[Deck] Solidarity

[SupREME-10]

Another issue I have is using the Cunning Wish correctly; some people are saying to run 4 maindeck, but I find that drawing a second is not that great. I am also unsure what exactly I can target with the Cunning Wish, as I read that you can hit Exiled cards as well as your Sideboard; but I would like to know the ruling on that play.

Cheers and thanks in advance

[ScatmanX]

Another issue I have is using the Cunning Wish correctly; some people are saying to run 4 maindeck, but I find that drawing a second is not that great. I am also unsure what exactly I can target with the Cunning Wish, as I read that you can hit Exiled cards as well as your Sideboard; but I would like to know the ruling on that play.

Cheers and thanks in advance

It was suggested that you run a 4th Wish because you run only 3 High Tides in your main, so if you don't find one, you'll have to Wish for it.

@ruling: Unfortunately it changed. We can no longer Wish for Exiled cards. Only the 15 from the SB.

[Vacrix]

Thanks a lot guys, as that was exactly the type of info I needed.

I appreciate the comment about adding a 4th Cunning Wish; but I don't own that yet, so once I trade into it I will make that adjustment. I play 61 cards for personal reasons and will continue to do so -- thanks for the comment and I fully understand that it reduces my margin of Win-Con by x%.

I will let you know how it goes for me; I do most of my playtests vs Merfolk, Sligh, Dredge, Goblins, Pox and The Rawk and so far Pox & The Rawk are just friggin nuts for their Land & Hand disruption, so any advice vs those two particular decks would be appreciated as well. Otherwise I guess 1 million more practice games to go.

Cheers

Another idea... don't play FoI. Its a POS compared to Peer Through Depths. Peer can be used to set up on turn 2/3/4, FAR more effectively than something like Peer, and during the combo turn it functions the exact same way as 5 cards is plenty enough to either find a Brainstorm, or another Peer/Impulse, or Meditate/Cunning Wish.

[Kanti]

Another idea... don't play FoI. Its a POS compared to Peer Through Depths. Peer can be used to set up on turn 2/3/4, FAR more effectively than something like Peer, and during the combo turn it functions the exact same way as 5 cards is plenty enough to either find a Brainstorm, or another Peer/Impulse, or Meditate/Cunning Wish.

What you said is so wrong and full of misinformation that it's hard figuring out where to start. PtD is better at setting up but FoI just flat out wins the game for you, and has ridiculous synergy with the deck. On turn 3 and ahead I'd rather have a FoI and once it hits the graveyard I can be fully confident that I can Demonic Tutor for whatever card I need during my combo turn.

It combos with Brain Freeze, protects your cards from Extraction, is great vs Hymn decks and discard. Anyhow, I took out the Leylines from my sideboard as they really only shined in the Dredge match-up (go figure) and well, I'll just try to dodge Dredge. I'm running the same list as always (19 land with 7 fetch, 4 Remand, 3 Wish, 2 Brainfreeze maindeck). My sb is:

1 Turnabout
1 Meditate
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Hunting Pack
1 Rebuild
1 Hibernation
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Krosan Grip
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Mindbreak Trap
4 Flusterstorm

So I basically go +4 Fluster vs RUG and BUG, +4 Fluster +1 Krosan vs any Blade decks, +4 Fluster vs Storm leaving Wish>Trap, +1 Truth +1 Wipe Away +1 Krosan Grip vs decks non-green decks bringing in trouble-some permanents, and add in the Hibernation if they are Zoo, and leave it in the side vs Maverick. Versus Reanimator I go +4 Fluster +1 Truth +1 Wipe Away, leaving Wish>Revival. I flop over and die to Dredge.

Edit: So the Noxious Revival isn't that great. Though it did do it's job at hating out Reanimator just the same I never really used it to benefit me. So it's the same if not worse in a graveyard match-up and I can't Wish for it vs control deck (I consider this to be pretty huge). Back to Extraction it is!

@SupREME-10: Bring in the 4th Meditate vs Pox decks, and maybe vs Rock though I might not as they run KoTR's. Side out Force of Wills here as they are Hymn of Tourach 5-8 when facing Hymn decks.

[SupREME-10]

Good point about FoW become Hymn #5-8 vs certain decks; although I did learn that the hard way.

The deck is running smother guys, as your assistance really has helped to make brainfreeze so much more viable (I was messing it up).

I only own 1 Flusterstorm; but I do see how getting more would help in the SB.

