Alex Bertoncini's serial cheating.

[Esper3k]

The thing is, all of these things can be explained by "oops, I forgot".

It's pretty difficult to prove intent. I think he'll have to have a pretty long DCI history of these types of warnings before DCI really does anything to him.

[dsck]

The thing is, all of these things can be explained by "oops, I forgot".

It's pretty difficult to prove intent. I think he'll have to have a pretty long DCI history of these types of warnings before DCI really does anything to him.

You dont forget sideboard cards, if you have them you call judge (like kibler did on invitionals). Notice how the sideboard cards he "forgot" are also good in the matchup (not Tormod's Crypts etc).

[Esper3k]

You dont forget sideboard cards, if you have them you call judge (like kibler did on invitionals). Notice how the sideboard cards he "forgot" are also good in the matchup (not Tormod's Crypts etc).

Don't get me wrong. I think he's guilty, but proving intent in things like this is pretty tough.

[edgewalker]

What about the two explorer's vid? I mean, how do you forget and put an extra land in play, then deny it when you're asked about it? I think asking to have a warning downgraded to a caution is pretty shady too.

[Esper3k]

What about the two explorer's vid? I mean, how do you forget and put an extra land in play, then deny it when you're asked about it? I think asking to have a warning downgraded to a caution is pretty shady too.

There are plenty of times when people have forgotten if they've played a land or not. How often had you had an opponent ask you if they've played a land that turn?

I don't see anything inherently wrong with asking to have a warning downgraded to a caution, especially if it costs you nothing to do so.

[CorpT]

There are plenty of times when people have forgotten if they've played a land or not. How often had you had an opponent ask you if they've played a land that turn?

I don't see anything inherently wrong with asking to have a warning downgraded to a caution, especially if it costs you nothing to do so.

Except that the land situation was easily countable. You could very easily count up cards and figure out what turn it was and how many lands should be in play. But Alex wanted no part in that and wanted the whole thing to be dismissed and rushed past. That was clear in the video. If he was interested in resolving the situation, they could have stopped and figured it out.

[Esper3k]

Except that the land situation was easily countable. You could very easily count up cards and figure out what turn it was and how many lands should be in play. But Alex wanted no part in that and wanted the whole thing to be dismissed and rushed past. That was clear in the video. If he was interested in resolving the situation, they could have stopped and figured it out.

Again, I also believe he's guilty (and from now on will forever be answering my opponents' questions with "Two Explores").

I just don't think it's as simple to prove intent as people seem to believe it is.

[Koby]

The thing is, all of these things can be explained by "oops, I forgot".

It's pretty difficult to prove intent. I think he'll have to have a pretty long DCI history of these types of warnings before DCI really does anything to him.

DCI judges cannot hand out penalties on intent or motive. They can only hand out penalties on actual performed actions. Playing an extra land is a Warning/Warning/Game Loss at REL Competitive. A history of repeated offenses can raise suspicion, but nothing is done during the tournament outside of the standard penalty guide.

[Richard Cheese]

Again, I also believe he's guilty (and from now on will forever be answering my opponents' questions with "Two Explores").

I just don't think it's as simple to prove intent as people seem to believe it is.

[vilik]

The Explore cheat seems a bit strange EV-wise. I would have liked to see the end of that clip and find out if he had Avenger of Zendikar or Preordain into Titan. Otherwise that cheat seems pretty retarded. Also, I didn't know Preordain lets you look at the bottom card of your library. (wtf, random insignificant edge ftw?)

Guy is a REAL magician.

http://mixedknuts.wordpress.com/2011...i/#comment-548

Edit:

For the sakes of actually posting anything useful, here goes:

http://wherethemeatcomesfrom.blogspo...ext-level.html

Also, let me be so bold and point out a few things that spring to my mind from this public bashing (which I btw think AB fully deserves - having seen the videos I am convinced he repeatedly cheated and has done so on purpose).

1) If you play in major (money-wise) tournament, be paranoid and assume your opponent is going to cheat. Act accordingly.

2) If you play in major (money-wise) tournament, be paranoid and assume your opponent is going to cheat. Stop being naive.

3) Judges at major tournaments need to be trained to spot dexterity tricks. This actually seems more vital than knowing rules (as long as there is at least one judge who knows the rules, the others should focus on card tricks).

