3 volcanics or wastes to play firespout??? lol?
I dont think mind harness is a good option.In this version the grim lavamancer needs R,and mind harness is so mana intensive.With submerge and dismember is ok.
In my list,finally i play the preordain over dismember.The rest is the same like the list of Caplan(-1 tropi +1 fetch,only playing goyfs and for the lavamancer).Finally,the SB is like this:
1 Firespout
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ravenous Trap
3 Spell Pierce
3 Submerge
This weekend i will play an invitational tournament here in Spain and another tournament called Eternal Weeken with a lot of players with this list.On Sunday i will tell you my impresions =D
I dont think Ravenous Trap is a good anti graveyard card right now. I dont want to play an anti-graveyard card which is useless agains reanimator... I would play a Tormod's over it.
You will win reanimator with your counterwall.2 surgical+3 spell pierce+3 reb/pyro+counterwall MD.I want the third slot anti grave in my side to have the best card against dredge so i play the trap and have 3 good slots vs it,2 surgical+1 trap. Tormod is worse against both.Reanimator play pithin and null rod and dredge play a lot of anti hate that are in play,like grudge,pithin,natures claim etc etc,but if you have the hate card in hand they only have the cabal and with 2 surgical+counterwall is ok vs reanimatorOriginally Posted by kues
Keys, do you have a non-mental mistep trinket mage list? Collar on grim is just sooo good. The delver flip guy is interesting, but when running stifle anyway i'd love to play naught as a HUGE clock. once u have them on the ropes digging for somthing to get them back in the game, he just shuts shit down asap. Here is a pre-MM list of mine
3x Grim lavamancer
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Trinket mage
2x Vendilion Clique
4x stifle
4x fire//ice
4x daze
4x force of will
3x spell snare
4x brainstorm
1x engineered explosives
1x phyrexian dreadnought
1x basilisk collar
1x pithing needle
2x islands
1x forest
4x misty rainforest
4x scalding tarn
3x tropical island
3x volcanic island
4x wasteland
If you look at the dreadlist thread u can see posts from keys and mee about an updated list. (I see you did)
Just made Top 8 of a 42 man tournament with UGR Canadian Thresh with Delvers. I probably would have won the tourney had I not lost game 3 of round 1 of the Top 8 against Zoo by mulling to an unplayable 4 cards.
Delvers are sick but playing with checklists in my deck of foils and fbbs makes me want to cry.
Possible tourney report to come if anyone's interested.
What was your decklist?
Yesterday I attended the Ovino 6 tournament here in Italy and I ended up 6th out of 390 players playing canadian thresh with delver.
I played every single match for 9 rounds.
Here's the decklist:
4 tarmogoyf
4 delver of secrets
3 nimble mongoose
4 force of will
4 daze
4 stifle
3 spell snare
4 lightning bolt
2 fire//ice
2 dismember
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 wooded foothills
2 flooded strand
4 tropical island
4 volcanic island
4 wasteland
Sideboard:
3 spell pierce
1 red elemental blast
2 pyroblast
2 krosan grip
2 mind harness
3 submerge
2 surgical extraction
Here's a brief report of what I found in the swiss rounds.
Round 1
ur storm: 2-0
Round 2
Canadian thresh: 2-0
Round 3
Ant (with 7 orim effects): 2-1, lost g1
Round 4
TES: 2-1, lost g1
Round 5
MUD: 2-1, g2 had to mull@3
Round 6
Cascade ugr: 0-2 (opponent only lost in the finals)
Round 7
Sneak and tell: 2-1, lost g2
Round 8
Faeries ugr: 2-0
Round 9
Belcher: 2-0
Top8
Lost 0-2 against team america feat. snapback mage (he eventually won the tournament).
The metagame presented lots of tempo and combo decks. There was also a good amount of zoo, merfolk and GW maverick. I actually didn't see a lot of blackbased decks such as rock or pikula, which surprised me a bit after the ban of MM.
Top8 looked like this:
2 canadian thresh
1 team america (the guy I lost to)
1 cascade ugr (the other guy I lost to)
1 gw maverick
1 spiral tide
1 order rug
1 thopter foundry
I was really looking forward to such a finish after several top8's in 45-50 man tournaments, and I finally got it.
I just don't know why there's was such a big comeback of canadian thresh but I'm simply amazed by how many mongeese I saw killing their opponents
Long life to canadian thresh! Welcome back! (if you ever went away)
Last edited by spartan117; 10-03-2011 at 09:19 AM.
If there was ever a deck to run Snapcaster Mage and Delver of Secrets in, this would be the deck.
Well, what you can do is that you can have 2 sets of foil Delvers - one as Delver in your deck, one flipped as Insect Abberation and in different sleeves separate and just swap them out whenever Delver would flip, essentially treating the Insect Abberations like tokens.
