[Deck] 43 Lands

[Antonius]

are we still talking about UR here or Mono Red? Against mono red you're pretty screwed. Against UR, you can positively crush their manabase.

As you said, they'll hold the combo as long as possible if you have a Trygon out. But if you're squishing their manabase, then there's no way they'll get the 6 mana necessary to combo in one turn. Hell even if Trygon is the only thing you have, they'll still have a harder time getting to 6 mana out because they run artifact lands, mox opals, etc that just get munched on. If you have some kind of mana denial with Trygon then all you have to worry about is welder (tutor for crypt). Trygon also puts them on the clock.

[ESG]

so. the main difference between my list and most of lists here is 4 creatures in main and 3 Crop in main. for a long time i was reading this thread and i tested different variants. but probably after the first tournament i understood, that we have no quick answers for opponent's threads. so i decided to use Crop Rotation as an ultimate answer to any threat. why do i play Knights? well, in most of games they works like Tolaria and Crop to find missing part of some combination. and they are very good win_conditions against many matches.
i believe, that combodecks like ant and tes are very bad and difficult matchups. of course all decks with Blood Moon and Price of Progress are difficult to play against too, but in this case my board often helps me.
i like stifles in board very much. this card is very unexpected in our board, so we can really surprise an opponent and his relics_crypts

in Amsterdam i played this deck. i finished first day 6-3 without byes. i lost against 2 combo decks and very good hands of GWU-zoo. i guess, that this is a good result for this deck

what do you think about it? for me it is very interesting to read your answers, because here in Moscow i am the only man, who play such decks. so nobody can hel me with discussion. i hope, you can (=

Hi, Loxmatii. I have experience with a list like yours (this looks a lot like the Krödel's Loam list I posted about a number of pages back) and generally prefer Eternal Garden configurations to those of Lands. I post in this thread because the Eternal Garden one has been dormant forever and Lands is such a niche deck at this point that I don't see a big need for multiple Lands-based threads. Eternal Garden is probably my favorite deck to play, although it's rare when my meta isn't hostile to it, so I don't play it much these days.

For those who were amused or bemused by 3 Life From the Loam, this deck has historically favored Crucible of Worlds and Loam as the backup (and an engine when you have Crucible in place). However, there has been a lot of crossover between the two decks. This build probably best exemplifies the balance between the two (having Tolaria West, Loam, Ports, Crucible, creatures and Crop Rotation). Originally, 4 Manabond was considered the only correct way to run Lands, and, as time went on, people started running fewer of them. Enlightened Tutor and Intuition have made their way in and out of Eternal Garden lists and, more recently, they have done the same in Lands lists. Antonius has recently been suggesting Brainstorm in Lands.

Stifle is a very flexible card, and I would run it in my list if I had enough blue sources to support it. (The current list I'm running has somewhat of a different game plan.) This deck can beat storm combo, but it requires running probably a minimum of 6 hate cards. I'm a big believer in tailoring decks to beat whatever deck (or player) they need to beat, so if you could get through your other matches with less of your board, you could conceivably bring in a suite of counterspells for combo decks (and Stifle would help there). Outside-the-box thinking can pay off when your opponents expect one plan and you are on something totally different. I have had the most success with an Enlightened Tutor board plan. Mchainmail posted a list here several months ago that had a strong Enlightened Tutor plan for the storm matchup.

In general, I see the fundamental challenge to this archetype being that it can't currently answer a variety of combo threats. For instance, I'm confident we could design a Lands or Eternal Garden deck that could consistently beat TES, or could beat Painter, or could beat Reanimator, or could beat Show and Tell, but the problem is facing an open field. If you get paired up against the wrong deck, then your gamble fails to pay off. My advice is to tailor your deck to your expected meta and to not run it if there are too many unfavorable matchups in the room. And perhaps we can help in that tailoring process. What decks are you seeing regularly in Moscow?

[Fuzzy]

I'm dusting of this thread to tell everyone great news: Sunday was the Brazilian Legacy Championship, and I'm proud to say I made 6-1 and Top 8ed the event playing Bant Lands.

Later in the week I will post in a brazilian blog my tournament report (In portuguese, and because they pay me to do this - Yeah, I'm really good with this shit), and maybe translate something here.

Just a sidenote, I'm LOVING this format with lots of 3-color decks and Reanimator being a Bye for us.

[fdiv_bug]

Sunday was the Brazilian Legacy Championship, and I'm proud to say I made 6-1 and Top 8ed the event playing Bant Lands.

Later in the week I will post in a brazilian blog my tournament report (In portuguese...

I can't read Portuguese, but I can read a deck list, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you've got. `Grats on your finish!

[Fuzzy]

I can't read Portuguese, but I can read a deck list, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you've got. `Grats on your finish!

