[Deck] Angel Stax 2.0

[Machinus]

The third article on my deck is now available at SCG:

The $400 Solution Part III

I made some changes to this deck, and I think it is stronger and more competitive in the current environment. Please keep this thread about mono-white Stax.

ANGEL STAX
3 Exalted Angel
4 Wrath of God
4 Smokestack
4 Ghostly Prison
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Tangle Wire
3 Trinisphere
4 Suppression Field
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
9 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

SB
4 Disenchant
3 Defense Grid
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sphere of Law
2 Hanna's Custody
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

[lillelassie]

do you really need 4 wrath of god? now that you got 4 prisons? maybe 2-3 is enough or you could just skip them and run powder kegs? or something else like spheres..

[fearphage]

The main problem i find with this deck is the lack of threats. I have been testing this deck on and off for a few months. If you don't win game one, this deck can easily become draw.dec. Even under a hard lock in game 2 your opponent can just force you to wait for a win condition and take their life total to 0. This has drawn many games for me. Although the deck is efficient and has many lock components, it cannot win fast enough. I find it needs more threats. The best suggested threats that also act as lock pieces have been glowrider and hokori, dust drinker. They are not game ending beaters but they do speed up the clock. I personally prefer 3 glowrider in the board specifically for the combo matchup. They are horrid in the aggro matchup obviously but against combo they speed up the clock and control the board at the same time. With mox diamonds, winter orb/hokori is a house. even without it, 6-7 of our lands provide 2 mana so its still asymetrical. also winter orb combos with tanglewire and the tabernacle at pendrell vale. i have found 3 city of traitors to not be a problem when combined with 3 crucibles.

@lillelassie: 4 wraths are a must. combined with ghostly prison, they are the sole things that allow you to survive the fast aggro matchups.

edit: I will post a deck list later. I cannot recall it off the top of my head. What do you use disenchant against? The only thing i could think that would really be a threat would be serenity and disk. I handled both of these with 3 sideboarded karmic justice. this could take the place of henna's custody atleast. It fortifies the strategy of the deck by removing their permanents and enabling smokestack pretty much. this either shuts down disk or it becomes a one-side apocalypse.

although a very heated topic generally, did you find that you wanted any kind of card advantage/quality? i tested 2 bottled cloister briefly and they didnt really do the trick. the main problem was i didnt draw them when i needed them. i didn't want to fix this by adding more so eventually i took them out. this i found to be the best permanent, brown/white solution.... but it sux.

eidt2: also in your article you forgot to mention that the best reason to chalice for 1 is stp. with very few win conditions, you don't need them removed from the game.

edit3: taken from another of my post about stax

other ideas for kill conditions have been juggernaut and eater of days for the 'combo-kill' with smokestack. at most i would run 4 angels and 2 juggernaut OR 2 eater of days. eater of days is ONLY good in a few situations:
- opponent has no land with trinisphere in play
- opponent has around 5ish lands and you play tangle wire and eater the same turn w/ 3pshere in play
- you play eater turn after smokestack goes to 2 or more

since it requires a somewhat combo-esque play to come out in a nonselfdestructive fashion, it is a weak include i feel. on the other hand juggernaut can come in and make quick work of an opponent if given the oppurtunity.

As you can see, I really feel that angel stax's biggest pitfall is its inability to end a game.

I'm done editing.... sorry. i'll post something new if i have anything else to say.

[lillelassie]

okay.. but I have trouble making double white anyways.. for hte wraths..

i also run 4 crucible.. my favourite card. protects tou own land.. can return city and wastes.. and also lands pitched to a mox

besides its combo with smokestack..

with crucible in the deck is armageddon a viable sb card against combo and control?

I run 1 Karn.. a bit random.. but if they somehow deals with angels you always have him.. also I only play angels when I have the lock, this way you don't lack the winconditions..

[outsideangel]

Funny... I was always one of the biggest advocates of Suppression Field, and just as I start to cut it, you write an article advocating it as a 4-of. Will we ever agree? :)

Anyways....

I've been having a lot of success with Moat. I run 1 copy to Tutor for, but you might consider substituting some number of Wraths and/or Prisons with an equal number of Moats.

