Since SeemsGood only said UW Landstill in that one, I didn't think of StoneBlade or anything :). Nevertheless Choke is always a good choice in SB I think. Then again lets wait for the Legacy Results from SCG Nashville. Hopefully another Rock list makes it to the tops.Top 8'ed a local 40 man tourney today, running my SFM/no GSZ/3 Mox list. Went X-1 and drew into top 8 with my only loss to UW Landstill. He absolutely crushed me 0-2. Of course I got paired against him again in Top 8 and was blown out again 0-2. What are people running in the board against this deck? I know it's not that prevalent anymore, but it seemed like I just absolutely scooped to this build...granted my SB was almost completely geared vs. storm combo and reanimator so I didn't really have anything good against him.
First there will be utter carnage AND THEN CAKE
I finished 4-1-2 in a tournament with 78 participants yesterday, playing the following list:
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wasteland
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Maze of Ith
3 SDT
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
2 Deed
2 Vindicate
4 TS
4 Hymn
1 Duress
4 StoP
4 SFM
4 KotR
4 Goyf
4 Dark Confidant
//sideboard:
2 Null Rod
2 Path to Exile
2 Krosan Grip
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Duress
3 Extirpate
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Crypt
1 Deed
2-0 vs. ANT
0-2 vs. Lands
1-1-1 vs. Bant
2-0 vs. Blade Control I assume (have seen Shackles, SFM, CB+Top, Swrd of the Meek)
1-1-1 vs. Stax (Game 3 I'm on 61 life but without anything on the board while he is down to 8 life but has Crucible+Smokestack+Trinisphere, then the turns are called and we draw)
2-0 vs. Deadguy
2-0 vs. RWB Aggro (have seen Cnfidants, Grunt, Steppe Lynx and lots of removal)
I could probably specify this later, if I'm wanted to do so.
The deck was consistent all day long, the only bad draws were against Bant (found not a single piece of Removal in G3 but had Top+Confi online for aeons -.-) but shit hapens from time to time.
I'm curios how you would board against Stax, I did the following (or at least something similar):
Game 2 (I had won G1): out Duress, 3 Thoughtseize, 3 SDT (7) // in 2 Sculler,2 Null Rod, Deed, 2 Grip (7)
Game 3 (I had lost G2): out 4 STP (4) // in 3 Thoughtseize, Duress (4)
Was I to afraid of Chalice on 1 in Game 2?
Matt: UW Landstill is neither StoneBlade nor Thopters - it's UW Landstill. Standstill, Jace, Mishras, Crucible, removal en-masse.
To be fair I'd say UW StoneBlade is an abyssmal matchup too if you don't have the correct board.
standstill to me is not blade control nor thopter. It is 34 counters standstill and jace.Originally Posted by berry
No way in hell can you beat that deck.
Does this deck have any way of beating standstill decks? They have too many answers to our 8 threats that can kill them in the tradtitional build. To me it seems like hymn you? Ok you jusr draw three next turn. Isn't it better to put that match down as a more than likely loss and prepare ourselves for decks we can realistically beat?
Post-board against UW Thrun is so amazing card. If your meta is heavy with this kind of control decks try two in sideboard.
Avatar: That's exactly what I said..?
kubalonek: I agree that it's great, but they will most likely have WoG, I think. But yeah, I roll with Thrun for my GSZ, always. :)
What Standstill based decks are you referring to? The best way to beat Standstill is by blowing it with Hymn or something.
Sure, they'll have WoG, but it doesn't mean they'll have everything for your everything. 34 counters + jace + standstill isn't unbeatable, but I'm not saying if they have T1 Force for your anything into Standstill into a hand full of counters you'll win. No deck will. Even against Stoneblade back when they played 15 counters, they can't have it all. Again, Chains is good against Standstill/Brainstorm/Jace. If Standstill comes back, setting up Chains again isn't a bad idea. It was better with Visions, since you had 4 turns to go off.
Again, Thrun is good in that matchup. Basically, you have to grind advantage as much as possible with discard and your card manipulation. If it's really a problem deck for your meta, you'll have to change the build and run different stuff. Maybe you'll have to run Revokers, or MB Thrun, etc.
