I was messing around with some cards and found a couple of Winter Orbs. Do you think that Winter Orb + Gaea's Cradle can be a viable lockdown? Looks nasty, but I haven't tested it tho... just wondering about it.
I have always been a fan of lockdown/prison decks and with all of the mana producers + cradle I'm sure Winter Orb would be very one-sided here but you need to ask yourself in which matchups you would need it. As a combo deck you never really intend to pass the turn so I think it's win-more most of the time. However, if your build is more bent toward aggro then it may be a great addition especially considering mid-range can blow Elves out.Originally Posted by Godmode
An elves list with a MD very near rosses list top8ed the SCG open in las vegas today. With the abundance of RUG tempo decks, I'm going to start running a blue splash for intuition and vengevines md. Intuition because it can also work as a general tutor that helps me go off against non blue "fair" decks and it can even get me cabal therapies in the combo matchups that haven't killed me yet.
So as I mentioned before, this is my little mini-tourney report. 36 players. Overall, I blame my list more than anything, I felt that overall I played very well, there was only one game where a tragic misplay on my part didn't cost me the game but it sure as shit didn't help (saw a legendary land in my hand, for some reason just assumed it was pendelhaven, got seriously land screwed and awkwardly creature screwed for like 5 turns and lost).
List:
//Creatures:
2x Elvish Archdruid
3x Priest of Titania
4x Heritage Druid
3x Nettle Sentinel
4x Llanowar Elves
2x Fyndhorn Elves
3x Birchlore Rangers
1x Viridian Zealot
1x Regal Force
1x Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn
3x Elvish Visionary
2x Quirion Ranger
2x Wirewood Symbiote
//Spells:
4x Glimpse of Nature
3x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Summoner's Pact
2x Crop Rotation
//Lands:
1x Wirewood Lodge
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Pendelhaven
12x Forest
//Sideboard:
4x Elvish Champion
3x Summoning Trap
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Krosan Grip
1x Viridian Shaman
2x Xantid Swarm
This build has been treating me alright for awhile, but I truly feel that a mono-green elves list can't cut it. I think a BA/VV sideboard or Mirror Entity build is better as they offer either a way to go infinite or a way around mass removal / counters. A reasoning on the shortage of untappers btw: I wanted 6 of them in the deck and I wanted to really test out thoroughly how well Crop Rotation works as untappers 5 and 6. They also served as lords 6-7, in theory, having one card that flexibly operates as either an untapper or a lord, whichever you need at the time, -should- be awesome. But it's not. I almost never saw them and the times they did I usually had either a cradle or lodge in my hand anyways.
So, obviously, optimizations can be made to make the deck far, far better.
Round 1- Goblins
Game 1: He goes rishadan port, vial. I pin him on goblins and feel pretty good. I drop a llanowar elf and pass. He sets vial to 1, drops another vial. Weird. I play more stuff, pass. Turn 3, he does nothing and passes, I combo off and win.
Game 2: He goes lackey, pass. I play llanowar, pass. He swings, I block and kill. He drops another lackey, I play a birchlore ranger, he swings I block and kill. I combo off turn 5 after he's stuck on one land after hastily wasting pendelhaven.
2-0
1-0-0
Round 2- Team America
Game 1: Most of what I play gets countered, what doesn't gets killed. I end up in a situation where I have summoner's pact and emrakul in my hand, I have 4 creatures on the board with 2 lords. If I survive this turn, I pact for Ranger, play it, pump 15 mana and hardcast emrakul for the win. Hymn to tourach.
Game 2: Refer to top of post. I mull to six and keep a shakey hand, not wanting to go to 5 against a deck that could potentially hymn me on turn 2 and there's not much I can do about it. I get him down to 2 life, but he stabilizes the board with 2 bobs and jace, brainstorming and putting 2 lands on top each turn effectively drawing ~3 cards a turn for free. Riptide Laboratory and Snapcaster Mage doubling all of his creature removal is too much.
0-2
1-1-0
Round 3- Reanimator
Game 1: This overall just felt terrible. He keeps his opening 7 and ends up not being able to do anything for some reason.
Game 2: He mulled to 4 and lost.
2-0
2-1-0
Round 4- U/W Stoneblade
Game 1: He gets a clique out and ends up stalling me on just a few creatures. He eventually won but I should have just raced him I would have beaten him as he had nothing coming. He clutch drew into the exact set of counters he needed 3 turns in a row and I wasted a lot of time trying to set up a combo turn.