In regard to Peer Through Depths vs Flash of Insight: I will stick with FoI as it also allows me to grab a land if I so choice during my turn 4 (if I have not made my land drop), and honestly this has won me games. Use High Tide, into Brainstorm, dump crappy cards, then use FoI out of the GY to dig some more and grab a fetchland, play it, crack it, get island -- this leads into your Turnabout, some more digging with Impulse or Meditate and sets you into the win factor on Remand+Brainfreeze off of your digs etc. Seriously -- I got it off vs Merfolk and the guys jaw hit the floor as he thought he was safe until I had a fourth land in play (I used FoI for 1 the turn earlier to draw out control -- bagged his control and went for it, winning the game and the match). All thanks to some seriously good reading in here from you guys and a poor play from him.

@ Kanti -- I see that your splashing Green with Tropical Island, nicely done.

One other question, is there any reason anymore to run 6 Snow Covered Islands as opposed to all basic Islands.

Cheers, I am much happier with the deck. 4th Wish will happen eventually.

[Kanti]

You can't drop a land if you are casting Reset though ;/. You can only cast it after your opponents upkeep (So you can combo in their draw step but they will get to draw)

But yeah, FoI will pretty much cycle itself or grab what you need during your combo turn. I usually FoI for like 2-3 mid-combo as I dont want to hit a land but I don't want to waste a million mana.

The only reason people used to run Snow-Covered lands was to dodge Predict as you run 11 Islands and if they Predict you they might hit the Island.

[SupREME-10]

Thanks and I think that I will use Snow Covered Islands; just because I don't see them very often.

Cheers

[Vacrix]

What you said is so wrong and full of misinformation that it's hard figuring out where to start. PtD is better at setting up but FoI just flat out wins the game for you, and has ridiculous synergy with the deck. On turn 3 and ahead I'd rather have a FoI and once it hits the graveyard I can be fully confident that I can Demonic Tutor for whatever card I need during my combo turn.

In this thread I have always been pro PtD > FoI. Why? I never needed it and did plenty of testing with PtD and never wanted it to be FoI once. If you need FoI to effectively go off then maybe you need to practice more. You can chain PtD's together to get to a business spell if you need it, which will be effectively the same thing if you wind up spending 2U to get FoI into the yard to draw, then spend 1U more to demonic tutor and remove your grave... while I just play 2 PtD's chained together, looking 10 cards deep for a business spell.

FoI is win more because once you are going off, you are already winning. If you're a decent pilot, Solidarity doesn't have that much trouble winning after you start playing Meditates and Cunning Wishes into the win. FoI was great and all when aggro was a turn or two slower than it is now... and when aggro control wasn't as fantastic as it is now. If you want FoI in your graveyard BEFORE you are going off so you can effectively demonic tutor without sinking a whole bunch of mana for a demonic tutor.. then you need to sink 3 mana to draw one card on turn 3... Thats fucking horrible. On top of that, you expose yourself to graveyard hating which is even more likely to get boarded in against Solidarity now because people are afraid of Snapcaster. Further, if you do decide to splash green, something else I actually propagated in this thread, then you can effectively PtD into Tangle to give you two extra combat free turns.

[kicks_422]

Vacrix, nice to see you active here again.

I share the same sentiments with you re: FoI. While training with the deck, I had the FoI's because everyone kept on saying how amazing it was - I never got what the fuss was all about though.

[Kanti]

In this thread I have always been pro PtD > FoI. Why? I never needed it and did plenty of testing with PtD and never wanted it to be FoI once. If you need FoI to effectively go off then maybe you need to practice more. You can chain PtD's together to get to a business spell if you need it, which will be effectively the same thing if you wind up spending 2U to get FoI into the yard to draw, then spend 1U more to demonic tutor and remove your grave... while I just play 2 PtD's chained together, looking 10 cards deep for a business spell.

FoI is win more because once you are going off, you are already winning. If you're a decent pilot, Solidarity doesn't have that much trouble winning after you start playing Meditates and Cunning Wishes into the win. FoI was great and all when aggro was a turn or two slower than it is now... and when aggro control wasn't as fantastic as it is now. If you want FoI in your graveyard BEFORE you are going off so you can effectively demonic tutor without sinking a whole bunch of mana for a demonic tutor.. then you need to sink 3 mana to draw one card on turn 3... Thats fucking horrible. On top of that, you expose yourself to graveyard hating which is even more likely to get boarded in against Solidarity now because people are afraid of Snapcaster. Further, if you do decide to splash green, something else I actually propagated in this thread, then you can effectively PtD into Tangle to give you two extra combat free turns.