You can read everything on Internetz, they translate anything. It's more magic than the game itself!

My list was (in english, because I'm a good boy and it's close to Christmas):

4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Intuition
2 Enlightned Tutor
2 Manabond
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Enginereed Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mindslaver (ScatmanX said I had to play it, so I did)

4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Dust Bowl
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswepth Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Treetop Village

Sideboard:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sundial of Infinity
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Zuran Orb

[Anen]

Hi everybody,


I just finished 3-4 out of 18 in a local tournament with an Eternal Garden Valakut build.

Here was my list for reference.

1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Mishra's Factory
2 Stomping Ground
2 Volcanic Island
3 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
3 Crop Rotation
3 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
2 Scapeshift
4 Burning Wish

SB: 1 Hull Breach
SB: 1 Firespout
SB: 1 Reverent Silence
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Scapeshift


R1: The Gate 1-1
G1: Keep Scapeshift on top with Top to avoid discard, killed him turn 6 or 7.
G2: Jitte with Nighthawk connect too many times, can't find a Maze.
G3: He dropped a turn 2 Bitterblossom, and played slow as hell for the rest of the game as he extirpated my Wishes. 4 Maze and Tabernacle make his 2 Nighthawk and Jitte useless. We draw when he was at 2 life, bitterblossom in play, and completely locked, this guy don't even concede..
0-0-1

R2: Maverick 1-2
G1: I wasted him aggresivly, wich was a mistake when he dropped a big knight. Can't find a maze, qasali hits me for 14 this game..
G2: Wastelock him (1 basic in play and no mana dudes), then drop a Tabernacle -> concede.
G3: No lands for him thanks to wasteland/crucible, but no Tabernacle for me. Maze prevent Terravore (the one I traded him 2 days ago xD) from killing me a few turn, then he got a wasteland on the third card of sylvan library, scoop..
0-1-1

R3: Goblins 2-0
G1: Turn 1 Exploration, turn 2 BWish, turn 3 Firespout, turn 5 Scapeshift for the win.
G2: He kept a greedy hand, and reveals 4 lands on Ringleader.
1-1-1

R4: BW Stoneblade 2-0
G1: Some discards make me cry, but I finally found a wish for scapesift to win.
G2: Extirpated my single loam, it was fun ^^ I managed to survive with a wastelock and 4 ports. Scapeshift for 30 damages seals the deal.
2-1-1

R5: Esperblade 2-0
G1: I aggressivly wasted him, but he finally dropped a Jace. He fatesealed, put a Crucible on bottom and I draw a Crucible like a Champ ! I Immediatly killed 3 of his lands thanks to exploration, leaving him with Jace and a single basic on board. He scooped even if I had no way to kill him in hand.
G2: Loam turn 2 with no lands in the GY just to start dredging, he spell snared (wtf?).. Then wastelock him thanks to Crucible (Boseiju maked him cry :D), port his basics, he conceded rapidly.
3-1-1

Top4: Dredge 1-2
G1: I knew what this guy was playing, and cried as I didn't have any SB plan for this unexpected matchup (it was new legacy player in the area). I opened a hand with Tabernacle, and drop it like a champ turn 1. I managed to kill him with Scapeshift one turn before he could have killed me.
G2: Opened a hand with Tabernacle again ! He killed me with Zealot turn 4..
G3: Mull to 6, hand was Top, Factory, Crop Rotation, Port and 2 Intuitions. Turn 1 on the play Factory-> Top. Turn 2 Upkeep Top, found a Taiga, Crop rotation for Tabernacle. End of turn he discarded some dredgers, didn't pay the upkeep for his tribe, Breakthrough and killed me with Zealot turn 2.. Brutal ! I could have change the game if I had crop rotated for Glacial Chasm, which could have gave me enough time for Intuition into Tabernacle, thats how I misplayed..
I went home with a Snapcaster Chinese.


I expected more Jace.deck, as Needle in the SB is for them, but I crush my teeth on an unexpected matchup. I am going to put some Bogs in the 75 for sure.

What do you guys thinks of the Scapeshift/Valakut kill? I searched the thread a little bit but cant found any relevant answers.

[ESG]

I just finished 3-4 out of 18 in a local tournament with an Eternal Garden Valakut build.

Judging by your report, you went 3-1-1, then lost in Top 4.

I don't know what the rest of the board looked like, but you're probably pretty fortunate your Round 5 opponent scooped to you with an active Jace on the table. Unless you had the means to kill it right away, there's no way he should have scooped. Jace kills Lands all the time.

I believe the consensus on Scapeshift and Valakut was that it wasn't as good as running blue and Tolari West. If you go back to Page 30, that's where some of the discussion transpires. Antonius ran Valakut and Vesuva as an extra win con but wasn't on board with Scapeshift. Tao was a fan of G/R configurations, as I recall.

