[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

[ThomasDowd]

so the lists everyone's pushing right now are the UBr(burning wish), the 7 chant GP list, and the "german" list. yes? are those the most "stable"? as in I can play against real decks and have a shot?

I'm tired of playing reanimator and losing to garbage, and tired of getting blown out by tempo decks with other storm variants(ANT both 3 color versions, TES) and am looking for a serious time commitment.

if you guys have page numbers( here or storm boards) that would rule, otherwise i'll dig them up here or on storm boards. just trying to get something to goldfish/ get comfortable with. learn the patterns before i play it against humans/ with interactions.

[Chikenbok]

so the lists everyone's pushing right now are the UBr(burning wish), the 7 chant GP list, and the "german" list. yes? are those the most "stable"? as in I can play against real decks and have a shot?

I'm tired of playing reanimator and losing to garbage, and tired of getting blown out by tempo decks with other storm variants(ANT both 3 color versions, TES) and am looking for a serious time commitment.

if you guys have page numbers( here or storm boards) that would rule, otherwise i'll dig them up here or on storm boards. just trying to get something to goldfish/ get comfortable with. learn the patterns before i play it against humans/ with interactions.

In all reality you need to start at page 1 of both this forum, and the storm boards and start up on yer reading. It's something we've all (with the exception of the founding fathers, you know who you are) had to do when beginning DDFT. There are countless pages and countless arguments regarding which list is the best, which colors are the best, etc. In fact, right now on the storm boards there is some discussion over colors with data regarding their matchups.

Some people will tell you to start with the UB version running 16 cantrips and 4 engines + IGG, others will tell you to start with burning wish in the list. Personally, I don't play BW so its not an issue. I'm still running UBw(g) - because let's be honest, chants + swarms + CoF.. I don't know how this deck can lose to tempo which seems like the only DTB right now.

[emidln]

SDT in play

Brainstorm
SDT
Helm
LED
Grapeshot/Brain Freeze

The reasoning behind this pile is that it's cheaper to win the game with. It requires BBB with U extra as a land/petal on your combo turn that you can use on your opponent's turn. You Brainstorm on their turn (avoiding Canonist) to draw helm, sdt, sdt, putting back a blank + sdt. you draw sdt #2, then play helm for 2 colorless along with both SDTs. you pay 1 to rearrange then cycle SDTs (you drew LED on the first SDT). Play SDT and break for Red/Blue, rearrange to put Grapeshot/Brain Freeze on top, draw it with your last SDT, then play Grapeshot/BrainFreeze. This is a total of 3 colorless the turn after you Doomsday to win the game.

[Malakai]

SDT in play

Brainstorm
SDT
Helm
LED
Grapeshot/Brain Freeze

The reasoning behind this pile is that it's cheaper to win the game with. It requires BBB with U extra as a land/petal on your combo turn that you can use on your opponent's turn. You Brainstorm on their turn (avoiding Canonist) to draw helm, sdt, sdt, putting back a blank + sdt. you draw sdt #2, then play helm for 2 colorless along with both SDTs. you pay 1 to rearrange then cycle SDTs (you drew LED on the first SDT). Play SDT and break for Red/Blue, rearrange to put Grapeshot/Brain Freeze on top, draw it with your last SDT, then play Grapeshot/BrainFreeze. This is a total of 3 colorless the turn after you Doomsday to win the game.

Seems like quite the boon for just one slot.

There are countless pages and countless arguments regarding which list is the best, which colors are the best, etc.

I just look at emidln's post history...

[Togores]

Hello, started last weekend plaing the gp ddft version. and after being a week testing piles and so i went here in madrid to the saturday event and won with that amazing deck, I lost 0 rund and only drawed against counterbalance.

After plaing it i changed on the gp list the 3rd ponder for tendrills because in lot of situations i needed to play burning but my oponent had or could have surgical/extirpate and if i play it i would loss, so a tendrills went main deck.

and with this change i have to questions.