4) SCG needs to think about how they market themselves. Apparently they need better eye for picking their stars.

5) SCG needs to publicly denounce this. The have lost enough credit as is.

[nayon]

When there are so many misplays and they are so egregious that it's indistinguishable from cheating, then the DCI should treat it as cheating.

[puppektion]

Is this going too far?



If no action is taken, I'll assume as much.

[ramanujan]

Had to chime in here.

The DCI does not need to prove anything regarding intent. This is not a courtroom and they don't have to follow a specific law. They have guidelines which provide guidance, but I assure you that nobody is concerned about proving things. I am no expert but I can say that the DCI will probably make an example out of Alex. This type of behavior needs to be nipped in the bud.

If some of the cheats that he did were this obvious, imagine all of the things that he did when the camera wasn't rolling. I wonder how many of his merfolk matches went T1 Vial , T2 standstill with counter backup. Slight of hand could make someone unstoppable. I honestly bet that Alex chose to lose sometimes because he didn't want to raise suspicion. I don't know that but I believe it to be possible. I honestly hope he gets life banned for this as I don't want to ever sit across the table from him.

I don't blame SCG or any of the judges for this. SCG is there to earn money by providing a venue and prize support. The judges do their best and it is far to easy to criticize with video evidence. Blaming the judges is like blaming the police for not catching the crook. The judges cannot be everywhere at once and I highly doubt that they were in cahoots or anything like that.

The truth of the matter is that if someone tries hard enough, they can probably get away with cheating. There is no fool proof way to do a paper tournament which does not get exposed to this risk. The best deterrent is probably the stiffest punishment possible.

As for the prize money and P9, I have no earthly idea if SCG can legally demand the return of the prizes. My instinct is to say that they cannot demand the return of the money or the P9, but I am by not by any means an authority here. Perhaps someone with expertise on this subject can chime in, preferably an attorney. I would honestly like to know if Starcitygames can legally force the return of the prizes to the extent of wage garnishing.

Peace

[coraz86]

solid points

I think it comes back to people not looking for this kind of shit; it does seem prudent to have judges walking around trained to watch for deck manipulation, especially if a trained eye can catch it quickly.

I worked at Best Buy one Christmas season, and I once found an opened toaster oven on a shelf--still in the styrofoam and plastic wrap, just without the box. I showed it to my boss, and he immediately rushed back to his office to watch security footage. Turns out some asshole opened the toaster oven, put the unit itself on the shelf, then stuffed the box with whatever video games/DVDs/other shit they really wanted and re-sealed it. They paid for the toaster oven, so when the alarm went off at the door, Loss Prevention checked their receipt and sent them on their merry way.

I've never stolen anything in my life, so that idea hadn't occurred to me. Neither had it occurred to several friends I subsequently talked to about it, even though they're all smart people and some of them had gone through kleptomaniac periods themselves. My boss caught it rapidly because he'd been in retail for twenty years and seen it happen before.

I know that's kind of a long story, but I hope it underscores vilik's point decently.

[MirrorMask]

I have a crazy idea! SCG has messed up pretty bad and so has DCI so far. If people stop going to SCG because the promote cheaters then the Legacy part of the game will stop being so popular and card prices will go downwards in the end which is a good thing because I will finally be able to get those goyfs and Bobs without spending a fortune! yeah! Hail Alex B. !

[thickasabrick]

There's an interview up today with Alex on MTGCast if anyone is interested in listening:

FIXED LINK: http://www.mtgcast.com/?p=22067

[Lt. Quattro]

I'm listening to it and he explains that its a combination of haters gonna hate, sloppy play and honest mistakes.

[I am the brainwasher]

I am truly disgusted by that interview.
I'm outta here. Really need to puke right now.

[MirrorMask]

Oh come on! Others make mistakes too and took advantage of him! The poor kid...
You guys have nothing constructive to say so you should stop accusing him of false things. Pfff! freaking trolls...


~You've got explored!

P.s: He remembers his "mistakes" awesome memory... he even has "flashbacks".

[TheShaun]

Just saying, everybody thought Casey Anthony was guilty, despite overwhelming and completely obvious evidence against her. But then they "proved" via trial that she was innocent....