[Deck] Aggro Loam

[BantFTW]

I don't know if I want to share it lol :D
I don't play assault, Firespout main and some spot removal.
The list works really great. Only can't do much against NOPRO exept race it so. The problem just is that (like RUG then, it is the most played atm, 4 in the top 8 SCG). And then there is reanimator wich is quite hard to.

What you think of the sideboard (I'm not playing burning wishes)

And would you also play a maze of ith? I'm also palying 4x mishra's factory so maybe drop 1 and play a maze of ith?
And side maybe a Phyrexian Metamorph to copy progenitus?

ty

[sdematt]

If you're playing Knight, Maze is fine.

If you're playing Red:

3x Extirpate
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
3x REB/pyroblast
2x perish
1x worm harvest (control and aggro. If you can put it out on T4 to create blockers, it's good)
2x firespout (also 2x main) maybe to much overkill with also perishes
2x Krosan Grip/Ancient Grudge

-Matt

[TheShaun]

If you're playing Knight, Maze is fine.

If you're playing Red:

3x Extirpate
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
3x REB/pyroblast
2x perish
1x worm harvest (control and aggro. If you can put it out on T4 to create blockers, it's good)
2x firespout (also 2x main) maybe to much overkill with also perishes
2x Krosan Grip/Ancient Grudge

-Matt

I've been working on a good sideboard strategy for this deck and keep running into questions that I can't figure out. I'm pretty new to it so I figured I'd ask your opinions on these questions.

Are graveyard decks beatable without mass graveyard hate? (Leyline/Tormod's/etc.) Extirpate is nice but not on the power level of a Leyline.

Looking at a sideboard like this, what all would come in vs NO-RUG? Metamorph, Perish, REB? I've been trying to figure out how to make this matchup work better, but I either sideboard so much that the maindeck loses its balance.

Are Lavamancers worth inclusion for aggro? Perish seems required, but it seems like Lavamancer is competing with Firespout for a slot, and I have a hard time thinking that Firespout is better. The only thing that I'd think Firespout is better against is zoo with it's multiple 3 toughness dudes, but Lavamancer can get there against them decently too.

I was also wondering how it goes when you guys try bringing in targeted discard spells for the combo matchup. It's obviously a poor match regardless, but buying a turn might be enough?

[sdematt]

You have better matchups to worry about than combo (unless you're the LA meta, shich is basically all combo). Unless you can dedicate 2 Extirpate, 4 REB, and 4 Discard slots to the board, it's not happening very often.

Extirpate is decent in that matchup because you can Extirpate away a tutor (Infernal) or something like Rite of Flame to slow them down (or Extirpate to stop the IGG loops).

Graveyard based decks are beatable without mass grave hate, but Extirpate has different uses. It's relevant in the combo matchup, it's great against any Loam based deck, and can remove stuff in the graveyard. It also can't be countered or bounced, which Leyline can. Extirpate isn't as good against Reanimator, that's why I'm running the 3 Leylines and the 3 REB. The REB's hopefully either kill Jin or counter SnT, but Extirpate can also surprise buttsex their Reanimation target (usually Jin).

Thrun is quite good in the removal heavy matchups if you plan to see them.

Firespout is fine, but again, no recursion. Lavamancer you can always bring back with Stronghold. Tony's been having decent success with 2-3 Lavamancers if I recall.

Against NO RUG, you want these in the main: Perish, Assault, Fires, Darkblast, REB (if you have the slots to take out, use it to counter key Submerges, Cliques). Pulse is probably something to take out.

Against Jace, I always bring out Crusher (since it either eats removal, or gets bounced and I lose tons of value). Thrun is really good in this case, as is Fires.

Krosan Grip/Grudge are also super good. If you can, run either a 2/1 or a 1/2 split of Grip/Grudge. It really helps in the UW Stoneblade matchup.

In any Clique based matchup, make sure you play tight. Don't keep Fires in your hand without 2 mana up, and don't Dredge Loam during your Draw phase if you can. I played a long 2-0 against Stoneblade, and you just have to try and crush them by cutting off their SFM plan, and then grinding out Loam. Once Assault lands, just make sure you never lose your Loam.

-Matt

[sauce]

Alright, in my testing, I have happily found the natural order matchup to be hugely in our favor.s But I have to ask, do you guys take out devastating dreams for game 2 and 3? I went -2 DD -3 Sesimic +3 Duress +2 perish, this worked ok, but I am feeling like DD is sort of important.

that's a good sb strategy in that matchup.

[sdematt]

I went Crushing today and destroyed me some Stoneblade. Post board it got a *tad* worse, since he brought in a ton of grave-hate, but I still got there.

I Won't be going to the Mirkwood Cup tomorrow (sorry lads) due to the September 11th anniversary. In case some random hurts some people in NYC, I don't want to be stuck in small-town Washington for a few days. But, send Anton my regards. Sorry Jeremy and others!

