The September 20th 2011 Banned / Restricted List Update Reaction Thread

[Demonic_Attorney]

Yeah I don't think Countertop is really even a deck anymore. I mean unless Snapcaster changes something it doesn't have stellar matchups vs. any of the really relevant decks (Zoo, Merfolk, Midrange Bant).

I concur.

All these people talking about counterbalance making a miraculous comeback and being a tier one deck again in the legacy format is not plausible or reasonably practical. Given the present metagame, even without mental misstep banned, it still has a lot of bad matchups right now.

Counterbalance may see some or little play as oppose to virtually no play as has been the case this year in 2011; however, it is unlikely that counterbalance will see much play on the 5k circuit and I suspect it will not see the top eight of any large scale legacy events in the near future like Grand Prixs or Star City Games Opens.

[Tammit67]

I hear people say this all the time, but it seems in practice it doesn't always work out this way.

It is about even.

[Humphrey]

please correct me if i am wrong, but i dont remember storm dominating the format pre misstep - post survival. Also wasnt counterbalance falling apart as one of the powerhouse decks before misstep anyway?

Spiraltide was everywhere and clearly a broken deck. Only the pricetag on Candelabras prevented something much worse.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I hear people say this all the time, but it seems in practice it doesn't always work out this way.

I once saw a TES vs. Merfolk matchup in which the TES player managed to win through something like 2 Stifles, 3 Forces of Will, two Dazes, and two Cursecatchers. It was insane.


EDIT: Guess I should have attended the GP in my city. Could have done decently, and it was my last chance to use Misstep. Oh well.

[menace13]

33% more. I see what you did there. Very creative. I guess the not-so-subtle difference between whining and gloating is lost on those who need a tissue.

Whining or Gloating, different sides of the same coin.

[rufus]

Spiraltide was everywhere and clearly a broken deck. Only the pricetag on Candelabras prevented something much worse.

And Snapcaster Mage probably fits in there too.

[Tammit67]

Spiraltide was everywhere and clearly a broken deck. Only the pricetag on Candelabras prevented something much worse.

...sry, whut?

That is just not true.

[DragoFireheart]

I concur.

All these people talking about counterbalance making a miraculous comeback and being a tier one deck again in the legacy format is not plausible or reasonably practical. Given the present metagame, even without mental misstep banned, it still has a lot of bad matchups right now.

Counterbalance may see some or little play as oppose to virtually no play as has been the case this year in 2011; however, it is unlikely that counterbalance will see much play on the 5k circuit and I suspect it will not see the top eight of any large scale legacy events in the near future like Grand Prixs or Star City Games Opens.

- I guess time will tell then...

[caiomarcos]

Green Sun's Zenith
On turn one, this can give the acceleration of a Llanowar Elves by getting a Dryad Arbor. On later turns, it can get a large creature or a one-of "toolbox" creature such as Gaddock Teeg. While this is interesting, it is also too efficient. If one intends to build a deck that has turn-one accelerants, Green Sun's Zenith is a great choice. If one wants to more access to utility green creatures, Green Sun's Zenith is a great choice. If one wants to more reliably get a large green creature, such as a Primeval Titan, onto the battlefield, Green Sun's Zenith is a great choice. However, this ends up with fewer different decks being played in practice, as Green Sun's Zenith is such a good choice that there are fewer green decks that do anything else. The DCI hopes that banning Green Sun's Zenith increases diversity among Modern green decks

Change GSZ for Goyf, make the necessary adaptations and then you get the situation we have in Legacy for the last few years. Super efficient card that is by far the best option for many different situations, so 90% of the time green is played solely to fit Goyf in whatever deck you want to and not much more. We got used to it, but the argument still stands and Goyf still is the most stifling card ever to exist in Legacy.

[Humphrey]

...sry, whut?

That is just not true.

ok, i checked the t16 scg lists and probably your right. Hightide had a peak like Hivemind did and then wasnt getting any good results.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I once saw a TES vs. Merfolk matchup in which the TES player managed to win through something like 2 Stifles, 3 Forces of Will, two Dazes, and two Cursecatchers. It was insane.


EDIT: Guess I should have attended the GP in my city. Could have done decently, and it was my last chance to use Misstep. Oh well.

Yeah, well that's 12 cards that didn't get the Merfolk player any closer to winning the game. You can only stick your finger in the dam so long, merfolk can put on pressure while playing Forces, Dazes, Stifles, and Spell Pierces.

[Bahamuth]

Spiraltide was everywhere and clearly a broken deck. Only the pricetag on Candelabras prevented something much worse.

This is just bullshit. Spiral Tide has no actual advantage over all sorts of other combo.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Change GSZ for Goyf, make the necessary adaptations and then you get the situation we have in Legacy for the last few years. Super efficient card that is by far the best option for many different situations, so 90% of the time green is played solely to fit Goyf in whatever deck you want to and not much more. We got used to it, but the argument still stands and Goyf still is the most stifling card ever to exist in Legacy.

Just stop.

This is just bullshit. Spiral Tide has no actual advantage over all sorts of other combo.

Running Force of Will to deal with hate bears and way more filter doesn't count?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I dunno, I think High Tide is very clearly the new best deck. If Counterbalance can find a way to beat it, that might be enough. Then Fish show back up...

I mean I understand why they banned MM but it doesn't seem to really solve the blue problem.

[Humphrey]

no to mention some nonblue decks were just starting to test them more intensive, like maverick or goblins.

This is just bullshit. Spiral Tide has no actual advantage over all sorts of other combo.

-monoU
-Cunning Wishboard
-Force of Will
-Carddraw

[dontbiteitholmes]

I dunno, I think High Tide is very clearly the new best deck. If Counterbalance can find a way to beat it, that might be enough. Then Fish show back up...

I mean I understand why they banned MM but it doesn't seem to really solve the blue problem.

That's exactly what I was saying, now I feel like I have to play blue or at least heavy disruption to contend with all the combo that is back to having a completely lopsided matchup vs. "fair" decks without Force.

[rufus]

I dunno, I think High Tide is very clearly the new best deck. If Counterbalance can find a way to beat it, that might be enough. Then Fish show back up...

With Innistrad, there a couple more cards for consideration with red or black splash high tide, but I think mono U is still going to be the best option... Solidarity beats spring tide, right?

[Jade]

If I could legitimately play Solidarity again, I'd be the happiest legacy player in the whole wide world.

[Worm1605]

What a bunch of B.S. I guess the day of the deck builder is dead and now we just have to all play the same 5 top decks until the banned and restricted announcement is made. Just when you think they couldn't f it up anymore...

[SlopeeJ]

This is just bullshit. Spiral Tide has no actual advantage over all sorts of other combo.

This is clearly not true, force of will must make a combo deck better. Tutoring for the pact counter..... Can't be serious? Really?