A accelerator is gonna be needed thats for sure. Glad i didnt sell my 4 foilad AEther Vials in case thats the road the deck should be going. Thought I do like the discard heavy mox version.
I think I'm moving back to Aether Vials and Serra Avengers as well.
No, please dont move to the dark side of Deadguy. Dont leave the strong side.
I tell you, Aether Vial and Avengers SUCK BALLS. Honestly, what do you want a 3/3 for? Chumpblocking a raging Knight of the Reliquary? Or what?`
Nah, if you really wanna play acceleration, please do use Chrome Moxe.
Greetings
I proxied up a list based on that one, and thought it was really solid. Personally I think less discard effects is the way to go since these colors don't really offer much in terms of draw fixing and hand sculpting.Originally Posted by Tim the Enchanter
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Less discard? NO WAY! I was thinking of playing like 4 Hymn 3 Thoughtseize and 3 Duress. So adding 2more discard. Dont play less. You dont wanna lose to Combo, trust me.
Against Zoo (with Steppe Lynx) I had no chances to win. It is too fast and my Ghostly Prison were too slow (maybe also a wrong sideboard choice's).
Against Junk and Team America I played a good fight but lost due bad topdeck!
Aven Mindcestor is not strong enough to take place maindeck. Too situational.
Post BAN I'm thinking about play again with Mother of the Runes (to protect creatures from removal) and Vial (to avoid rising Couterbalance and Snare decks) and back with SOFI.
I'd rather lose to aggro? Be realistic, discard alone has never been good enough to stop a good storm player. They'll just play out their mana sources and use every opportunity to dig for a tutor then chain tutors in to AdN or IGG to win.
People just need to get over their hard-ons for discard because it just isn't the all-inclusive answer it gets made out to be. It's usefulness varies wildly based on the game state, and for every game that you just wreck your opponent's hand, you'll have another game where you hit something redundant, or they just top-deck another threat/answer.
Go ahead and devote 10 slots to discard if you want, but you better be packing some Tops so you can attempt to find something that's actually relevant against Zoo after turn 3, or to deal with that Progenitus that came off a Natural Order hidden by a Brainstorm.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Its not like Ethersword Canonist does much against a potent storm player either. Some strange card is probly more usefull like Sadistic Sacrament. Or just ignore the storm matchup all together and accept to lose to it without spending your whole board plan against it. Mean Epic storm does run 4 silence effects and 4 duresses thats alot of protection. Our clock is slow and they can set their gameplan up and blow us out with AD naus, Past or iggy.
And rather spend the board to strenghten the deck against zoo, merfolk, , no rug and countertop / blade decks. Even if we spend all 15 cards in the board against storm i dont think its gonna be reaching 50%.
Plan with misstep gone is no more Go for the throat and lowered the amount of Vindicates.
Removal suite is now:
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Gatekeeper of malakir
2 Ghastly Demise
1 Dismember
2 Vindicate
Expecting alot more Merfolk, Zoo and goblins now and elves for that matter.
Last edited by Rizso; 09-20-2011 at 06:45 PM.
Where I've had the most success, and I think most storm players would agree (please correct me if I'm wrong), is with multiple, varied hate. Canonist alone is not very good. Canonist + Null Rod + Leyline of Sanctity? That will buy you a lot of time.
Discard alone won't make it, but discard + counters or other hate has a much better chance.
To me, it's just a meta choice. If your meta is full of Hive Mind and Spiral Tide, rock lots of discard. If it's TES/AnT, pack more diverse hate, and hope to get luckier than they do. Still, the whole point of combo is that sometimes it just craps out a win and there's nothing you can do about it. I'd rather strengthen the 50/50 matchups, and try to use combo-hate that has usefulness in other matchups as well.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
You annoy the shit out of me and I've never taken anything you say slightly seriously.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I have been a major factor in this deck's rise in popularity and success, and call myself an authority on this deck. I've made money at every SCG Open I've played this in. A T8 in Charlotte, with the whiter build, a T16 in Baltimore, and a T32 in Richmond. I also missed the money at the Indy Invitational by 1 match and lost in the T8 of an IQ because I drew 11 lands against one of the decks worst match ups. What the fuck have you done?
Have you ever seen someone flash V Clique in response to Show and Tell to win the game? You can do that, but better, with Vial and Sculler. How bout stopping Spiral Tide by Vialing Revoker in response to Candelabra or a Canonist after a High Tide?
I'd like to fit some Thoughtseize in but it's not mandatory.
I think your right about Avenger. What would I possibly want a 3/3 flyer with vigilance for in a format where most dudes are smaller and don't have flying. I mean she can't even stand toe to toe with green creatures while carrying a sword or with a Mom out, and getting 4 Jitte counters a round just seems terrible.
I'm not worried about combo. I am worried about recurring EE, Pernicious Deed, and Firespout which will all see more play.
Revoker is going to be stone cold nuts again. I promise.
@Dickcheese: I think Canonist + Heavy discard is varied enough. Tidehollow Sculler is great in the combo matchups. Play that shit like Alara block constructed.
Could Mr. Arrogant show us the way to go after Mental Misstep ban then?
He did. You ignored him.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
By doing what? I wanna see an decklist not like 2 cards.
Theory and discussion > Blind decklists
I'll trust Tim's opinion over just about anyone else's in this thread.
Look at the T8 from SCG Charlotte. They have it listed as Tim Frank instead of Mr. Arrogant if you're having trouble finding the right one.
There are some changes I would make but I haven't thought about it too much because I haven't really been playing Magic recently. In fact, I played very little Magic at all between those big events and no Legacy at all.
Philipp let it go. Tim is the only person I know that consistently posts results at major tournaments with this archetype. Either put up some numbers to back up your ideas or just be willing to let go of some of these pre-conceived notions of what's good and what isn't.
Anyway...
Tim where do you stand on Mom? I've never been that impressed with her, both on my side and the opponent's, but some people just swear by her.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
I like her in Vial builds, with or without Misstep legal. She just does a bunch of stuff. Blanking Batterskull is a big one, as well as getting Sworded guys in.
When you play a bunch of creatures, versus BB, Mom is pretty good. She pretty much beats Merfolk on her own, and saving your guys from removal is key. On top of that she lets you push dudes through which is also pretty good. I had never thought of blanking Batterskull but it's true and a great reason to have her around. I'm not sure how dominant SFM will be post MM though.
Sorry for what I said but I was a lil pissed - not concerning this forum though.
Would you mind posting your list. I might prox it just to see how I like it - no worries it actually is good.
Greetings
There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)
Reply With Quote