[Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

[thefringthing]

Without Cabal Rituals, TES isn't very susceptible to graveyard hate to begin with. There's Ill-Gotten Gains, but we're talking about potentially replacing that with Past in Flames. I'm perfectly happy to have Maverick (say) bring in Relics or something like that. Trying to combat TES with graveyard hate, even in the hypothetical situation where we all end up playing Past into Flames, is an ineffective enough strategy that I think we needn't worry.

[Final Fortune]

You don't cut either Ill Gotten Gains or Diminishing Returns for Past in Flames, you just add Past in Flames to the SB and that's that because it's a mid-game option vs. aggro-control that's only undisruptable if you have the win in your hand/yard right now.

Each of these cards has a window in which they are the appropriate threat, and when one window closes the other windows open. They're strengths, respectively, are to make certain you aren't overly reliant on any one window by overlapping each other and providing multiple angles of entry.

[jin]

You don't cut either Ill Gotten Gains or Diminishing Returns for Past in Flames, you just add Past in Flames to the SB and that's that because it's a mid-game option vs. aggro-control that's only undisruptable if you have the win in your hand/yard right now.

Each of these cards has a window in which they are the appropriate threat, and when one window closes the other windows open. They're strengths, respectively, are to make certain you aren't overly reliant on any one window by overlapping each other and providing multiple angles of entry.

If you aren't replacing IGG or DR, which other card do you plan to replace? The SB seems pretty tight.

I think in your 2 Ad Nauseam lists (I'm still playing 1 Ad Nauseam as I feel ETW is better against NO rUG), DR just seems not that impressive. DR is random like Ad Nauseam and refills the opponent's hand like IGG. I think it is the weakest link, if we are talking about bombs and anti-blue cards, Past in Flames seem more of a DR replacement rather than an IGG replacement in the SB.

I am hesitant to put in Past in Flames alongside IGG and DR and ETW and Grapeshot and Tendrils of Agony since having 5 wincons in the SB is about all this deck should need to afford.

[Final Fortune]

The deck doesn't have a really high utility value for SB cards, you can always cut a REB etc. for one more wish target, but trading one bomb for another bomb is a bad idea because its the versatility of those threats that make TES so hard to stop.

[Bryant Cook]

Stop acting like little kids that their mom gave their old toys to charity and now they want them back because they're just sooo awesome.

I for one hardly ever even cast Ill-Gotten Gains, I cast Diminishing Returns all the time. It gets around lifeloss AND graveyard hate, it's very good. We don't need three storm engines in the sideboard, the answer better not be "just cut an REB for it". Have people played this deck before? Sideboard space is extremely tight and the answer isn't cutting a protection spell.

I could be wrong because I haven't tested it yet, but I doubt it, for all three times that I cast IGG a year.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I for one hardly ever even cast Ill-Gotten Gains, I cast Diminishing Returns all the time. It gets around lifeloss AND graveyard hate, it's very good. We don't need three storm engines in the sideboard, the answer better not be "just cut an REB for it". Have people played this deck before? Sideboard space is extremely tight and the answer isn't cutting a protection spell.

I could be wrong because I haven't tested it yet, but I doubt it, for all three times that I cast IGG a year.

Gonna have to agree here, I almost never wish for IGG. I've cast the card maybe once or twice since I took it out of the mainboard however long ago. The reason I like PIF so much is the flasback, which basically allows us to do the vintage "oops, I topdecked Will, guess I win" play repeatedly until it resolves.

[Dark Ritual]

And things get really spicy when you have 3 or more RoF/Dark Rit in the yard along with infernal tutor or if an opponent discarded your burning wish. Sometimes I find myself one storm short of killing with an IGG loop and I just die because of it.

And at least PiF, if it gets countered or something, can be flashbacked later on for 4R something people seem to miss. Giving TES a stronger lategame doesn't seem that bad and the power of PiF goes on as the game increases since you likely are going to draw into more rituals to flashback and just 'go crazy'.

[fearphage]

Stop acting like little kids that their mom gave their old toys to charity and now they want them back because they're just sooo awesome.

I for one hardly ever even cast Ill-Gotten Gains, I cast Diminishing Returns all the time. It gets around lifeloss AND graveyard hate, it's very good. We don't need three storm engines in the sideboard, the answer better not be "just cut an REB for it". Have people played this deck before? Sideboard space is extremely tight and the answer isn't cutting a protection spell.

I could be wrong because I haven't tested it yet, but I doubt it, for all three times that I cast IGG a year.

I'm the complete opposite. I play IGG main deck because it's my go-to kill. Uninterrupted it is a guaranteed win. The same cannot be said for Diminishing Returns and even Ad Nauseam. The latter is more probable but by no means a guarantee even from 20 life. Diminishing Returns is my "oh shit" button that I hit and pray. It's too inconsistent and if drawing 15+ cards off of AN can't get there, that instills little faith in the 7.

[NyxathidHorror]

I'm the complete opposite. I play IGG main deck because it's my go-to kill. Uninterrupted it is a guaranteed win. The same cannot be said for Diminishing Returns and even Ad Nauseam. The latter is more probable but by no means a guarantee even from 20 life. Diminishing Returns is my "oh shit" button that I hit and pray. It's too inconsistent and if drawing 15+ cards off of AN can't get there, that instills little faith in the 7.