Game 2: Again, trying to establish the combo rather than just swinging him out over the course of turns loses me the game. He was an experienced elf player and we spoke a lot about my deck afterwards. I learned a few things that I'm going to implement into my list. Overall, my list is very much my own and I liked it that way because I enjoy exploring possibilities, but honestly, I'd rather just win now..so, yeah.
0-2
2-2-0
Round 5- Affinity
Game 1: He plays a bunch of stuff, I play stuff, sit back and do a little calculating. I drop Joraga Warcaller kicked 4 times, swing for 15, next turn swing for overkill.
Game 2: My deck is faster, so I win.
2-0
3-2-0
Round 6- Reanimator
Game 1: Reanimator does what it's supposed to and Iona's on turn 2.
Game 2: I mull twice to try and find my graveyard hate, don't want to drop to 4 cards so I keep it, once again Iona on turn 2.
3-3-0
Had that last round been something else, I am fairly certain that had I beaten him I would have been in the top 8 =(.
I will almost certainly be going into a G/W elves list with mirror entity. It offers too much flexibility and resiliency. Vengevines by and large would win most match ups I feel are difficult to do otherwise. Plus, I'll probably build G/W Maverick at the same time so the savannah's will be useful.
Im confused with alot of the lists posted here, i hope you can help me out and make me understand why some cards i see as musts are not played.
Cradle. Some only play 0 or 1 or 2 ?? what are u thinking?. Cradle is the most broken card in the intire list, cradle is the reason to play combo elves. Cradle is legacy's Tolarian Academy. So i dont play 4 no, i play 7! 4 Cradle and 3 Living wish.
Any arguments to playing 0 cradle? or less then 4?
Priest of Titania. Im still splitted with her, the priest always pulls removal. I quess thats a good thing, but this does slow you down. but if you get to untap with Priest in play you win, end of story. For that reason im playing her. But the negatives, she does nothing when you are comboing of and is drawing into her, then she is just a 2cc vanilla elf. any thoughts?
32
1 Quirion Ranger
3 Birchlore Rangers
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Priest of Titania
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Regal Force
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Mirror Entity
14
3 Chord of Calling
4 Green Sun Zenith
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Living Wish
14
1 Savannah
4 Windswepth Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Gaea's Cradle
4 Forest
//
1 Mirror Entity
1 Artifact/Enchantment Removal
1 Ezuri, renegade leader
1 Priest of Titania
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Eternal Witness
1 Emrakul
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Savannah
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Burrenton Forge-tender
Sidebord wish targets needs alot of work. Im not sure what to cut, and what is essential.
Harrison Beach made it to the 3rd/4th place at StarCityGames Las Vegas with a similar list to Ross' . Streamlined combo MD and BA+VV SB.
Semifinals MATCH REPORT: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...each_vs_c.html
Harrison Beach (Elves) 1:2 Christopher Atashian (RUG)
Top16 Decklists: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...06&event_ID=20
Harrison Beach's list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=42144
MD:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Priest of Titania
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Birchlore Rangers
2 Quirion Ranger
2 Regal Force
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Summoner's Pact
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Forest
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Gaea's Cradle
SB:
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Vengevine
3 Absolute Law
3 Krosan Grip
3 Buried Alive
I think that there are at this moment 2 different competitive strategies for elfball :
- combo MD (Emrakul, Ezuri or mirror entity) and VV (with intuition or buried alive) SB,
- fauna/VV MD and control SB (graveyard hate, combo hate, krosan grip).
I don't think one strategy is better than the other, it depends on the metagame.
Here is the list is will play this next WE in the final Legacy France championship :
2 verdant catacombs
2 windswepth heath
2 wooded foothills
5 forets
1 savannah
1 dryad arbor
3 gaea's cradle
2 fyndhorn elves
1 llanovar elves
3 quirion ranger
2 fauna shaman
1 priest of titania
3 elvish visionary
3 Vengevine
4 nettle sentinel
4 wirewood symbiot
3 birchlore rangers
4 heritage druid
1 regal force
1 mirror entity
1 viridian shaman
4 glimpse of nature
3 chord of calling
4 green sun's zenith
1 crop rotation
SB :
2 krosan grip (D&T, maverick, painter, MUD, affinity, landstill)
1 goblin sharpshooter (D&T, maverick, peacekeeper)
1 faerie macabre (combo tendrills, reanimator, dredge, punishing fire, loam)
2 surgical extraction (TT, reanimator, dredge, punishing fire, loam
1 scavenging ooze (reanimator, dredge, TT, tempo zoo, burn, sligh, punishing fire, loam)
1 tormod's crypt (dredge, reanimator)
1 gaddock teeg (combo tendrills)
1 sylvan safekeeper (combo tendrills)
1 children of korlis (combo tendrills, dredge)
1 caller of the claw (every deck playing mass removal, in particular pernicious deed ans perish)
1 vengevine (TA, TT, tempo zoo)
2 summoner's pact (every combo deck)
Your comments are welcome!
