 4 mana, it seems like an OK option. Consider Volrath's Dungeon I think this might be good in Poxless. Dark Ritual loses a lot of usefulness as a 3-of.

SDT is one of the most important cards in Pox in my opinion as it adds a lot of consistency to the deck.
It helps to find the right cards in the right moments, is very important in topdeck-mode and provides a nice soft-lock in conjunction with Culling Scales (which can't hurt me at all cause there aren't any 1- or 2-drops in my list).
Fetchlands are not there to dodge Pox, they let you look at fresh new top3 cards with SDT and power out Tombstalker earlier.
The reason for my 2/2 split of Dismember and Innocent Blood was the ability to remove creatures at instant speed which is good against Aether Vial and frees up the mana in your own turn as well as kills the creature that you really want to rather than making an opponent sacrifice a random creature.
However, I may very well go back to 4 Innocent Blood, as life loss could be a too big issue.
I included Dark Ritual as a 3-of because I had the feeling that there were more situations in which I drew it in the middle-/late-game and didn't need it than those in which I would have liked it in my opening hand.
I also don't want to cut it at all due to the possibility of T1 Liliana, which is just brutal.
Volrath's Dungeon is too expensive and does too little.
Withering Wisps is a nice card, but there are too many nonbasic lands(Factory, Wasteland) to be able to support it reliably.