I couldn't agree more; IGG simply wins. I really like Past, and it makes for an excellent replacement for the second copy of Nauseam, but it just doesn't quite do what IGG does.

[Final Fortune]

Stop acting like little kids that their mom gave their old toys to charity and now they want them back because they're just sooo awesome.

I for one hardly ever even cast Ill-Gotten Gains, I cast Diminishing Returns all the time. It gets around lifeloss AND graveyard hate, it's very good. We don't need three storm engines in the sideboard, the answer better not be "just cut an REB for it". Have people played this deck before? Sideboard space is extremely tight and the answer isn't cutting a protection spell.

I could be wrong because I haven't tested it yet, but I doubt it, for all three times that I cast IGG a year.

If IGG isn't pulling it's weight, then I'd rather cut IGG than Diminishing Returns because it's a redundant Storm engine but I still find the Infernal -> Wish -> IGG loop to be a pretty assured win vs. Zoo after they've played Wild Nacatl or Goblin Guide and double bolted you etc.

I don't really think the SB space is that precious, but it probably depends on whether or not people are bothering to SB vs. Storm at all (and they aren't fwiw).

[Final Fortune]

Stop acting like little kids that their mom gave their old toys to charity and now they want them back because they're just sooo awesome.

I for one hardly ever even cast Ill-Gotten Gains, I cast Diminishing Returns all the time. It gets around lifeloss AND graveyard hate, it's very good. We don't need three storm engines in the sideboard, the answer better not be "just cut an REB for it". Have people played this deck before? Sideboard space is extremely tight and the answer isn't cutting a protection spell.

I could be wrong because I haven't tested it yet, but I doubt it, for all three times that I cast IGG a year.

If IGG isn't pulling it's weight, then I'd rather cut IGG than Diminishing Returns because it's a redundant Storm engine but I still find the Infernal -> Wish -> IGG loop to be a pretty assured win vs. Zoo after they've played Wild Nacatl or Goblin Guide and double bolted you etc.

I don't really think the SB space is that precious, but it probably depends on whether or not people are bothering to SB vs. Storm at all (and they aren't fwiw).

[r0ckstAr]

Hello guys !
Can someone post an uptated septembre 2011 list ? I played this deck a lot back in 2007-2008 and LOVED it, but then i quit magic and obviously lost track of TES' progress.
With or without Past in Flames, I read the last X pages of the topic and will test it myself ;)

[j_rb]

@r0ckstAr - the updated list is on the first page and has articles and feature match videos. I am personally still rolling out with xantid swarms though and have not tested Defense grids yet.(even though I have beautiful foil ones).

[lorddotm]

I'm not liking Past in Flames that much.

[jin]

I couldn't agree more; IGG simply wins. I really like Past, and it makes for an excellent replacement for the second copy of Nauseam, but it just doesn't quite do what IGG does.

I'm the complete opposite. I ...

I wouldn't call IGG my go to card, but I do use it against Zoo and Sligh a lot. There are a lot of burn decks (by a lot I mean I run into it once every tournament), so I prefer to have the guarentee win with IGG. DR just refills their hand with yeet even more burns, which is terrible while with IGG, I can gauge what they draw

I don't really think the SB space is that precious, but it probably depends on whether or not people are bothering to SB vs. Storm at all (and they aren't fwiw).

I disagree with this one. SB space is just too tight. I'm running defense grid now, but I really wanted to keep a Wipe Away.

[Shimi]

I'm not liking Past in Flames that much.

Same here.. tested and just didn't like it..it is better than EtW MD but worse than 2nd Adn.At SB I just don't want to cut something(if I would have to cut something it would be the 3° bounce spell), it could be my playstyle but many times when I would go to PiF the Iggy was the same thing or better.

Maybe PiF belong to another storm deck shell like TNT(UBR ANT).

[lorddotm]

Same here.. tested and just didn't like it..it is better than EtW MD but worse than 2nd Adn.At SB I just don't want to cut something(if I would have to cut something it would be the 3° bounce spell), it could be my playstyle but many times when I would go to PiF the Iggy was the same thing or better.

Maybe PiF belong to another storm deck shell like TNT(UBR ANT).

Been playing it in a modified TNT list. Totally sick, but I'm unsure it's better than Ad Nauseam.

[Bryant Cook]

Paraselene 2W

Sorcery
Destroy all enchantments. You gain 1 life for each enchantment destroyed this way.
"Moonlight has a way of showing all things as they truly are - for better or for worse."
-Zilla of Lambholt
Illus. Ryan Yee #26/264

For those of us that still use Cleanfall/Tranquility or plan to in the future. I'll probably acquire a Japanese Foil one at somepoint.

[Anusien]

After Past in Flames replaces IGG, do Duresses replace the Chants?

[Bryant Cook]

After Past in Flames replaces IGG, do Duresses replace the Chants?

The problem with this is that it's still an Ad Nauseam deck at the moment. I'm not even convinced that Past of Flames will end up in the maindeck, it seems foolish changing the deck for a wish target.