1st this hand comes some times so may be its posible to win turn 2 with it.

underground
undergound
2 fetchland
doomsday
ritual
brainstorm or Ponder
+
fetch

its said we started that game and the fetch is the card we draw on turn 2, is there any pile that we can winn starting with the brainstorm or may be ponder on turn 2? we know that the oponenent is plaing a deck without counters or disruption cards, so we can go off without problems.

and second question, is it posible to make piles of only 4 or less cards?

thanks^^

[Maxe]

After plaing it i changed on the gp list the 3rd ponder for tendrills because in lot of situations i needed to play burning but my oponent had or could have surgical/extirpate and if i play it i would loss, so a tendrills went main deck.

Ur opponent cant extirpate Burning Wish because it gets exiled on resolution.

and second question, is it posible to make piles of only 4 or less cards?

Yes u can, if ur grave and library contains fewer than 5 cards.

[Togores]

Ur opponent cant extirpate Burning Wish because it gets exiled on resolution.


Yes u can, if ur grave and library contains fewer than 5 cards.

but if he counters it or discards from my hand he can do it.

and i mean doing less than 5 cards when i have like 40 cards left, so i understand its not posible to do it.

thanks^^

[metalhead]

The rulings on getherer say that you must get five cards if you have 5 or more. If you have less than 5 all cards must be used.

[John Cox]

So I've been playing with Gitaxian Probes over Sensei's divining top (-I know it sounds like a bad idea) and its actually working well for me. Has anyone tried this and had similar results?

[Chikenbok]

So I've been playing with Gitaxian Probes over Sensei's divining top (-I know it sounds like a bad idea) and its actually working well for me. Has anyone tried this and had similar results?

No tops at all...? Always been the strongest piece of the puzzle for me, I could understand tops PLUS probe.. but... no tops?

[John Cox]

Yeah I had tops in there, but I ended up not needing them for piles. When I took them out I ended going ponder for turn one and brainstorm for turn two. Top never seemed to need a turn.

[Pulp_Fiction]

This is why I rarely ever post combo comments on the Source anymore. I have played DD for a long time .... playing anything less than 4x Top is wrong. Its that simple. U win the majority of games with few cards in hand and Top in play. I can barely begin to understand the ridiculousness of this statement. Its like telling UW Stoneforge Bullshit to cut Batterskull ...

Playing anything less than 4x Top in DDFT is just wrong and u will lose games because of it. There is no further justification needed.

EDIT: Welcome to my blocked list :)

[ThomasDowd]

So I've been playing with Gitaxian Probes over Sensei's divining top (-I know it sounds like a bad idea) and its actually working well for me. Has anyone tried this and had similar results?

The filtering of top, plus the piles you get access to I feel are worth the inclusion. Probe is a one shot deal that is even on card parity, top is an investment of time and mana and a card but it equals out in card parity later (when you typically win). Plus seeing more cards is very good. The power of top plus fetchlands in terms of selection is probably one of the best interactions you have and has pulled me back from losing numerous times.

It helps to think about what each card does before cutting it and what the use of it is in the deck.

[John Cox]

The filtering of top, plus the piles you get access to I feel are worth the inclusion. Probe is a one shot deal that is even on card parity, top is an investment of time and mana and a card but it equals out in card parity later (when you typically win). Plus seeing more cards is very good. The power of top plus fetchlands in terms of selection is probably one of the best interactions you have and has pulled me back from losing numerous times.

It helps to think about what each card does before cutting it and what the use of it is in the deck.

Thanks, I just wanted to hear I was wrong.

[ThomasDowd]

This is why I rarely ever post combo comments on the Source anymore. I have played DD for a long time .... playing anything less than 4x Top is wrong. Its that simple. U win the majority of games with few cards in hand and Top in play. I can barely begin to understand the ridiculousness of this statement. Its like telling UW Stoneforge Bullshit to cut Batterskull ...

Playing anything less than 4x Top in DDFT is just wrong and u will lose games because of it. There is no further justification needed.

