I have been lurking in here for a while and I do wish to comment on the above list; but first let me show you what I am using and with the why.
Here is what I have sleaved up (and I will only discuss things in packages).
4 x AEther Vial -- This is an auto include as most of us know.
2 x Dismember -- Removal is huge and I added these after my last event where I found Standstill simply did not provide me with answers to onboard issues. Yes the life loss can be gross; but eating 4 pain 1-2 times far outweighs the consequences of repeating beatings from my opponents beatsticks. If nothing else, I would seriously suggest at least having 2-3 in your SB.
3 x Daze
4 x Force of Will
2 x Spell Pierce
2 x Spell Snare -- The control package is basically some 11 cards if you don't count the +2 Dismember above. Daze could easily be 4 off, and spell pierce/spell snare have their specific relavance depending on your meta. Overall I see no issue with what your running.
4 x Silvergill Adept -- This card draw is required.
4 x Cursecatcher -- Adds to the Control package.
4 x Coralhelm Commander -- Some guys run 3 off, I like 4; Flying gets the job done for me.
4 x Lord of Atlantis -- I see this as an auto include.
3 x Merrow Reejerey -- Some guys run 4 off and some use Merfolk Soveriegn; I think 3-4 of these is about right.
2 x Phantasmal Image -- I see you have 3 here and I respect that option. I needed a creature slot and I have seen these as dead weight if your hand is S-Adept, P-Image, land and control, etc. Thus I only run the 2; but he can do some insane things and should not ever be under-estimated (copying BoB is one of my favored moves, then remove their BoB with Dismember, and continue to gain momentum as the game progresses -- Yes FoW becomes a risk; but the games is generall over that much faster)
2 x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner -- For my Meta I need her Main Deck and she is something that you might consider as well.
Land
13 x Island
4 x Mutavault
4 x Wasteland -- 20 land didnn't cut it for me, 22 was too many, and even adding 1x Mishra's Factory simply did not work out as well as simply adding 1 more Island.
Sideboard
2 x Relic of Progenitus
1 x Tormod's Crypt -- It is a GY hate package and it works in my area, 3x Crypt works too, same goes for Surgical Extractions, etc; but you best have something to deal with reanimator's, dredge, and decks that use Grim Lavamancer, or Tombstalker, etc.
2 x Umezawa's Jitte -- Helps to level the playing field vs some aggro builds such as Goblins and Zoo, note that I said helps, as those can still be a tough to even match up.
2 x Back to Basics -- I don't have Stifle (wish I did) and I need something to help pooch the greedy mana base decks. It works but it will be swapped out when I get the Stifles.
2 x Blue Elemental Blast -- Sometimes I wish I had more of these (and Sower might be leaving) but vs anything with red you want these. RUG Counterbalance is a tough match so these help a little (for me at least).
2 x Llawan, Cephalid Empress -- I like this, and it has saved me vs U/W control, etc as a lot them are using Spellstutter Sprites, Delver of Secrets, etc as their main creatures to beat your face in. It also helps in the mirror; but you better know how to play around it as well, since you will probably see it being used against you.
2 x Sower of Temptation -- I find here cost a little high and might switch to Threads of Disloyalty as it can often hit enough stuff to save you. More Dismember and/or Control cards might not hurt either. I still like this card; but it is slow for the deck overall.
2 x Submerge -- I don't leave home without it.
** There are plenty of other cards to consider; but my main point is that right now I think that your deck would do better if you dropped the Standstill's for Dismember outright.
Blade Package In regard to a 4-5 card SFM-blade package I don't like it. It will force you to relook at the mana base and open you to other forms of hate, etc. I have found that the more I delute Mono-Blue-Merfolk to other colours, the worse it gets in the long run. I don't think that the Blade package will even to better enough match-ups to even make it worth while after you factor in the delution factor etc.
Snapcaster Mage I have also seen some guys running Snapcaster Mage; but it is tough to use Snappy to target a FoW, and paying 2+ for a Daze, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare is a bit over the top in my oppinion. I do not think that I would delute my Merfolk base any more than say 3-4 cards and right now I am finding P-Image and Kira to be stronger than Snappy.
Thanks for reading, and sorry if saturated anyone or overstated the obvious as I didn't go back and read the last few pages.
Thanks for the good feedback.
I've got a ton of Reanimator in my meta: hence 3-4 Images.
Also a ton of storm combo, so I can often drop Standstill with a totally empty board and still draw off it. At the same time, Dismember is often too small for Reanimator's targets, and dead against storm combo. I'm not taking 4 to remove a single Goblin token. =)
The reasons I prefer fewer Reejeries is that they cost 3. With the printing of Image, I can often keep my Vials at 2. Llawan and Kira are powerful enough to justify additional counters, but I'm not sure that Reejerey does.
I agree that Stoneblade package doesn't work in this deck. See my sig.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
Smart Reanimator will Gin taxis (spelling) or Iona to pooch your hand or colour first. Thus Surgical Extraction x3 or Leyline of the Void and mull to get one is one the best fixes for that.
Stifle absolutely hoses some Combo's like Brainfreeze Solidarity, etc. It also can abuse anyone that has a greedy mana base and uses Feetches to mana fix.
I would not go below 3x Reejerey, that are that good, especially late game to drop multilple dudes and tap an opponents creature out for the win. Hell I have even used Phantasmal Image to copy (Vialed in of course) a Reejerey and then drop another merfolk to tap/untap 2 items at a time.
