[DTB] Blade Control

[Setherial]

A couple of naive questions from someone who is new to the deck :

Has anyone tried 3 thopter foundry + 1 sword of the meek? We're a bit light on artifacts to support foundry but it's still a very powerfull engine, very synergetic with SFM and nice to have to stabilize in the late-game (including vs pesky burn / sligh / fast zoo decks).

It's not what you can put in it's what you would drop for these cards. Also non of our bad matchups benefit from Thopter foundry. We can already beat zoo and burn and sligh with batterskull and Snapcaster+removal.

[ivanpei]

Honestly I like path a lot. There's not very much downside to the card. Bolts are good too but I think having a stable manabase is pretty important. The red splash's biggest benefit is red elemental blast. That card beats the mirror straight up. Being able to hit Snapcaster, Jace etc is amazing. Also acts as pseudo removal against delvers. Card is amazing.

For those arguing that path is not md material, I beg to differ. Its not too great against random combo but right now the hottest combo decks are dredge and reanimator. Path is actually very good against Jins, Ichorids and Grave Trolls. Looking at the dtb section, path is pretty solid against everything there. Even against rug delver, they don't even play basics.

[biggerliz]

with maverick's rise, it is pretty tough to continue playing UW blade control. MOM is such a beating, especially game one. i am not sure if i've ever beat a turn 1 MOM that managed to resolve and wasn't subsequently killed. i think g2 playing first we have a great shot, especially packing wrath's in the board, but g3 is again tough.

might be time to play some combo until all this maverick non-sense dies down!

[Waikiki]

I run wrath of god and explosives in side and they work really great against maverick. Its a fun matchup to play

[Philipp2293]

A card that gives Maverick hard times is Shakles, I'm a long time Maverick player, and nothing makes me cry more in this MU than to face Shakles, I guess it must be even worse for Maverick players without grips in the board.

While Shakles doesn't mean immediately GG it often gives UW the time to use your own guys as blockers while ramping counters on Jace.

[klaus]

A card that gives Maverick hard times is Shakles, I'm a long time Maverick player, and nothing makes me cry more in this MU than to face Shakles, I guess it must be even worse for Maverick players without grips in the board.

While Shakles doesn't mean immediately GG it often gives UW the time to use your own guys as blockers while ramping counters on Jace.

Recently I re-added Shackles as a 2of and never looked back.
Those aren't merely removal means, but two additional wincons at 3CMC.
I always thought those slots would be better filled with Snappy material, which was plain short sighted.
I urge you to give Shackles another chance - even as a 1of it's never really random..

[Piceli89]

Shouldn't Shackles be bad because of Green Sun's Zenith giving virtually 6 outs maindeck? I know it's a useful tool to bypass color-protection given by Swords and Mother (as well as stealing Mother and use it to retaliate on them), but it sounds pretty temporary and easy to blow up. It's likely that you invest resources and tempo in containing their board position either, to see it blown up in a pinch. Things get even worse post-sideboard considering the Grip surprise buttsex issue.
Also, how much is it optimized if you're running Landstill-esque manabases (Factory and/or Wasteland, which is becoming the standard configuration)?

[Asking because I'm interested in the role of the card in that matchup- not strictly for what regards Shackles in Blade Control (currently playing Countertop and undecided between it and Firespout).]

[Waikiki]

Shackles won me tons of games so far. It also steals mother of runes pretty easily

[Philipp2293]

Shouldn't Shackles be bad because of Green Sun's Zenith giving virtually 6 outs maindeck?

From my experience, if I have to devote time (and my Zeniths) in order to blow up Shakles, while at the same time having the choice of attacking into my own guys or not attacking at all, the position quickly shifts from neutral to losing.

You'd better have the Zenith/Pridemage in your hand after they've tapped out for Shakles, if you have to wait for a 2nd try to blow up the Shakles, you'll have a hard time coming back.

[dan who?]

I also don't think the Maverick match-up is as bad as some make it out to seem. I also run a shackles maindeck and 3 wraths, 2 explosives, 2 paths in the sideboard. Stealing their creatures is such a beating and buys you a lot of time in my experience, I've also used this against zoo and caught a lot of players off guard game 1.

[Jim Higginbottom]

I'm not sure why but I'm 4-1 against maverick with this deck. I run 2 md bolts as well as a repeal and I sb 4 path to exile, a wrath of god, and a retribution of the meek.

[Artlee]

I also don't think the Maverick match-up is as bad as some make it out to seem. I also run a shackles maindeck and 3 wraths, 2 explosives, 2 paths in the sideboard. Stealing their creatures is such a beating and buys you a lot of time in my experience, I've also used this against zoo and caught a lot of players off guard game 1.

I'm not sure why but I'm 4-1 against maverick with this deck. I run 2 md bolts as well as a repeal and I sb 4 path to exile, a wrath of god, and a retribution of the meek.

To be quite frank, you are both doing well against them because you have built your deck to handle these kinds of decks. I guess this makes you weaker versus some other decks instead.

[dan who?]

To be quite frank, you are both doing well against them because you have built your deck to handle these kinds of decks. I guess this makes you weaker versus some other decks instead.

So what you're saying is we are doing well because our decks are geared towards beating certain match-ups that we would have problems with otherwise? Aren't you suppose to be changing decks around to pad match-ups? Isn't that what deck building and meta-gaming is about? I honestly can't foresee with the list I run that I'm a dog in any match-up.