Yeah, I messed up the list. The extra 3 Visionary's are supposed to be Archrduids.
I may go with Living Wish, not because it's better, but because it allows for Gaea's Cradle fetching in the sideboard. It also allows for other fetch targets in the sideboard, allowing me to make space for the Wishes.
I don't think I'd be comfortable with 4 Gaea's Cradle...it just seems too risky to draw 2 in your opening hand. I would support 2 in the maindeck, and one wish-able in the sideboard.
Is this a smart plan or should i just go with GSZ? I can go either way, budget isn't an issue (unless you're talking Bayou, which is a little out of range)
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I agree with you : your deck needs at least 2 more cradle (because of many reasons, especially VV and chord of calling).
I don't agree at all : vengevine is precisely the best card against TA, TT and tempo zoo.
without VV, TT >> elfball. With VV, elfball has a 55/45 MU against TT.
With my fauna/VV version, I have never lost against TA (with or without snapcaster mage) grace to VV.
VV plan is much better with cradle.
4 tormod's crypt seem too much. Have you tried scavenging ooze? It is an awesome card, very useful against dredge, reanimator, TT, tempo zoo, burn, sligh.
Guys, lately I saw that the trend seems to plash the deck with either white or black for obvious spells, my question is:
Can a pure mono green version be competitive?
Creatures [37]
2 Elvish Champion
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3 Imperious Perfect
3 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Priest of Titania
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Regal Force
Sorceries [7]
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Green Sun's Zenit
Enchantments [1]
1 Concordant Crossroads
Artifacts [1]
1 Staff of Domination
Lands [15]
1 Pendelhaven
14 Forest
Sideboard [15]
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Thorn of Amethist
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Emrakul, The Aeon's torn
2 Caller Of The Claw
1 Eladamri, Lord of leaves
This is my current list, I know it is an hybrid like list, it was inspired by a dude who went in top 8 with such list in a spanish tournament, I just fixed it a bit second my preferences.
I wonder if Summoner Pact is better than GSZ, so, could it replace the zenit? or if I shall remove some Lord for those anyway?
I am open to suggestions!
I don't feel that mono green builds can be truly competitive.
Especially when they don't run both GSZ and Pact, you want 6-8 tutors. If you're running less, your list is very unoptimized.
@Grimlavamancer:
Your list needs both Pact and GSZ. It also needs at least 4 Wirewood Symbiote. ^_^. I would cut down on lords since they're expensive and counter-intuitive to the combo. That list looks more like aggro elves.
@Sempra:
I think that by now, the living wish builds have already been proven to be less effective. The wish board is clunky and drawing into living wishes when you could be drawing into pacts wrecks your combo turn consistency. The reason my list doesn't run 3-4 cradles is just a money thing.
@Samman:
I agree, and have for awhile now, that elves can only be competitive in a splash. I'm a little torn on Chord of Calling, but essentially it's an instant speed GSZ that costs 2 more to play--but with convoke or whatever that's arguably pretty easy to ignore. It's harder to utilize in the early game but, then again that's true of pact as well (albeit, pact immensely helps the combo turn).
I think I'll be building your new list very shortly.
TY Kich867
So, either shift to the Aggro list, or swap out lords, correct?
May Even go on that aggro side :3
@Grim: Shameless Plug. I think your original list looks Ok, I'd personally cut Nettle, run with Joraga/Archdruids/Ezuri as your lord package (more beneficial for your combo turn) and run 4 Symbiotes (best card in the deck), GSZ and more Crossroads (2-3, ridiculus with Priest shenanigans).
@Kich: Please elaborate. Mono Green doesn't lose anything but storm hate compared to splash colors, and frankly Elves won't beat faster decks with more disruption consistently no matter how you cut it.
@Infinitum, I thought I had a glimps of this list sometimes ago, long ago, but it was a verbal teaching, nor an actual link, thanks for pointing that list out, will give it a try, specially since I have the joraga :D
(hard times dudes, hard times where I live... so I am a bit on a budget issue...)