EDIT: Welcome to my blocked list :)

You should probably be a little more forgiving when people are trying to learn how to play one of the more complicated decks/ cards in all of magic. Instead of flaming on people you should try explaining yourself in a clearer matter.

I understand that you are upset that n00bs and idiots are trying to pick up doomsday after having "ZOMG PLAY AD NAUSEUM WIN THE GAME!" experience. But it takes time and patience to learn the whole skill set that goes into this deck the inclusion of cards and the techniques for playing those cards. The people who cannot will filter themselves out and so be it. I would save your energy.

The allure of doomsday is very strong it blows peoples minds in the whole room when you are casting that card. So they naturally want to play it too.

Just please speak a little clearer and don't flame people for their ideas but explain to them why it may be bad and offer points to counter with reasoning. If you can't explain why then don't bother trying.

Thanks

[ThomasDowd]

Thanks, I just wanted to hear I was wrong.

No problem, I figured you would want an explanation.

so some situations that I played in tonight that were wrong and right of my opponents.

My elves opponent thought seizes me sees IT, doomsday, top, brainstorm, lands and maybe a silence. He took the doomsday. I was on the draw, this was T1, this is the wrong play. As the amount of cards I will eventually see from top will find me another doomsday and or more rituals to eventually just IT one up. He was not very good anyway and the clock he was presenting was laughable at best so the amount of filtering the top does in that situation is borderline insane. But then again elves is in my opinion not a very good deck. (I ended up igg looping him out (IT -> igg-> doomsday), casting a silence for the storm count with like storm 14? before tendrils. ya' know just jerking it)

in another match my opponent who is very familiar with storm combo, forced my top. that in my opinion is probably one of the better plays since if I can assemble top + turn 3 doomsday, that can beat pretty much any clock he can present as the piles are a lot easier with top in play. also the amount of cards I will see is great if the game goes long and it lets me save my brainstorms and ponders for when I need them to juice my hand to kill them or to shuffle and find a card I need.

on these notes I'm not saying I'm the greatest, I punted a bunch of times and those were what my losses came to. and for the first time ever lost to a mindbreak trap. that was embarrassing (it was to prevent myself from decking against and enchantress player when I had an emrakul going to town, and then proceeded to go on tilt) and throw away G3 by fetching swamp instead of U sea and then when I topped on upkeep it was ponder, ponder, brainstorm. fucking awkward. UGH so mad. I play around wasteland too much and go on auto most of the time of basics good, duals bad, awful habit.

But my losses were to my own mistakes and I also failed to produce a pile when I knew there was one with the mana I had, that led to victory, but ended up killing him via IT chain. So yes the deck is hard, I am still in the learning process but the edges/ nuances are very good, you pick up a bunch of small percentage points everywhere if you can play the deck to near 100% efficiency.

[Occam]

Sdt is the best card in DDFT, and to be honest, should definitely be a four-of. I have seen some comments on lists playing with 3, which is possible if you are genuinely going for a faster goldfish (let's face it, any deck leaning on top is going to be slower in general) or if you are hybridising. Still not really good reasons, but reasons nonetheless. Top is the best card because:

1) DDFT is inherently a slower combo deck. Slower combo decks make up for the lack of speed with resilience, and top gives the deck a lot of resilience. Playing the deck's namesake lands sees a lot of cards and filters our the chaff. That is the single best reason to play top in any deck (and also why ANT should be playing top if they are actually leaning on cantrips to find business -- it is far better than preordain and especially probe in ANT). Top is fantastic against tempo and is DDFT's best weapon in g1 against tempo, outside of chant for those who play it.

2) Resilience against discard, and allows for a greater hand size against control. Top in addition to judicious casting of artifact mana against discard allows the deck to essentially never go down to 0 in hand, as your top card is a virtual card in your hand. The same applies for control matchups. The card selection and being able to untap with 9 cards vs 7 means that Doomsday rolls over control as long as it is competently piloted.