I would not have minded just taking them out of the sleeves each time they flip. The problem was you could see the card faces through the back of my sleeves (Ultra Pro Matte Green with perfect fits)...
The list I used was the same as Goobafish's from a couple pages back:
4 Delver
4 Goyf
3 Lavamancer
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Bolt
2 Dismember
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
4 Wasteland
4 Trop
4 Volc
3 Tarn
3 Misty
Sideboard:
3 Submerge
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Blast
2 Pierce
1 Grip
1 Grudge
1 Firespout
1 Tormod's Crypt (replaced a Mind Harness last minute)
I ended up not going with basics just to see what it was like. I think this probably is correct, however I didn't play against Merfolk or Goblins, so I'm not really sure.
Here's a quick summary of my games:
Round 1: Paired against my friend Kevin playing an Esperblade brew with Confidant, Snapcaster Mage, and Unearth (!). I win the roll and play a Delver, which he Plows. I double Waste and he draws out. I Stifle his Stoneforge trigger and he has the Batterskull anyway. I Dismember the germ but then he plays Snapcaster Mage targeting a Plow, removing my other creature. He eventually gets enough land to equip Batterskull and win. Game 2 is not much different with him drawing the nuts. The deck can do some stupid tricks with Unearth, which you can just cycle when nothing is in the yard, and flashback later with a Snapcaster Mage. You can also do some sick chains like Unearth -> Snapcaster -> flashback Unearth -> Clique.
0-1
Round 2: My opponent playing Dredge mulls to 4 game 1. I Daze something and Stifle his Coliseum, and two Goyfs clean up. Game 2 he gets an Imp out and starts dredging early. I draw Surgical Extraction for his first Ichorid to slow things down. I Fow his Dread Return, and then Firespout his zombies and my own Lavamancer to remove his Bridges and seal the game.
1-1
Round 3: I win the roll against Omar playing NO RUG, and proceed to Stifle and Waste the only lands he draws all game. Unfortunately, I didn't pay enough attention to his discard pile and mistakenly put him on Stoneblade and sideboarded completely wrong for game 2. I keep a slow hand with Grip and draw into Grudge as well. Eventually I brainstorm them away, but by then he has ramped to 4 mana and casts Jace, which I FoW, followed by Natural Order, which resolves. Game 3 I take out the blasts and artifact hate for Submerges and Spell Pierces. The deck does its thing and he can't keep any permanents on the board. I get there with some flying Delvers and a hand full of disruption.
2-1
Round 4: Again, I win the roll against Wes with his red splash BUG Control list (with Counterspells, Stalkers, Goyfs, Deeds, and Firespout). Game 1 I Waste his colored lands. He resolves a Top, but I Stifle all his fetches so he can't shuffle the chaff. I think a Delver or two gets there. Game 2 I make a pretty savage misplay by casting Dismember on his 5/6 Goyf (I forgot about the Deed in his yard). I try to save face and cast my second Dismember and we get into a counter war which I lose. 8 life later and 2 swings from Goyf and I'm dead. Game 3 I start off with some land destruction and start beating with a Delver and a 3/4 Goyf. He stabalizes at 8 life with a Stalker, but I eventually draw a 2nd Delver and then just swing twice for the win. Turns out he had a Firespout that he didn't cast because he didn't have a red source, even though he had a green. By the time he casted it, I had the counter. It's possible that mistake could have changed the game.
3-1
Round 5: Brian Kibler with Junk. Game 1 he Swords both my early Delver and Goyf, putting me ahead on life. I try to cut him off green with a Stifle and a Wasteland, but he draws into more land and casts a Knight. It doesn't matter though, because a second Delver and a Lavamancer easily race him with the extra life as a buffer. Game 2 was the biggest blowout of the day. He mulls to 6 and goes Mox, Mox, Confidant. I play land, bolt. Next turn Ancient Grudge, Daze his Zenith for zero.
4-1
Round 6: ID.
4-1-1
Top 8: I get paired round 1 with Chris playing Zoo, my only semi-difficult matchup in the T8. Whoever starts is usually at a huge advantage, so I'm pretty happy to win the roll. I play Volcanic, go. He drops a Taiga and a Nacatl, which I bolt EoT. On my next turn I Waste his Taiga and hold up Stifle mana. He keeps drawing land, but no gas except for a Sylvan Library. My Goyf gets in for some damage and a Bolt seals it.
Game 2 is close. He starts out strong with all three basics, a Nacatl, Kird Ape, and Goblin Guide, and draws two extra cards with Sylvan Library, putting me on defense quite fast. I get a Goyf and and Lavamancer which kills his cat and ape, but his burn puts me down 1 life after I Force a Helix. The Goyf gets Pathed so it's his Guide against my Lavamancer. I risk it a bit and tap out to mance his Guide on the next attack, but he Helixes me afterward while I am tapped out with Spell Snare in hand. Had I chump blocked, Snared the Helix, and then casted the Firespout I knew was on the top of my deck, the game might have kept going. But being at 1 life with no blockers against a Zoo deck with Sylvan Library in play is not a very good position.
