Probably the smartest post I ever read from you Mr. Safety. :)Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
I agree, however since there are fetchlands, Brainstorm is not "quite fair", but maybe a bit overpowered. But also some other cards in legacy are "overpowered" and still legal...
THAT IS THE NATURE OF THE FORMAT!!!
Since all the duals and fetches are available it is just natural to pick the best of every color and build a deck. Blue beeing the glue for most of the decks is just the nature of legacy that there are a lot of blue decks...
Leave Brainstorm alone!!!
This is the most childish post I've seen so far in this thread (OMG if I can't play with my favorite toys nobody else can play with theirs either - what are you, 3?). Note that the banning of Brainstorm hurts every (good) deck with LED just as much as it does the blue decks. That is actually the only reason I am not for a Brainstorm ban - I've always hated blue decks, but I do love what BS does for my bad hands when playing Storm or High Tide (there, some truth for you in this BS thread - see what I did there?). As for Vial and Nacatl, it's not like we're seeing many of those in the format right about now.
Lord of the Chalice
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
I blame fetchlands for all this nonsense, not Brainstorm.
Until they were printed, Brainstorm was a modest (yet still powerful) filter spell. It was nigh impossible to reset your draws, as you were still (potentially) drawing dead. Since Onslaught, it has gained an insurmountable level of effectiveness and people have only recently begun to understand how powerful it really can be - especially now that more fetchlands exist thanks to Zendikar. Now, instead of decks running four to eight off-colored fetches, people run a much more precise and effective fetch-base by including the proper color combinations. This makes Brainstorm far deadlier than it was - even with the advent of Onslaught fetches.
Point is, Brainstorm isn't the only catalyst that makes Brainstorm powerful in its own right. Without the help of cards like Sensei's Divining Top, fetches, etc., it really isn't as ban-worthy as some people make it out to be. You ever hear people talk about how someone "misused" a Brainstorm by firing it out with no shuffle effects or at the end of someone else's turn? It's basically the same prospect, only fetches do exist. Brainstorm is a card that can find answers, but not nearly as effectively as it can using a fetchland with it.
It still isn't ban-worthy, however. Not by a long-shot.
Isn't that precisely why Survival of the Fittest was banned in Legacy? It wasn't that Survival itself was the problem, it's that Survival was the engine to a problem deck. Prior to Vengevine, Survival-based strategies rarely, if ever, were above a Tier 2 deck (sometimes Tier 1.5).
Perhaps banning Brainstorm will be a step to ending blue's dominance of Legacy. Without the ability to Brainstorm away dead cards and then crack a fetch to shuffle them away, blue players will have to be more diligent in their deck construction and sideboarding than they previously have been.
Don't Hate the Herd
That part of my post was intended to be childish.
Id really love Wizard to LEAVE us with this FRIGGEN banlist, its ok now. They can do shit on Modern. They can destroy this wannabe-eternalformat. But they should LEAVE US OUR LEGACY!!!
Greetings
You know banning brainstorm neuters control much more than it neuters combo? (e.g. ANT player Duress, takes Force, or goes off and the control player was only able to Ponder/Preordain into what he thinks is the correct card to hold in hand).
All the blue-haters (namely aggro non-blue players) will be in for this ban, and when brainstorm is banned, be prepared for combo to be much more powerful than ever, and we will see even more bannings to balance the format. If you think that brainstorm is the reason why the format is blue-dominant and broken, you are right in some respect, but this is an eternal format. With brainstorm gone, the format needs ALOT more cards to be banned for balancing purposes. If the DCI announced the banning of Brainstorm, they better justify that with more bannings because it would show that they are incompetent at understanding that the format isn't impacted by one-card, namely Brainstorm, but rather the format is impacted by the interactions of many cards.
If brainstorm gets banned, the future banning will be a little like Modern, where they have to mini-ban and monitor the format constantly to make sure it's balanced. I doubt more good comes with banning brainstorm than keeping it around. I will say that Brainstorm is incredibly powerful, up there with Force of Will, Natural Order, Dark Ritual, SDT, LED etc, Goyf, Bob. But it's nowhere as powerful as cards that deserved bans e.g. Survival, Flash, etc
Decks that I care about:
Steel Stompy
UWx Landstill
Dreadstalker
DDFT (10% practice)
Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
Therefore, we should unban Mystical Tutor. You just need to make sure you can handle all those singletons from AdN and Reanimator!