Oh and don't get me wrong, your list is as good as mine; meta and players make the difference and I need a lot more practice before I think I will bag a top 8.
Good luck to you, never noticed your signature before; but man you hit the nail on the head.
Reanimator really shouldn't be a big problem for fish. As long as you keep pounding them to like 12 life or so, they wont be able to reanimate.Originally Posted by SupREME-10
Fish's biggest problems are the red color...anything with red is a bye for them
I agree unless they get Iona off early, so you need some control in the beginning.
Cheers
The good thing is i use white...so iona wouldn't do anything to me...its a really good matchup with white
I'd also note that you can and will counter Stifle if you play Blue-based combo, and further note that Stifle doesn't work against Blue Sun's Zenith. It's unfortunate that modern Solidarity can pay for Flusterstorm, and Mindbreak Trap can be countered by anything.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
So I played Merfolk in a small local tournament yesterday and only reached a disappointing 2-2. I noticed that there are lots of Canadian Thresholds and Mavericks in my local meta and I wonder what I can change in my list to improve these matchups. I only got to play vs. Canadian and noticed that the matchup really worsens after boarding, because they bring in REB, which is a real pain. Our dudes are just too weak to handle Bolt+Fire/Ice+REB well. The games I won usually ended this way, because I could destory their red mana with Wasteland. I am thinking about maindecking Stifle to I can at least attack their manabases properly. My list was as follows:
// Lands
13 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
// Creatures
4 Cursecatcher
3 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Coralhelm Commander
// Spells
4 AEther Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
2 Dismember
2 Spell Snare
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 2 Back to Basics
SB: 2 Hydroblast
Any advice?
Stifle would help a lot, to stall them out at least. Surgical Extraction on one of the primary Fetchlands or Dual Lands that got wasted can seriously hurt them too.
I would simply retool your SB more like this.
SB: 3 Stifle
SB: 2 Surgical Extractiont
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 2 Hydroblast
Good luck with it, and if it is any consolation I am also running about 50/50 with my Merfolk build.
Last edited by SupREME-10; 11-27-2011 at 05:59 PM.
The problem with those cards (spell pierce, snare, stifle) is Merfolk runs to much colorless mana. You probably need a minimum of 15 islands to successfully cast a spell and hold the U open for stifle/snare etc. Also not to mention it is totally against the game plan of the deck vs certain matchups. The decks that run those cards, hold mana open to counter your 1-3 turn plays then drop a big threat... They also have brainstorm to get rid of the dead cards late game.. Which Merfolk does not want to do.
Those 4-6 slots should be more creatures. I also think it is time for back to basics again, those tempo decks don't run any basics. All those 2 ofs seem pretty good with no card draw
Yesterday presencied a tournament were merfolk was everywrhere. Almost all of them run Standstill in difference with the last list in this page. I really like this card. I run dismember and 8 counters as answers with the 3 cards draw. I think it really worth.
Standstill is 100% meta dependent. It doesn't bother control what so ever, in fact it often gives them time to gain advantage on you and you will gain very little in return (not even cards in many circumstances). VS pure aggro it is great tech so in an aggro heavy meta it is a great card.
I see the // Spells section as having the most variance in the deck itself. Out of the 18 slots some are must have; but a clear 8-10 are totally meta dependent.
4 AEther Vial -- must have
4 Force of Will -- must have
2-4 Daze
0-4 Spell Pierce
0-3 Dismember
0-4 Spell Snare
0-4 Stifle
0-4 Standstill
Some guys even run Umezawa's Jitte maindeck and vs Aggro it does have some great usage.
Cheers
How do you guys beat these BUG jacestill decks?
Very annoying with so many removals and such.
Kira, Great Glass Spinner
"Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."
...Does nothing against Innocent Blood, Diabolic Edict, Liliana of the Veil, or Pernicious Deed. Which are the bulk of the strongest plays the deck will be making.
I think it's a pretty 50/50 match most of the time, but Kira is definitely not the first thing I'd give as my answer when someone asks "how do you beat it".
Spell Pierce seems particularly strong in that match up.
You try to Hammer their JTMS on it's entry or as soon as it lands. Do not let it stick, and the same goes for Liliana of the Viel. I can almost promise you that if you let one stick your battle has become seriously difficult to win; and if you let them stick one of each, then your done.
Fast Aggro can still beat them. But also try to read them a little and watch their mana base. If you can stall them on the P-Deed, then you can often get a couple decent beaters in (1-2 at a time) to get around their removal and beat them down. Focus on hitting them for about 4 damage a turn once established, as you don't want to get your entire board wiped on a P-Deed.
It will be a tough match (at least it is for me), I struggle vs U/W control and U/B control decks that can stall long enough to establish, recover, and then seal my fate. Stifle on their fetchlands helps, Wasteland on their Dual lands helps again, and Surgical Extraction on their non-basic lands in graveyard can stall them more than enough to get your aggro up and beating. Llawan works on both sides of the fence though, so watch for her as well.
One quick question: If I copy a Coralhelm Commander with Phantasmal Image will the current level of the Commander be copied?
No. The Image will have no counters on it when it enters the battlefield, regardless of the number of counters on the Commander that it is copying.
I see more than others do because I know where to look.
Correct, copying a card copies its original state. As a more telling example, Phantasmal Image copying a transformed Mutavault becomes a Mutavault land that is not a creature until separately activated.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
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