Game 3 was a crushing loss. I knew that I was favored on the play, so the match should have been mine. My opening 7 had no lands. I mull into Wasteland and 5 nonlands. I mull again into Wasteland and 4 nonlands. I mull a third and final time into Wasteland and 3 nonlands. Submerge, Daze, Stifle. I figure if I rip a land I could maybe pull it out. I draw cantrips but no lands. Very annoying way to end a tournament. The other decks in the Top 8 were Reanimator, Storm, Stoneblade, Merfolk, Dredge, and something else I didn't see. It also sucks that the prize payout was so top heavy: 1st got 4 foil Goyfs, 8th got $40 store credit...
All in all, I had a blast with the deck and plan to keep playing it. Delver was consistently great all day. Lavamancer and Dismember were each pretty good, too.
Last edited by keys; 10-03-2011 at 04:22 AM.
Why do you guys prefer dismember to fire/ice or to chain lightning ? It allows to deal with an early tarmo/kotr but is it better than some more burns/tap effects (especially against combo decks or control decks).
@ spartan : Congratulations for your finish ! Why do you play moongoose instead of grim lavamncer ? You did not face any aggro decks but in this case it would have been better, wouldn't it ? Also I ask you the same question : why do you play dismembe ?
Forgive my bad English...
Dismember is straight tempo. For 1 colorless, it kills stuff like Tombstalker, Knight of the Reliquary, Jin Gitaxis, germ tokens, and big Goyfs (basically, all the stuff your burn can't kill on its own). It's also good against anything with pro red, like a creature equipped with SoFaI, or Sphinx of the Steel Wind.
Interesting to see people are running mongeese instead of Lavamancer. I've really been digging Lavamancer a lot since he makes a lot of tough matchups a walk in the park. But he's not really beatdown and ties down a lot of mana so in a combo meta as it seems spartan was facing in Italy goose is just way better.
Also 390 people? Wow!
Dismember kills almost every relevant creature in the format for just one mana? There's also the fact that it is arguably the best removal spell since swords to plowshares.
Fire//ice doesn't kill that much these days besides dryad arbor and noble hierarch along with some random X/2's. It's simply a fog against KotR and other big creature we can't handle. It also costs 2 mana, which is significantly more than 1 mana in a deck running 18-20 lands.
Also, when you face zero aggro decks you don't need grim lavamancer. Lavamancer is an anti aggro card; against control, lavamancer is just a burn to the dome type card or kill a mishra's factory maybe. Nimble mongoose shines against control; his shroud ability gives them fits when he resolves and the only answer they have to turn 1 mongoose is an unanswered mishra's factory or a force of will, and we can simply daze FoW to blow them the fuck out on tempo.
Overall, if you expect aggro run lavamancer. If you expect lots of control run mongoose.
Wow that prize payout was awful keys in terms of distribution. 1st place gets 800+ dollars and 4 very hard to obtain cards at that (foil goyfs are very chase) while 8th gets 40 bucks in store credit. 40 bucks in store credit gets you what, one liliana of the veil? Snapcaster mage + something else? Seems rather poor.
Bread Connoisseur on MTGSalvation Forums
Currently Playing:
All flavors of storm combo
Regarding Lavamancer vs. Mongoose:
I played Caplans list (-preordain, + 1 land) in a GPT this weekend. I got my ass kicked this weekend due to repeatedly playing against Control decks with inf. removal and lategame bombs (planeswalkers). My inability to end the game fast enough when my opponents kept removing my threats, mad all my attempts to gain tempo in the earlygame totaly worthless. Nimble mongoose would have been Sooo good in these games obvioulsy, so I'm going to change back.
Still, I can imagine playing both, since 3 nimble mongoose are easily changed into 3 lavamancers from the SB. Suggested SB below:
3 grim lavamancer
3 pyroblast
3 submerge
2 spell pierce
2 vendilion clique
1 krosan grip
1 ancient grudge
I played the same list in Eternal Weekend (294 players) in Spain on saturday and i made top 16.I think that itīs the best list,but i played -2 dismember +2 fire/ice and 1 dismember in SBYesterday I attended the Ovino 6 tournament here in Italy and I ended up 6th out of 390 players playing canadian thresh with delver.
I played every single match for 9 rounds.