Anyway, congrats. The odds are pretty stacked against Lands, regardless of the build, so it's nice to see someone place.

[Beatusnox]

I really want to start building this deck and playing it. I have a copy on Cockatrice atm, but with my feeble internet connection I can't test against many opponents, so its hard to learn as its not really a goldfishable deck. =/ Any advice in this respect?

[sdematt]

Proxy it up, goldfish the hell out of it, or get someone to play against you.

-Matt

[Beatusnox]

Proxy it up, goldfish the hell out of it, or get someone to play against you.

-Matt

The only issue i have found with this is that its a very reactive deck, and it hard to goldfish reactively. So far ive been creating scenarios to play through in order to try to learn lines of play.

[Antonius]

Beaux, I still have lands and you can use it on sunday if you want. You just need to get your own mox diamonds. Oh, I only have two intuitions right now. Forgot about that. You could play the brainstorm build I was testing last month. It was pretty powerful.

[Beatusnox]

i think you have me confused with someone else =/ though i appreciate the offer lol.

But yeah so far im liking how it is playing out. Though I am unsure about my list overall as i havent been able to fully test it.


// Not lands:23
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the loam
4 Exploration
3 Intuition
2 Enlightened tutor
2 Manabond
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mindslaver

// Lands:37
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadian Port
4 Maze of Ith
3 Tropical Island
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Savannah
2 Nantuko Monastery
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial chasm
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Treetop Village
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills


some explainations:
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
To also allow to activate tar pits and let mazes tap for mana if absolutely needed.
(does this unbasic lands?)
phone out of room. I will edit in more explainations soon.

[ESG]

some explainations:
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Used to Unbasic my opponents lands

As far as I know, that doesn't work. They're still basic lands; they just can produce black mana now.

[Beatusnox]

As far as I know, that doesn't work. They're still basic lands; they just can produce black mana now.

I may be wrong which happens enough lol, I just thought that a basic land was either a swamp, island, mountain, forest or plains. And becoming more than one of them would make it non-basic.

[somethingdotdotdot]

I'm pretty sure what happens is that the basic lands keep the supertype basic since nothing can change that supertype (blood moon'd nonbasics are still non basic i believe). However, all lands just gain another land type (swamp) and can now produce black mana.

[Serbitar]

Basic lands obviously stay basic under Urborg .... (which would be sweet otherwise though)

[Beatusnox]

wishful thinking doesnt always work =( either way it lets maze of ith, tabernacle, and glacial chasm tap for mana, which is nice. Would like to hear opinions on the list.

[Serbitar]

Yeah, tapping Tabernacle for mana feels like cheating. Running Urborg/Riftstone Portal makes the Mindslaver plan much better - though I am still no fan.

As your spells are the same as suggested above, I mainly have some comments on your land configuration:

i
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadian Port
4 Maze of Ith
3 Tropical Island
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Savannah
2 Nantuko Monastery
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial chasm
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Treetop Village
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
[/cards]

First, there needs to be a 4th Port. The manadenial plan usually is this decks go-to-strategy for winning and Port is very good at that.
Second, I don't like the configuration of man lands. Creeping Tar Pit is awesome, but without mana to activate it besides Mox/Urborg/Bog looks very sketchy. If you are Bant I'd suggest a Celestial Colonnade to attack over clogged boards or at Jaces. It is a lot worse, sure, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with that manabase. I also dislike Nantuko Monastery. In the early game it only has disadvantages to Factory and in the late game it has no substantial upside - despite 4/4 first strike it is still unable to attack through any clogged board. I get that Treetop Village taps for green but this is somewhat offset by coming into play tapped. The dude itself (3/3 trample) again has virtually no upside to Factory.

[Thus I would suggest: -Treetop, -2 Monastery, -2 Tar Pit, + Port, + Colonnade, +3 Factory]

[GoldenCid]

Yeah, tapping Tabernacle for mana feels like cheating. Running Urborg/Riftstone Portal makes the Mindslaver plan much better - though I am still no fan.

In my experience, urborg made always thing easier to me. Makes mazes, chasm and tnacle, at worst, mana sources when they become dead cards. More over, it allows us to run Worm Harvest and Creeping Tar Pit as win cond. Maybe it's subpar but...

First, there needs to be a 4th Port. The manadenial plan usually is this decks go-to-strategy for winning and Port is very good at that.

Very agreed.

[Fuzzy]

I think I'm missing something important here. People are sugesting running a bad card to make other 6 cards (Glacial Chasm is awful but necessary, the others are pretty good) to just... ADD MANA?

Yeah, my Monolands Control deck is really missing some mana sources...