How have Rishadan Ports been treating you in conjuction with Suppression Fields? I remember running a mono-white list some time ago that looked very, very similar to yours, except that I always found that with Suppression Field, Port cost too much mana to activate to be worth it. Running fewer Ports also let me run more colored sources, to reliably hit WW for Wrath and Angel. I also ran a 3/3 Tomb/City configuration to cut down on the instances of double-Tomb draws, which cause you a lot of pain, but I think your 4/2 configuration is better.

Your new list looks good, much better than the last one. Then again, maybe I just like it because it looks a lot more like mine used to... :roll: No, I'm pretty sure you've tuned and tested considerably, and it shows. Good stuff.

[Machinus]

You don't use Port when Field is out. It's that simple. Field doesn't come out more than half of the time in an average game, and Port is excellent in the rest of the games.

[Lego]

I dropped a Wrath for an Angel, in case anyone cares.

That being said, I think 4 win conditions is plenty. I've considered testing Mishra's Factory in the place of Ports (again, knowing that you don't use them if Suppression Field hits) because they can block all day, and provide another win condition, but that's probably because I simply haven't played against enough decks where Port was an issue. I think I just have amazing topdeck skill and establish locks much quicker than this deck should.

That being said, I find that in tournaments most people will scoop once the lock hits play. Sometimes game two they'll want to wait it out for the draw, but often they'll ask what my win condition is, and after telling them they'll scoop.

If you're *really* having trouble with establishing a hard lock, and people drawing you based on time, call a judge. If they have no permanents in play and there's a Stax at one with a Crucible in play (i.e. the hard lock) they should not be taking more than 30 seconds for their turn. Draw, maybe play a land, discard. That's about it. Usually it'll be even faster than that, and I find that is *PLENTY* of time to draw the kill. She only needs to wing five times max. If it's setting up the lock that you're having trouble with, I suggest testing the deck more until you're comfortable with how to go about it, because I haven't had much trouble setting up enough of a lock to ride an Angel to the win.

Incidentally, in the past two weeks I've taken this to the scrubby T1.5 tournaments we hold at my local store. Both times I won the tournament without losing a single match. Granted, a couple times I played against such scrubby decks that after dropping a Trinisphere and maybe wasting a few lands, I feel safe to ride an angel to the win. But I've also played it against Thresh several times, Goblins twice, Solidarity, RGSA, and some other viable decks. It may be lack of play skill or something, but I usually steam roll them.

On one final note, I finished a game against Threshold with 40 life while they had 0 permanents in play. The matchup is *THAT* good :)

[Bane of the Living]

Black stax decks have been using Braids and Haunting Echoes. Which are both rediculous in the deck.

I know you want to keep this a mono w discussion but you never did talk about the choices you made to come to mono w. Is it basically supression field?

[Citrus-God]

Angel Stax has a better clock, a better win, and a better consistentcy of slaughtering more decks than Black Stax.

With Angel Stax, you can ramp up counters on Smokestack and do some beatz with Angel until they have hardly anything in play and your dead because you don't have any resources left and you took some mad beatings from Angel.


Braids Stax is also like Angel Stax. Plus, with the new inclusion of E Tutor, it has good match ups against Combo!

LMA, I too also tried Factories. It was good in the old build, with 1Sphere and Keg, but the new one it seems that Port is better in here. I really wanna shove Factories back in here.

[Machinus]

I know you want to keep this a mono w discussion but you never did talk about the choices you made to come to mono w.

If you had read the articles linked at the top of the page, you would know that I did talk about other colors in my first article.

[Lego]

The Mono W build is basically for consistancy, and because the black splash offers nothing to make the bad matchups better. Right now the two most important matchups (for any deck) are Goblins and Threshold.

The Threshold matchup is already so amazing that Haunting Echoes isn't needed. I've honestly lost like two matches in testing against Threshold ever, and I've tested well over 30 matches.

As for Goblins, the extra Stax effect, in my testing, hasn't been enough to do it, because it gets killed easily, and you're sacrificing Wrath to play it. I'd much rather have a Wrath than a Braids in this matchup.

Basically every other matchup either boils down to Wrath being better than Braids, or you winning without Braids. There's no sense in making yourself more Wasteland/Color Screw susceptible for a card that does little to improve your matchups.

[Bane of the Living]

Well I was asking because I did read your articles, all three of them. But they didnt say anything to me about you testing the black cards. I figured maybe your just biased. I continue to assume so.