Yeah dude I'm sure PtD is great and FoI is crap. Even though all winning Solidarity lists have FoI in them, and the topic has been discussed to death by people who have placed competitively (Van Phanel).

Once you're going off it's easy to win, yes. FoI gets you there. But I guess it's just me not knowing how to combo ;/.

p.s: get your head out of your ass.

p.p.s: Having a singleton Mindbreak Trap as a Wish target is amazing.

[SupREME-10]

Well actually I have not practiced enough as I am still making rookie mistakes; but I do welcome the dicussion (all of it). You also don't have to Flash of Insight for 2U and then 1U, you can infact do the first FoI for 1U and draw "Zero" cards and still get the FoI into the boneyard. Flashing from there is often easy vicotry (for me so far, even if I did cheat and cast Reset on my own turn -- 1 time, and the dude is my regular playtest partner, so he is cool with it now that we have discussed that mistake too). We redid the match of Solidarity vs Merfolk, and I won 2-0, then I won 2-1, then he won 2-1... so there are options of win and lose on both sides of the fence and yes I still need more pratice. He also kicks my arse with his Pox deck and/or his Rawk deck; but removing the FoW's for SB is helping, and so is all the other advice. So Keep It Coming.

Thanks guys, and I seriously would enjoy more help with my sideboard (aside from runnign 4x Flusterstorm).

[Spigore]

Placed 2nd in a local tourmanent.
I'm actually playing wishless since GP Amsterdam and I kinda like it.

On the Flash of Insight discussion. I really don't see a way to cut this one from any list.

In the famous words of Seraphus; cutting FoI is like cutting your hands off your arms!

[SupREME-10]

2nd is very very respectable, so Congrats.

I would like to see the list you used for reference purposes, as it might help me figure out where I am still lacking or short.

Thanks in advance.

[Psychovoid]

Placed 2nd in a local tourmanent.
I'm actually playing wishless since GP Amsterdam and I kinda like it.

On the Flash of Insight discussion. I really don't see a way to cut this one from any list.

In the famous words of Seraphus; cutting FoI is like cutting your hands off your arms!

A report would be nice.

[SupREME-10]

OK, I have been doing more practice runs etc and the deck is seaming to work better and better as I work with it.

Most recently I had some ideas about things after I lost a game. I was playing vs Merfolk and we were 1-1 in the match with me on the draw. I kept my 7, etc, etc and got to 4 lands down on turn 4 with draw and business in hand (nice). Anyway, I was down to 8 life and my opponent cheated (AEther Vial) in a third Lord of Atlantis into play EOT of my turn, so I knew that I had to go off now or die (no Turn abouts, or Cryptic Commands in hand).

Thus I wait until his Upkeep and go off. High Tide, Meditate, brainstorm, reset, impulse (leaving me at 6 mana) with Remand x2 and Brainfreeze x2 in hand (and a FOW and an Island I think). Anyway, I do the Brainfreeze-remand-brainfreeze trick and since it is only 5x3 + 7x3 (36) I don't get the win as I needed more mana to get more spells off (spells I had in hand).

Now I think about all this later and here is my question or possible solution to this problem is this. Would it have been better to mill myself on the initial Brainfreeze for 3-6-9-12-15 cards to go for the Flash of Insight, and thus try to flash into another reset; thus re-opening some 8 mana and allowing me to use brainfreeze, remand, (possible card drawn) Brainfreeze for 8x3 + 10x3. The reson I ask this is because I am not sure if I can pick and choose each copy of that first brainfreeze to go where I want so that I only mill myself as far as a FoI and without milling out all my Resets.

Anyway, my thoughts are that I can pick the target for each copy of the brainfreeze to really up the anti on the combo working more often. Thanks for all the advice so far, and sorry if this sounds really dumb; but since they changed the stack rules, etc I get seriously messed up on a lot of stuff (I am old).

[alastair]

I'm 99% sure you can resolve each storm copy in turn. Flip 3 cards for the first trigger, see what is revealled, move onto the next trigger, and the next on an individual basis. ... or halt them to continue the combo and come back for more at a later time if need be.

Also. I'm 99% sure Reset can only be played in their Draw step, and the first oportunity you get is when they have drawn. ie: you cannot win in their upkeep if you need a Reset, and must force them to draw additional.

..... please correct if I'm wrong.