Also, I managed to get the 666th post on this thread. The mark of the beast!

-Matt

[BantFTW]

lol dude :)

And euhm,k I play firespout main because that's mostly enough.
If you play DD and it get's countered, you get so much tempoless and you have less cards,
only bad things. While a firespout does enough against the aggro decks (that's why you play them) so I think DD only brings problems...

Also, is discard so good in the matchup against NO :O?

[sdematt]

Discard is fine only when they don't have 4 mana. Discard doens't stop topdecking into NO as well.

Discard is better against Combo decks, like Reanimator (to take Reanimation spell) or TES (to take...well, something). Natural Order is easy to topdeck, especially with Sylvan Library, so make sure you kill Sylvan Library if you can.

-Matt

[BantFTW]

I don't really play enchantment removal, but I just play 2x Ee mainboard that I can get back with lands.
Woudn't glacial chasm sideboard be good to :O? Or waht do you think of one maze of ith random or something like it :O?

[Richard Cheese]

Went 2-0-2 at our local event yesterday with my 4c build. Despite the crappy looking record, it got me 4th place, and I was pretty happy with the way the list ran. I'll post a bit more later.

[BantFTW]

playing this atm :)


1 Badlands
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Bayou
3 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Forgotten Cave
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tropical Island
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Terravore
4 Mox Diamond
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Life from the Loam
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Terminate
2 Go for the Throat
2 Firespout
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Worm Harvest
SB: 3 Perish
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 2 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 Shattering Spree

what do we think of it, sideboard to much cards atm but yeah we'll see :)
Hard matchups are just combo the others are good matchups^^

[Richard Cheese]

I don't see Crushers in that list, is the 4x Terravore a typo?

Edit: Looking more closely I see that you're going for something a bit different here, but here are a few thoughts (from an Aggro Loam noob, so take them with a grain of salt):

*Crusher: I get that Terravore is usually bigger, but I believe the whole point of Crusher is that in a deck with 26+ lands, you need a way to get to your business spells, and in that regard he acts like a pseudo-tutor.

*You might want to consider dropping Chalice, as nuts as it can be on T1, that situation happens so rarely that it isn't really worth it to devote 4 slots to and have the dead draws in the mid-late game

*Your list also has a lot of colorless-producing lands for wanting access to 4 colors. Granted I haven't had problems getting the mana I need in an admittedly greedier list, but I also only have 5 lands that don't produce colors.

[BantFTW]

nop, crusher s good but terravore can raise a progenitus much faster and is better because it has trample to^^ I just think he's better, he probably won't turn bigger but mostly I get to lategame and drop a terravore and win with it... the trample is just much better than the landability crusher has.
I also don't play any assaults, if I got problems with creatures I've got spotremoval and EE and also firespout wich is 10x better than a DD because that if it get's countered you don't have any carddisadventage.

I don't know what's your oponion but I would like to hear it :)

[BantFTW]

First I was playing a loam deck with alot of turn 1 drops, but I just want the chalice cause of the things I can counter. My list is to slow for gobblins/zoo and chalice is also really really good against combo so to have something mainboard against taht is always good. And I'm mostly so lucky that I can go for it turn 1, but even turn 2 it's good enough...

[Richard Cheese]

Counting on being lucky is not usually a great strategy for winning consistently. I think you're still missing the point of Crusher, and might want to go and re-read what I said. Forget how big he gets. If you crush away 4 lands before you hit a spell, that's four turns of dead draws that you just avoided.

He also ignores most grave hate except for Leyline, and never conflicts with Loam.

[BantFTW]

True, I'll test him again and we'll see, what you think of the sideboard :O?

EDIT: you want to share your list?

ty
BantFTW

EDIT 2: lol playing them atm and they're quite good, playing 2x terravore and 2x crusher :)
and chalice is still good against every matchup

[Antonius]

almost got there again. Lost round one to Hive Mind then won four straight then got paired down (of course) in the sixth round and infuriatingly lost to Elves, which we normally beat five out of six times. Game one I use bolt and pulse to kill symbiotes (I have to). So, he has six mana and one card in hand, course he rips the fourth land, casts regal force, draws four cards, including glimpse and all the good shit necessary to combo off. Game two, I send back a seven with no removal then send back a six with no land and get stuck with a five thats just three lands and two loams. he snap keeps the nuts.

seriously fuck hive mind.

[Richard Cheese]

Here's the list I'm running ATM:



2 Taiga
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Forgotten Cave
2 Plateau
1 Bayou
2 Badlands
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Wasteland
3 Life from the Loam
4 Dark Confidant
4 Countryside Crusher
4 Mox Diamond
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Seismic Assault
3 Burning Wish
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Worm Harvest
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Arid Mesa
2 Beast Within
1 Devastating Dreams
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Tariff
SB: 2 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Perish
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Devastating Dreams
SB: 1 Firespout


I've tried numerous builds, including RGb, with/without Fires/Grove, Bolt, Lavamancer, etc. I'll be the first to admit that I haven't tested any single build extensively (I have a bad habit of playing a different deck at every event), but so far this has been my favorite build.