I won in february 11 a 85 players tournament (100% victories) with this list :
15 forest
1 dryad arbor
2 llanovar elves
1 fyndhorn elves
3 quirion ranger
4 nettle sentinel
4 birchlore rangers
4 heritage druid
4 wirewood symbiot
4 visionnaire elf
4 fauna shaman
4 vengevine
1 joraga warcaller
1 viridian zealot
1 priest of titania
1 regal force
4 glimpse of nature
4 green sun's zenith
SB :
2 krosan grip
2 reverent silence
2 relic of progenitus
1 magus of the moon
1 gaddock teeg
1 viridian shaman
3 natural order
1 progenitus
1 vexing shusher
1 caller of the claw
I think monoG can be competitive but I also think mirror entity is an awesome card in elfball deck that justifies W splash.
Chord of calling is not mainly used for glimpse combo : pact is much better for that.
In a metagame full of SFM, chord is very efficient (when an equipped non flying creature attacks, you block with an elf, tap four permanents to cast chord@1 -> symbiot, then bounce elf). It is useful in almost every situation of mid/end game.
With chord, the deck loses speed but gains stability.
I suppose I should have been more clear as Samman's list pointed out that VV is entirely usable in a maindeck monog version. In earlier posts I was more clear: standard straight combo oriented lists that don't splash a color for some kind of BAVV or ME list will not survive the mid-range aggro control lists like TA, CT, and Punishing Grove combo. They have a lot of cheap / cheap + recurring removal and enough counters to delay you long enough. If they smartly save counters for glimpse and removal for Heritage Druid's / lords, it is very difficult to go off or even mount an aggro plan without vengevines.
So my point was that, the decks that splash are far more resilient to hate and I believe to be more consistent at winning. Since people have begun to splash black or white into the deck, I find that the lists that make it the farthest are generally splashed.
Why not splash? The better elf lists are already susceptible to wasteland as it stands via 3-4 cradles and the bayou / savannah are potentially very safe with a ranger down. Splashing white lets you go infinite with a laundry list of tricks and splashing black gives you a powerful resilient to removal aggro plan.
I already got the other 2 Cradles. Don't have much time for testing, but I could clearly see without testing that I was missing them :P
On the Scavenging point. The only reason why I didn't play it is because I don't own one, and at the moment its price is simply outrageous for a simple Vanilla Bear... oh, wait, maybe it's not Vanilla flavoured, it kinda grave dirt flavoured... hehehe. I'll try to get one, he's awesome!
On the metagame, maybe I wasn't too clear. There's only around 2 TA, and only 2 Can Tempo for 30 Players. The biggest meta here is combo. Also, what is TT? Never seen those initials before.
What you I do in such a Combo meta? And don't say, "don't play elves". I want to. Should I get 4x Surgical Extraction + Thoughtseize. Anyway, the combo is mainly Reanimate and Dredge at the moment, so maybe the Focus shouldn't be on discard, and Faerie + Surgical + Ooze ought to do the trick.
Nihilobstat on Cockatrice. Let's play some Magic!!!
TT : UGR tempo thresold = canadian tempo
If it is a meta full of combo, the answer depends on which combo you talk about :
- reanimator, dredge : graveyard hate (I use 5 slots)
- painter, belcher : null rod, pithing needle, thorn of amethyst, krosan grip
- combo tendrills : null rod, gaddock & safekeeper, children of korlis, mindbreak trap,
- hivemind : (birchlore rangers!), caller of the claw (Emrakul), play fast!
I agree 100%.
So i've been playing with this UGb list of elves:
2 Llanowar Elves
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Regal Force
3 Vengevine
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Priest of Titania
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Intuition
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Tropical Island
2 Forest
SB: 4 Cabal Therapy
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 1 Viridian Shaman
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 1 Vengevine
SB: 5 other cards
I've been doing pretty well against thresh and team America decks with it. After sideboard against other combo decks, 1 drop into intuition for 3 cabal therapy is pretty strong if you're not dead yet. The edric is an experiment to see if it's a decent card drawing spell between regal force and elvish visionary, but it hasn't been too impressive yet for me. The emrakul is for matchups where they can't interact with your combo very well but they might have random creatures on the board stopping your VVs from killing them, and the 4th VV is for control and hymm decks. I'm not sure what my 5 other cards should be yet.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