I've recently tried dropping Cunning Wish; but have real hit and miss results for finding High Tide in time. Does anyone else have this problem, to me it seams like Cunning Wish is essential, just for a copy of High Tide?

[cjva]

OK, I have been doing more practice runs etc and the deck is seaming to work better and better as I work with it.

Most recently I had some ideas about things after I lost a game. I was playing vs Merfolk and we were 1-1 in the match with me on the draw. I kept my 7, etc, etc and got to 4 lands down on turn 4 with draw and business in hand (nice). Anyway, I was down to 8 life and my opponent cheated (AEther Vial) in a third Lord of Atlantis into play EOT of my turn, so I knew that I had to go off now or die (no Turn abouts, or Cryptic Commands in hand).

Thus I wait until his Upkeep and go off. High Tide, Meditate, brainstorm, reset, impulse (leaving me at 6 mana) with Remand x2 and Brainfreeze x2 in hand (and a FOW and an Island I think). Anyway, I do the Brainfreeze-remand-brainfreeze trick and since it is only 5x3 + 7x3 (36) I don't get the win as I needed more mana to get more spells off (spells I had in hand).

Now I think about all this later and here is my question or possible solution to this problem is this. Would it have been better to mill myself on the initial Brainfreeze for 3-6-9-12-15 cards to go for the Flash of Insight, and thus try to flash into another reset; thus re-opening some 8 mana and allowing me to use brainfreeze, remand, (possible card drawn) Brainfreeze for 8x3 + 10x3. The reson I ask this is because I am not sure if I can pick and choose each copy of that first brainfreeze to go where I want so that I only mill myself as far as a FoI and without milling out all my Resets.

Anyway, my thoughts are that I can pick the target for each copy of the brainfreeze to really up the anti on the combo working more often. Thanks for all the advice so far, and sorry if this sounds really dumb; but since they changed the stack rules, etc I get seriously messed up on a lot of stuff (I am old).

You pick targets for the main brain freeze and the copies before you start to resolve them. The trick is to leave the remaining copies on the stack when you have found your FoI and go of from there.

[I am the brainwasher]

At first, it is not allowed to play Reset on your opponents upkeep due to its wording.
Another possible play in that particular situation was countering your 1st original Brainfreeze via Force pitch Remand with the stormtrigger still on the stack, then Remanding this Original Brainfreeze in response and replay it or cast the 2nd one to raise the stormcount.
In memory of the first part of my post I would have recommended to mill yourself because you also need a way to tap down his guys or let him draw a card in addition to just mill him because the earliest point to cast reset is the end of the opponents drawstep.
Besides all that, why you wasted the mana on Impulse anyway if your hand already contained at least 1 Freeze, 2 Remands or 2 Freeze and 1 Remand (I think you didnt digged for FoW because the opponent already let your other "important" spells resolve in that turn, correct me if thats wrong) ?

[cjva]

I'm 99% sure you can resolve each storm copy in turn. Flip 3 cards for the first trigger, see what is revealled, move onto the next trigger, and the next on an individual basis. ... or halt them to continue the combo and come back for more at a later time if need be.

Also. I'm 99% sure Reset can only be played in their Draw step, and the first oportunity you get is when they have drawn. ie: you cannot win in their upkeep if you need a Reset, and must force them to draw additional.

..... please correct if I'm wrong.

I've recently tried dropping Cunning Wish; but have real hit and miss results for finding High Tide in time. Does anyone else have this problem, to me it seams like Cunning Wish is essential, just for a copy of High Tide?

you resolve BF copies one and one. So mill 3, mill 3, mill 3, mill 3 etc.

Reset can only be played in opponents turn AFTER their upkeep, so yes. Drawstep is the first instance where you can play Reset.

[Mr Miagi]

Anyone having the time and mana setting up FoI is playing vs a noncompetetive deck or suboptimal player. Peer through depths is much more fast combo oriented. It will dig you for a quality card on turn 2-3-4 or in mid combo. PtD is just great!

I don't know about your metagames but in my playgrup I don't have the time to be fancy with FoI.. it is turn two and three set up and turn 4 is a go.. turn 5 is a luxury..
.
.
resolving a high tide (or what ever the important combo piece when going off) is an art. Often just one high tide does not do it and even if having two forces one will usually pitch the other.

Sry guys, playing a Solidarity in a competative meta is quite suicidal.. being fancy with FoI is a pure luxury..

In the end, I'm not saying FoI is bad.. actually it is great .. but not if you are setting up a turn 4 combo this is where PtD is simply better.