3) Cantrips are combo pieces. Having a permanent one allows you to be more aggressive with cantrips, either by playing them or going off faster because cantrip + top piles only need 4 mana to win the game. One of the hardest things to micromanage with DDFT, especially when transitioning from AdN-based builds is the playing of cantrips. Play too many, and you can't actually go off efficiently as you lack a way to draw into the pile without passing the turn. Play too few, and you can't actually draw into business. Top makes a lot of that null, in addition to creating cheaper piles.

A lot of piles which involve protection, Wish or CoV also involve top to be feasible. IT/LED into DD is also made possible by sdt.

Tops are also combo pieces with helm of awakening to get around teeg/canonist.

4) Tops generate storm. If your basic IU pile goes like IU/LED/LED/non-bs cantrip/Toa, having a top on board means you convert additional mana beyond the fourth into storm. Other situations exist.

5) DDFT is the combo deck that best abuses LED. Doomsday itself, bs + draw effects, top, and BW and/or IT all abuse LED. Sdt is a huge part in converting LED into black lotus.

6) Other minor reasons exist. Playing a tundra/trop (and now volc) and a top represents control, which can change how an opponent plays. Top is also better against certain forms of disruption like JTMS and Clique.

[Pulp_Fiction]

You should probably be a little more forgiving when people are trying to learn how to play one of the more complicated decks/ cards in all of magic. Instead of flaming on people you should try explaining yourself in a clearer matter.

I understand that you are upset that n00bs and idiots are trying to pick up doomsday after having "ZOMG PLAY AD NAUSEUM WIN THE GAME!" experience. But it takes time and patience to learn the whole skill set that goes into this deck the inclusion of cards and the techniques for playing those cards. The people who cannot will filter themselves out and so be it. I would save your energy.

The allure of doomsday is very strong it blows peoples minds in the whole room when you are casting that card. So they naturally want to play it too.

Just please speak a little clearer and don't flame people for their ideas but explain to them why it may be bad and offer points to counter with reasoning. If you can't explain why then don't bother trying.

Thanks

I totally am. Now, I am absurdly drunk now but earluier tonight I was talking to a fellow combo player who is ... not the best but ... he has played combo for a lot of years. What bothers me is that people try and playtest this deck then say "oh .... this is really good" to the players who know how bad it is. Really, I just played Burn in my local tournament with Ensnaring Bridge and made it to a top 4 split. I even wrote a short tourney report but .... this is by no means the definitive list. I had success once ..... it was surprising but .... anyone who has ever played DD knows how important Top is. Suggesting cutting it is just ignorance. He didn't even post his list but before we see it ... its wrong. Playing DD without 4x Top is wrong, anyone who has taken the time to play the deck and read the piles will know that.

[Chikenbok]

New sexy party time deck I've been playing with to a great much success:

4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
2 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island

4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
3 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Doomsday
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Ponder
1 Meditate
3 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Burning Wish
4 Gitaxian Probe



SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 4 Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 2 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Deathmark
SB: 1 Doomsday
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Pulverize
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens

Have 4 top, 4 brainstorm, 4 ponder, 4 probe is kind of nuts.. like.. kind of completely nuts. I'm still never switching over the IU simply because, well.. I like being able to play around snare but we don't need that debate again. I got too fed up with IT so I threw em out and put the BWs back in the deck.

I kind of miss my MD Rain of Filth and MD CoV so I might go back down to 1 petal and put back in my utility cards - even though I feel like RoF is trying to do the same thing another petal is, that is, speed up the deck.

Comments welcome.

[Final Fortune]

What exactly does Gitaxian Probe contribute to the deck and the piles if you aren't using IU to draw into Gitaxian Probe plus 2 Lion's Eye Diamonds for the 6 mana pile into your Burning Wish -> Tendrils of Agony? Are you just using Gitaxian Probe to increase the number of manaless cantrips into Doomsday (i.e. increase your speed) and are you certain that's better than just playing Pre-Ordain?

I don't think you need the Tendrils of Agony MD, if you're worried about Extirpate you can just SB in an extra Tendrils of Agony from the SB (I've liked having access to an extra Tendrils of Agony and Ill Gotten Gains in the SB to board in vs. aggro personally)