U/b DelverAmerica

[troopatroop]

4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tombstalker

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Spell Snare
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Ponder
1 Dismember
3 Ghastly Demise

4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
1 Swamp
1 Island

Blue just got an aggressive 1 Drop. This is both fun and broken, because it splashes into anything aggressive, which blue can now be! This deck aims to exploit both Tombstalker and Hymn to Tourach on the splash. The deck needs a big finisher, and Hymn is just an excellent card. Snapcaster Mage is at his best in this deck, with Stifle, Spell Snare, and Hymn being amazing. Tombstalker and Insectile fly over for damage, while 4 Removals + Snapcaster can check Goblins and Merfolk pretty well. 31! Instants and Sorceries for Delver, and you can't do much better than that. I'm unsure how 9 threats will pan out, but the evasion is what's so appealing. It's truly amazing how good blue is now, and I'm very excited to play these new creatures in live tournaments. The deck absolutely manhandles anything combo, can Stifle/Waste its way to victory against anything, and has a better aggro matchup than ever before with Snapcaster Mage. I've been very impressed with black so far, and Tombstalker is an incredible creature to be able to support. I also love playing such a Rock hard manabase. I'm currently giving thought to Sinkhole and Diabolic Edict. Another big card for this build is Perish from the board, which solves much of its ground problems. Comments? All feedback is welcome :)

[caiomarcos]

I don't see much synergy between Snapcaster Mage and Tombstalker. Playing either makes the other significantly less powerful.

[mchainmail]

Play 10 games against Zoo and 10 games against Goblins.

If you win more than 2 against either deck, I would be very, very surprised.

[troopatroop]

Play 10 games against Zoo and 10 games against Goblins.

If you win more than 2 against either deck, I would be very, very surprised.

I'd expect to win 4 against Zoo and 5 against Goblins. Also, I would board heavily for these decks. Plague and Perish ftw?

I don't see much synergy between Snapcaster Mage and Tombstalker. Playing either makes the other significantly less powerful.

First, with only 2 Tombstalker and 3 Snapcaster Mage, there are some reasonable assumptions we can make.

1: We'll most likely be casting Snapcaster Mage before Tombstalker, both for mana reasons and the fact that we only play 2.
2: There will be many games where the cards aren't seen in tandem.

Delve lets you pick the cards, and I usually have no problems. You could say the same for Ghastly Demise. Cast Tombstalker last, like a finisher.

Zoo and Goblins are the decks worst matchups. If you don't think Snapcaster Mage helps a fuckton, I don't think you have much credibility.

[mchainmail]

I'd expect to win 4 against Zoo and 5 against Goblins. Also, I would board heavily for these decks. Plague and Perish ftw?

Zoo and Goblins are the decks worst matchups. If you don't think Snapcaster Mage helps a fuckton, I don't think you have much credibility.

So you're saying you're 40 and 50 % against your bad matchups?

There goes your credibility...

[GGoober]

What's your main goal with this deck? To kill an opponent fast under tempo or to just play tempo for the hell of playing tempo and slowly kill your opponents off?

Mainly asking because the 2 Tombstalkers just seem that you're not sure what the main role of the deck wants to do. I would say going -1 Snapcaster. -1 another card (maybe 4th Hymn or 4th Daze) +2 Tombstalkers will make your deck a little more towards the aggressive tempo plan. The issue with tempo is if you don't have enough beaters relying on your 7 cantrips, the tempo you gain isn't returning you anything.

If you don't like the +2 Tombstalkers, then you are approaching it in a slower tempo to gain towards the mid-game, in which case, you need some mid-game plan, like Jace or something.

[Qweerios]

If you want to abuse tempo and carefully prepare your draws for Delver, you should play Dark Confidant and Tombstalker, screw Snapcaster. Given the Team America disruption suite and 8 cantrips, I would go for one of the following creature suites:


4 Delver of Secrets
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tombstalker


or


4 Dark Confidant
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

[NathanS2k]

If you want to abuse tempo and carefully prepare your draws for Delver, you should play Dark Confidant and Tombstalker, screw Snapcaster. Given the Team America disruption suite and 8 cantrips, I would go for one of the following creature suites:


4 Delver of Secrets
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tombstalker


or


4 Dark Confidant
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

That's pretty brave!

[Qweerios]

Yeah man, live life... it's all or nothing!

[GGoober]

Greatness, at any cost.

Bob does not fit in a tempo shell if you don't have a solid beater. Too bad Tombstalkers + Bob usually don't work out well. Dark Tempo Thresh can utilize Bobs because Goyf is still very solid at beating. Delver is solid but a little situational and easier to kill.

But the 2nd list is basically Dreadstill lists opting to play some Snapcaster.

I still don't get the whole big hype with Snapcasters. Maybe I'm wrong like I'm wrong with Batterskull, but I doubt it this time. If you really want to x-1 your opponents, black has Engineered Plague, Perish, EE etc which all do a great job at x-1'ing your opponent without diluting the maindeck. I doubt the above list will have a good time with Goblins. I barely break even with the UBr tempo delver list I played last weekend (4 bolts, 2 fire/ice, 3 Tombstalkers, 4 Delver, 3 Cliques, postboard 3 Lavamancers). Goblins will fetch up a sharpshooter, slow-roll you to the late-game since this deck lacks a clock currently and you'll lose to 1/1 dorks.