Banning Brainstorm is just the quick fix to make blue bad! You could achieve similar effect by printing non-blue friendly aggro spells. Very undercosted creatures that you can't splash in FoW decks.
Your logic sucks.
Not going to happen. Even Wild Nacatal gets used in Blue Zoo.Banning Brainstorm is just the quick fix to make blue bad! You could achieve similar effect by printing non-blue friendly aggro spells. Very undercosted creatures that you can't splash in FoW decks.
I'm fairly certain that Brainstorm was really powerful before Mental Misstep. They printed Mental Misstep as a risky project to introduce another trump to the blazing speed of legacy (mostly for the combo decks and fast beats like Wild Nacatl.) It backfired. Sure folks were countering Brainstorm with MM (I know I did that a fair amount of times...) but those same decks were using MM's of their own. I say that only as a way to put Brainstorm in the right light: Brainstorm doesn't warp the format. It's a support card that glues decks together. Asking for Brainstorm to be banned would be the equivalent of asking for Polluted Delta to be banned. (If you're thinking 'Huh what? ' than I'm obviously not communicating well enough. It's happened before, I drink retard coffee regularly...)
Ask yourself this: do you play around Brainstorm, as in: it is a problematic spell to cautious of? I don't either.
I try to play around Daze, Force of Will, Wild Nacatl, Chalice of the Void, Counterbalance, etc...but I don't try to play around Brainstorm.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
HOW are you playing AROUND Wild Nacatl?
Fixed that for you.
Team Albany: What's Legacy?
You cannot know the sweetness of Victory, without first dwelling in the agony of Defeat.
This game involves probability and Brainstorm decreases variance. So at the limit of course Brainstorm impacts the game, it reworks the odds, it fixes the game, if just a bit, to your benefit (maybe, but at least maybe). I don't think it needs banned for many reasons already stated but I do think variance reducing cards should be printed in others colors. I don't propose in what form but I do know that the format would become more streamlined and the whiners squelched.
Not that this matters to much of anything but the US has made money they later deemed illegal (1873 and 1933 respectively).
On the real topic though I do agree than the idea of banning pillars of legacy would have major impact on the game as its currently played, though I would think those in charge realize the issues with such a change and would not be willing to risk this.
However recent changes in the game make it impossible to predict any future decision with as much certainity as in the past.
Anyone who eats hot dogs with their mouth is doing it wrong, as far as I’m concerned.
Balance might include 23 of 32 top GP decks not including a 4 x set of Brainstorm. It may force people to build decks that aren't centered completely around the 16 Amigos (FoW / BS / StP / Daze). A Brainstorm ban would have to be accompanied by some un-bannings (obviously) for it to really make any sense at all.
Banning Brainstorm won't kill the format any more than banning anything else, but the 'Skill Intensive' army will certainly raise their flag and run around the yard for a bit.
This is fair. But then why are Survival of the Fittest, Mind Twist and Land Tax banned? All are in line with Brainstorms power level (all except maybe Land Tax pale in terms of fixing bad opening hands) and actually they require way more deck commitment than Brainstorm, which finds itself in control decks, combo decks and aggressive man based decks.
The awful thing is that if those were unbanned, they'd just get played in decks with 4 x Brainstorm (Land Tax! Yum!).
I do.
Most obvious scenario is playing Storm combo. You really need to get that Force off their hands! But if they have U up I just play Ponder or play a fetch and pass, then I wait for them to tap out for Stoneforge or whatever. Only then I Duress getting that Force for sure.
They did ... they printed some great undercosted creatures in Innistrad,
Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage ... oh wait. They're blue. Whoops.
If banning of single card can mean such damage to any format and the blue itself, Wizards have been making blue bad for very long time.
Fixed that. The deck without Brainstorm is at the complete mercy of their opening hand. Fetch, Fetch, Jace, Brainstorm, Land, Land, FoW is an auto-keep. No wonder it 23 of 32'ed.
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