Here's the decklist:
4 tarmogoyf
4 delver of secrets
3 nimble mongoose
4 force of will
4 daze
4 stifle
3 spell snare
4 lightning bolt
2 fire//ice
2 dismember
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 wooded foothills
2 flooded strand
4 tropical island
4 volcanic island
4 wasteland
Sideboard:
3 spell pierce
1 red elemental blast
2 pyroblast
2 krosan grip
2 mind harness
3 submerge
2 surgical extraction
Here's a brief report of what I found in the swiss rounds.
Round 1
ur storm: 2-0
Round 2
Canadian thresh: 2-0
Round 3
Ant (with 7 orim effects): 2-1, lost g1
Round 4
TES: 2-1, lost g1
Round 5
MUD: 2-1, g2 had to mull@3
Round 6
Cascade ugr: 0-2 (opponent only lost in the finals)
Round 7
Sneak and tell: 2-1, lost g2
Round 8
Faeries ugr: 2-0
Round 9
Belcher: 2-0
Top8
Lost 0-2 against team america feat. snapback mage (he eventually won the tournament).
The metagame presented lots of tempo and combo decks. There was also a good amount of zoo, merfolk and GW maverick. I actually didn't see a lot of blackbased decks such as rock or pikula, which surprised me a bit after the ban of MM.
Top8 looked like this:
2 canadian thresh
1 team america (the guy I lost to)
1 cascade ugr (the other guy I lost to)
1 gw maverick
1 spiral tide
1 order rug
1 thopter foundry
I was really looking forward to such a finish after several top8's in 45-50 man tournaments, and I finally got it.
I just don't know why there's was such a big comeback of canadian thresh but I'm simply amazed by how many mongeese I saw killing their opponents
Long life to canadian thresh! Welcome back! (if you ever went away)
I really like Delver of Secrets and seeing all those Tempo Thresh at Ovino 6 made me really happy, as I love the concept behind tempo decks, and especially UR/URx Tempo. Before sleeving this deck, however , I'd like to clarify some (at least for me) misty points.
The mainly point I'm missing now is why should one keep playing green for Tarmogoyf and Mongoose.
Normally Goyf alone is a 4/5 turns clock. Delver/Clique+ Grim in team (I'd really play 4, seriously in Europe we're flooded with Maverick and Merfolk so I see no reason of running less than 4, plus is a huge pain in the ass for decks relying only/mainly on planeswalkers to win.) actually keep the same race, but with the added flexibility-board control that Grim (and Clique to a lesser extent)gives.
Obviously, a 18 lands 3colours manabase is way less stable than a 2colours one with 8 Fetchlands, 4 Duals, and the 2 basics. Moreover, an UR list could boast complete invulnerability to Moon effects.
Secondarily, I'm not sold on Snapcaster Mage here. 2 cc+ at least 1 cc spell in a deck built to work with 2 lands is not so good...and other than an additional Brainstorm or Bolt, wtf I get, a 2/1 body? I'd play him only if we still had Misstep legal, but now,I'd really play Clique instead, which is a better clock by herself+ has evasion.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
kiblast, I piloted a UBr Tempo list last week. Granted it's not Tempo Thresh (but this archetype won't be much Thresh anymore without the goose lol). A suite of 4 Delver, 4 Tombstalker, 3 Clique was really really scary when they stick in play (i.e. 2-2.5 turn clock) and a fast clock backed with Bolts.
The only issue I had was: just relying on Clique and Delver is still not enough, because both creatures have very fragile toughness, you will lose to a single lavamancer/fire//Ice/Sharpshooter etc. Another creature with a big ass is needed e.g. Goyf/Tombstalker etc. I've been building quite a lot of lists and UBr has been treating me well, the mana/color is an issue because Tombstalker's BB is a fucking pain when you compare it next to Goyf's super-easy cost of 1G (i.e. sometimes you draw a dual and a Wasteland and want to shoot yourself for playing Tombstalker/Team America instead of Goyfs).
Snapcaster is the flavor of the month/set. Snapcasting in a Uxr shell is terrible. 3 mana for a flashbacked bolt/brainstorm? That's alright, Snapcasting is best played in Uwx or UBx shell, and like you said, just a Clique does a good job at both beating down AND disruption, whereas Snapcaster is mediocore at beating down and does an average job at disruption in the Uxr shell (if you're playing in a Uwx/Ubx shell, playing Snapcasters make more sense). But SCG people enjoy their own series of flavor decks, and people tend to ignore non-SCG events for some reasons. I personally only check tcdecks if I want an idea on what are the good cards/decks being played in the Legacy metagame.
Decks that I care about:
Steel Stompy
UWx Landstill
Dreadstalker
DDFT (10% practice)
Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
The problem with straight UR is the lack of men. Snapcaster sucks. Clique is good but very expensive at 3 mana and requires you to run more than 18 lands imo. Also not having anyone with a big but means you'll never be blocking and loosing out to opposing Goyfs.
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