This weekend I took it to 2-0-2, good enough for 4th out of 16. Here's a quick report:

Round 1 against Mono Blue Control
I don't really know if this is a traditional MUC list, but it's basically a shitload of counters with Shackles and Vendillion Cliques and a couple bomby creatures. I lost game 1 by running out a Crusher too early and hoping he wouldn't be able to drop another land to activate shackles.

Won the next two basically because he had land troubles, too many game 2 and not enough game 3.

Round 2 vs. Dredge
Game 1 he mulled to 4 but started out pretty well with a Coliseum into Breakthrough. Luckily he didn't hit much action with his dredges, and big dudes got there.

Game 2 he started out with an Imp and started dredging immediately. I opened with a Bog in hand and got a Knight into play as well, so I wasn't too worried. He wasn't dredging much action so I held onto my Bog, and he managed to get a 13/13 troll into play before I nuked his yard, but I had a huge Knight and Crusher at that point, and found a Seismic to deal with Zombie tokens.

Round 3 vs. BUGstill
I seriously hate this matchup. It's usually close and not unfun, but we always go to time. Game one I got in a good bit of pressure early and managed to wrap it up pretty quickly.

Game 2 he keeps managing to have exactly enough cards in his yard to Ghastly Demise every threat I drop (except Bob), but double Bobs beat my ass by hitting multiple 3-drops, and then Jace hit, Seismic got countered, and I got beat to death by Factories.

We start game 3 with like 1:30 on the clock...draw.

Round 4 vs. Painter/Stone
Game 1 I cycle like crazy looking for a Seismic, but don't find it and get milled.

Game 2 I end up with 2 StP, Pyroblast, and Kgrip in hand. He lands painter, I grip grindstone. He gets a welder active, I run StPs into double Force trying to exile Painter, but he has to activate Top to grab the second FoW, which was also his Welder target, so I live another turn. At this point more than half my deck is in the yard and I'm cycling my ass off looking for Seismic, dredging very conservatively. His next turn, he goes to activate Welder again, targeting an artifact land, which I Pyroblast in response, buying another turn. More cycling gets me nothing interesting but a Beast Within, which I use to blow up his painter in response to Welder on his turn, but now he has the Grindstone in play. Out of answers, I dredge up my Loam, get back the cyclers, and on the last one rip Assault. I pitched my one spare land at his Welder and passed. I think he managed to get another Painter into play but didn't have the mana to activate Grindstone, and scooped when I started going crazy with loam/cyclers on my turn.

Again game 3 starts with about 2 minutes on the clock, neither of us can finish it in time.


So I got a couple lucky breaks, but felt like I played pretty well with a couple stupid exceptions. Mostly I was happy that I never had mana issues all day, and never felt like I had to chose between two spells when fetching/playing land.

I'm still not 100% on the singleton Dreams or Beast Within. Dreams might turn into the 4th StP, but it can be so nuts when it resolves, and even when it gets countered it can still sometimes have the intended effect of growing Crusher and Knight while ditching Loams/extra lands. Beast is mainly a more color-friendly substitute for Vindicate, which was the only spell I was having trouble casting before. I didn't see it much so I haven't really evaluated it yet, but in theory it's at worst a 3/3 in exchange for an extra land, at best it eats a Jace or a Moat or something crippling.

On an un-related note...how do you beat that flashless Hulk deck (Zero)?

[sdematt]

Hive Mind is a fucking pile, and preys on decks like us. Competent players playing Blue destroy them. It sucks for us since we don't interact, but, what can you do. I wouldn't get TOO upset, Tony.

@ Terravore and CC

Play both?

Right now, your list BANTFTW looks like 43 lands with a more creature based twist. Interesting.

@ Hulk

Extirpate is pretty dirty against them. Response to the return, Extirpate? Win?

Basically, you board in Perish and Extirpate and Grave hate, and you'll win. Just remember to win, and you'll be fine :P

-Matt

[soltakar]

almost got there again. Lost round one to Hive Mind then won four straight then got paired down (of course) in the sixth round and infuriatingly lost to Elves, which we normally beat five out of six times. Game one I use bolt and pulse to kill symbiotes (I have to). So, he has six mana and one card in hand, course he rips the fourth land, casts regal force, draws four cards, including glimpse and all the good shit necessary to combo off. Game two, I send back a seven with no removal then send back a six with no land and get stuck with a five thats just three lands and two loams. he snap keeps the nuts.

seriously fuck hive mind.

If it makes you feel any better, I wrecked the guy playing Hive Mind in round 3 after you beat me in round 2 (I was playing Buried Ooze).

I'm thinking of going back to aggro loam for KW this week. Any pointers you'd care to share for deck building?