If you were really running into tons of trouble with a deck like UW Standstill, I'm wondering why. a) Why is it being played without Mental Misstep (which really made the deck good), b) Why is the person playing the deck...in general?
I guess if you really wanted to hose the matchup:
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Touarch
4 Life from the Loam
4 Choke
1 Worm Harvest
In all honesty though, if you were running into a ton of Mono Blue, I'd run a more Zoo-like build with GSZ, Ooze, Qasali, Thrun, and grips in the board.
Board: (assuming 2-3 Qasali main, 1-2 Teeg main, 4 GSZ)
4 Choke
2 Grip
3 Thrun
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
+ other
I mean, I could run against the deck more to try and help, but it honestly never comes up locally or even in the States where I play at times. The deck honestly isn't amazing against most of the format, so I don't think there's tons to worry about. There is a reason why Stoneblade was played and Landstill never took off after the switch.
Honestly, in most tournaments now, you'll run into/should be prepared for:
NO RUG
Stoneblade (since some people will still try to make both work)
Junk mirror (apparently, more people play this than I think...)
Merfolk
Goblins
Zoo
CounterTop Thopter
Tempo Thresh/Midrangy stuff
Team America/Esper America
Dreadstill (maybe?)
TES
High Tide/43 Lands/Expensive.deck
Bant
Stax (there's usually one person playing it, this is EASILY dealt with by playing Deeds, Vindicate, Teeg, and Qasali)
Painter
We're well positioned against most, but not all, of those decks. Are we 70/30 against them? No, but we're at least got a decent shot against most of them. Sure, 43 lands or High Tide can be a beating, but if you find me a deck that's 70% against all of those, there's a cookie in it for you.
-Matt
Correct, I was not talking about UW Stoneblade, I was talking about exactly what berry described here. Unfortunately I took the Chokes out of my board for this event because, frankly, I don't think theyre as relevant in this meta, but who knows.
I hear a ton of good things about Extirpate, I may have to consider making space in my SB..
I think the point here may actually be how lol of a deck UW Landstill is these days - you won't have a board against it because it isn't played much.
Also: How can you possible forget Reanimator in your meta-list? Geez, Louise! ;)
Matt, good questions - I think it was just a chance occurrence and I'm not worried about seeing this deck much in the near future. I was more so just posting to see if people had suggestions for 2-4 slots of my board that could afford to be dedicated to this deck considering how bad of a matchup it is. The guy that played this deck, in his words, "has been playing it for 6 years", throughout various metas and also plays a Vintage version, apparently with success. It's a pet deck that also happens to be pretty good. I don't think it's positioned very well in this format but it was good enough to wreck me and any other midrange that he ran in to.
Berry - I didn't forget reanimator, I sleeved up several SB slots for it. Do you really think Choke is that good against it?
The best cards against Reanimator are Thoughtseize, Duress, Extirpate, Extraction, Metamorph, Tariff, STP, and Path.
Sorry I forgot about Reanimator, only one guy plays it here. :P
-Matt
Seems Good: I was talking to matt. :)
Matt: You forgot Karakas! I thought Reanimator was finally gonna go big after Indy but didn't do well now in Nashville, how sad.
Can't believe I forgot Karakas. Silly me. Must be all the turkey and stuffing (Canadian Thanksgiving, woot!)
-Matt
This was largely ignored, but an interesting read nevertheless. Thanks for the lecture.
Don't forget about Bojuka Bog.
If Karakas is in hand against Reanimator should it be slow-rolled if you're not short on mana? If they have not used an Entomb they'll likely grab Angel of Despair or Terastodon. For reference I'm playing the Fisher list with a slightly different board.
I tihnk that's true: If you don't NEED the mana, wait.
Damion, I also liked the history lesson, I just didn't feel I needed to comment :P
-Matt
x2
x3.
+ Yeah, always wait and fetch the Karakas in response to stuff with your Knight, don't have it laying around, reanimator WILL waste it, bye bye.
There are Reanimator decks with Wasteland?
I don't know, I always want to be prepared for Jin-Gitaxias. If I don't have removal, I want that Karakas up every turn.I tihnk that's true: If you don't NEED the mana, wait.
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