The games I won were pretty close, I was essentially racing even if I was countering/stifling/bolting/fire//icing his field. Ringleaders/War Marshal/Warchief are all big problems if resolved even if they don't seem like big problems. Zoo should be a favorable matchup until they slam a Lavamancer, and it's GG because you only play 2 Tombstalker, which they have plenty of removal. That was the uncertain point with my UBr list last weekend as well, since without Tombstalkers, Cliques/Delvers aren't reliable beaters if your opponent lands something like Lavamancer/Shackles.

[jlagrav]

That's pretty brave!

I've played bob with emrakul in a crazy mono black control deck I used to run. Flipped it over once when I was at 16 life, it was pretty hilarious

[troopatroop]

So you're saying you're 40 and 50 % against your bad matchups?

There goes your credibility...

Flames removed. -zilla


What I was saying, is that I do well against goblins. Granted, the build I'm playing against plays Fetches, Duals, Waste, and Port, so on the play I can really mess them up. If I thought that I'd be playing against more Aggro, I'd be playing a red core with Grim Lavamancer + Bolts, but my findings were that Snapcaster already does work in those matchups, reccuring Ghastly Demise to kill anything and block. Let's say Zoo is 35% and Goblins is about 40%. If Stifle/Waste isn't good against the Goblins you're playing against, then it's not even, but in my experience I've had some blowouts. No deck draws perfect every time, and without Vial in play, Goblins isn't that scary. Again, New deck, You've targetted the worst possible matchups, I'm playing Hymn to Tourach to destroy Control and Combo, here's your sign...

What's your main goal with this deck? To kill an opponent fast under tempo or to just play tempo for the hell of playing tempo and slowly kill your opponents off?

Mainly asking because the 2 Tombstalkers just seem that you're not sure what the main role of the deck wants to do. I would say going -1 Snapcaster. -1 another card (maybe 4th Hymn or 4th Daze) +2 Tombstalkers will make your deck a little more towards the aggressive tempo plan. The issue with tempo is if you don't have enough beaters relying on your 7 cantrips, the tempo you gain isn't returning you anything.

The Main Goal is to keep them on the shortest leash imaginable, Allow them nothing. Kill their lands, Counter their stuff, Kill their creatures, and then procede to run them out of cards and win. Hymn to Tourach is a huge part of that strategy, as is Spell Snare and Stifle, but it's Snapcaster Mage that puts this strategy over the top, because it's another easy 2 for 1. If your big gripe with the list is 2x Tombstalker, cut some cards and play some more. They're pretty awful in Multiples and you don't need one to win, but if that's all anyone can talk about, then knock yourself out.

[oldbsturgeon]

I'm glad someone wanted to look at a deck like this as I was also considering something along the same lines. I wonder though would it be better to reduce the number of spell snare and maybe include some thoughtseize?
In addition to that, maybe even adding another dismember or possibly a diabolic edict?
Any idea about including a vendilion clique as well?

[Zalren]

I have been playing this deck casually with my friends. It does pretty well.

4 Wasteland
2 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
4 Swamps
4 Islands

2 Vendilion Clique
4 Tombstalker
4 Delver of Secrets

4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Misdirection
4 Stifle
4 Thoughtseize
4 Victim of Night

I play Misdirection because all my friends play black for Hymn to Tourach and I love sending it back at them.

[sclabman]

This is my deck for the past week. I play Thoughtseize over Hymn as it allows me to get the removal or big creature that will let the opponent race my fliers.

4x Delver
4x Tomstalker
2x Vendilion Clique

4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Thoughtseize
4x Daze
3x Ponder
3x Spell Snare
4x Stifle
2x Dismember
1x Go for the Throat
1x Smother
1x Snuff Out

4x Delta
4x Misty
4x U.Sea
4x Waste
2x Island
2x Swamp

I think the Go for the Throat or Smother should become another Thoughtseize. The goal is to disrupt and then race with your fliers. Having multiples of any of your fliers turns into a blisteringly fast clock but even one Delver is often enough.

[Finn]

This is why I think Delver is the gem of the set. You don't have to play green. A good idea here, Troop. This will not be the last new deck to eschew green simply because it plays Delvers. The fact that it flies makes all the difference.

[Nightmare]

I've been working on this deck a lot lately, and I plan to play something similar to it in Vestal this weekend. I think you're missing a few key elements, which I'll address after that event, either in this thread if I get the opportunity, or in an article discussing the deck.

The deck has serious problems with aggressive matchups, but houses control, combo and aggro-control strategies quite well, especially if you board properly (hint - you need a shit-ton of removal post-board). I think your list is close, Troop, and if you plan to be at Jupiter this weekend, I'll show you my build.

[Zilla]

It feels like it wants a couple of Unearths, but I'm not sure what you'd cut to make room. Also... I mean like. Dark Confidant? It sort of feels like a no-brainer. Is a build that eschews Tombstalker for Confidant feasible or will it not be aggressive enough? It would be nice to get rid of the dissynergy between Stalker and Snapcaster if it's at all possible.

[arebennian]

Meh, I don't know why everyone is so against playing Tombstalker with Snapcaster. I mean, Team American play Stalker and Goyf in the same deck, and some thrash variants are playing Goyf and Lavamancer. Realistically, you only need 1 or two cards left in the graveyard for Snapcaster to be good, surely their is still enough fuel for Tombstalker?

And Nightmare, I would love to see the build. Post it up with breakdown post event.

[Zilla]

After some playtesting, I agree. Bob seems weak, and Tombstalker definitely has more oomph. I also agree that its potential dissynergy isn't that big a deal with Snapcaster, since you can typically leave one or two of the more important instants in the yard to flashback when you need them.

I'm not totally sold on the Snapcasters. It seems like half the time they're amazing, and the other half they're barely useful at all. The deck may want 21 lands to support them more consistently.