@Anti & Lego thnx for giving me more of an explaination. I figured since I'm showing interenst in this archetype we could have a little chat about card choices instead of THIS IS THAT. Have either of you physically tested black splash yourselves? I'm smart enough to see the pros and cons myself, I'm just wondering which people prefer.

It seems very split so I'm just tallying votes here. Lata

[Lego]

@ Bane: I feel like in the end it really comes down to a matter of personal preference. Around here I need to beat Threshold, and that's about it. I can do that amazingly consistantly with Angel Stax, so that's good enough for me. Splashing black wouldn't change that too much, but the Enlightened Tutor build I've been seeing, in my opinion, is not the way to go. While increasing your versatility, it slows you down by a turn, which greatly hinders your Thresh and Goblins matchup.

Thresh and Goblins are the two most played decks right now, we can say that without a doubt. In both of these matchups, I have found that first turn Chalice for 1 is game breaking. In the Threshold match, it ends the game, plain and simple. Against Goblins, it stops all of their broken acceleration, and gives you time to put the game away. Moving on, Suppression Field is also amazing in both of these matchups. For that reason both of these, IMO, need to be a 4 of. After that, do the Tutor thing if you want, but don't cry when it gets predicted

That other thing you lose in the Black splash is Wrath of God. I just haven't seen any instances where Braids is better than Wrath. The Combo matchup is already locked down, Braids or no. Thresh is already *heavily* in your favor, and Wrath only makes the Goblin matchup better. What matchup can you give me that the loss of Wrath is worth the inclusion of Braids? I can't think of one single matchup.

And finally, in most games Wasteland isn't an issue, and if it is you're probably losing anyway, but I still don't like to make myself unnecessarily susceptible to it. If you already have as good (and sometimes better) matchups with Mono-White, what is the point in going the black route?

[Citrus-God]

Both decks are pretty much the same, except they play very differently. Its like this, theres Uba Stax, Cron Stax, and Rainbow Stax.

Uba is all out aggressive. It will shut down all your mana, then lock you to death.

Cron is more defensive. It always tries and survives through the game until it locks the opponent. While the game progresses, it uses silver bullets to solve problems.

Rainbow can change between roles. It has Silver Bullets, and mana denial to live through the game, or seals it.


So with legacy it's like this...


Braids Staxs is more aggressive than Angel Stax. Only time I saw myself super aggressive is when I have an Angel out, ready to smash face.

Angel Stax is in the defensive, unless your going Turbo Angel, or doing that Smokestack/Angel trick to keep them in a 5 turn clock.

[Bane of the Living]

Does Uba mask work in the deck?

Is anyone having trouble with white mana sources? I sometimes feel 9 Plains and 4 Diamonds to not be enough.

[Citrus-God]

ehh... Uba Mask is good, but not in this deck. I guess you could use it against Gro and other draw heavy decks, but other than that, it seems kinda pointless.


Well, thing is, 13 is enough, but with the loss of fetchlands, it seems like when a Crucible is active, you don't get to reuse it. I replaced my fetchlands with Urza's Saga Plains. Everytime I drew one, and I have a Crucible active and I need that 2nd White for WoG, I never got it...

[Bane of the Living]

Ok, so It's good to know I'm not alone. What can we do to fix this? Cut some ports? Thats probably the best decision. Port turns to a pile when you have suppression field anyways. I really dont like that the deck can become anti synergistic like that. Especially w no draw.

[Lego]

I don't find that Angel Stax is defensive at all. If we're defining defensive as reactive, which is usually how I would define it in Magic, then Angel Stax is the opposite of defensive. It's Uber Aggressive in that you're trying to play your lock before they can do anything. The fact that your aggression is geared towards things other than their life total doesn't mean it isn't aggression.

The only reason I would say Angel Stax is more defensive (read: reactive) than Braid Stax is that Braid Stax aggressively goes for the Stax lock, while Angel Stax has a very reactive card in Wrath of God. Still, with the E-Tutor "Bullet" engine, Braid Stax becomes much more reactive.

[Citrus-God]

They very good cards, if you cut the, you cut mana denial for negation. There are times you will like having Ports around, esspecially when your trying to lock your opponent down.

[Bane of the Living]

Playing around with Machinus' build I've adjusted it to..
-1 Rishadin Port
-1 Wrath of God
+1 Plains
+1 Exalted Angel