[Artlee]

So what you're saying is we are doing well because our decks are geared towards beating certain match-ups that we would have problems with otherwise?

Yes. In my experience Maverick is supposed to beat UW Control if both pilots are equally skilled.

Aren't you suppose to be changing decks around to pad match-ups? Isn't that what deck building and meta-gaming is about? I honestly can't foresee with the list I run that I'm a dog in any match-up.

I was trying to say that most decks that I have seen do not have both EE and (3) Wrath of God in the SB. With the presence of Snapcaster Mage I would think that bringing in EE, WoG and Paths could be an overkill.
Do you mind sharing your full decklist?

[dan who?]

// Lands
6 Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
1 Karakas
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Mountain
3 Wasteland

// Creatures
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage

// Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Spell Snare
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
1 Vedalken Shackles


// Sideboard (15)
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Wrath of God
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives

It's Frid's exact list that he has been having success with for a while (in Europe where Maverick is played heavily I may add ), the only thing I changed was +2 Paths for 2 Firespouts as I'd rather have more spot removal to go with Snaps but I know he likes Firespouts better. I've been liking Explosives because it can act as a sudo-wrath, gets rid of problem artifacts/enchantments, and is more versatile so it can be brought in against many different decks unlike narrower cards like Disenchant. The 3/3 split of Spell Snare and Counterspell is out of respect for all the different kinds of combo out there as the sideboard is geared towards creatures.

Is the 3 Wraths, 2 Paths, 2 EEs out of the board overkill against Maverick or in general? Probably, but I haven't really wanted anything else out of the board for any other particular match-up. I bring the EEs in for choke (against Mav) so there is splash over that it also happens to hit creatures with converted mana cost of 3 . If the meta-game changes and I feel like I need to make a different match-up better the deck and sideboard will change.

I think this quote pretty much sums Stone-Blade up in a nutshell.

And Alex, the author of the article answered this (here is the translation of his explanation):

"Playing with CAW is cools because you have almost all even pairings. As I have mentioned earlier, with a little bit of skill and luck you can win tournaments easily. But why play a "balanced" and "fair" decklist when you can just go broken?
And you will tell me: "Well, you have just said it, because if you play it correcly while having even pairiings you can beat anyone" Well, yes, it´s true, but you will have even pairings. This means you can win versus anyone as much as you can lose to anyone.

With the different color options available this deck has all the tools it needs to beat pretty much anything but the pilot of the deck will need to know how to pilot it in general, how to play against different decks, how to sideboard, etc. I agree with you that in a vacuum if both pilots are of the same skill level, with stock lists, and the matches are pre-board only Maverick will win more often but luckily we do have the luxury of a sideboard and to adjust the main deck as we see fit . I feel that this deck has decent match-ups against the field and allows you to outplay your opponent better than any other deck which is why I play it. Otherwise like the quote says why play a fair deck like this when you can do something broken?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

If you want broken, try the Painter Stone combo, and an Elspeth or 2. Jace is good. Not perfect for every situation, and certainly not aggressive. Elspeth is. I win so fast a lot just because of painter combo it's crazy. Elspeth makes my Batterskulls so crazy. Sword of Body and Mind isn't worth wasting the slot for, and Jace shouldn't be considered a win-con as often as it is. Man, I'm crazy opinionated...

ABC

EDIT: Wasted again. It's in my nature.

[klaus]

// Lands
// Sideboard (15)
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Wrath of God
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives

Your SB looks legit.
But those Relics are quite terrible with Snappy.
I'd strongly suggest S.Extraction #3&4.
Also: EE should be Disenchant imo.

[BantFTW]

Your SB looks legit.
But those Relics are quite terrible with Snappy.
I'd strongly suggest S.Extraction #3&4.
Also: EE should be Disenchant imo.

Relics are indeed terrible with snappy, but mostly you want against the graveyard decks that you remove the whole graveyard and not just only one card, I think :)
Also EE is a really good card and doesn't kill your own creatures.
Disenchant doesn't kill everything but EE does, that's why he's better I would say.

[klaus]

Your SB looks legit.
But those Relics are quite terrible with Snappy.
I'd strongly suggest S.Extraction #3&4.
Also: EE should be Disenchant imo.

Relics are indeed terrible with snappy, but mostly you want against the graveyard decks that you remove the whole graveyard and not just only one card, I think :)
Also EE is a really good card and doesn't kill your own creatures.
Disenchant doesn't kill everything but EE does, that's why he's better I would say.

4 Stp, 2 PtE (+4 Snappy DoubleUps), and 3 Wrath kill every effing thing out there, basically nullifying EE's use as creature removal.

Disenchant clearly is the better EE here. Also EE being the sole out to a resolved Choke is sort of meh, since you'll need 5 mana (which can be tough if you can untap only 1-2 land) and possibly 2 turns to destroy it, giving them time to Pridemage it on top of that.
I've added 2 Disenchant to my SB a while ago and never looked back - being able to Snapcast it is noteworthy as well.

[preddi]

Hmm i think disenchant is not versatile enough. I'd rather play O-Ring instead, but EE looks superior to O-Ring in most cases.
I also think EE is a fine card to bring in against creature heavy decks. Sure, Path/Disenchant are superior to EE at their respective fields, but i always think flexible cards are better in the wild west of legacy.