[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Qweerios]

+1 for Richard Cheese on Living Wish vs. GSZ.

There is no point in playing Wish over GSZ when one puts creatures into play for cheaper while the other puts creatures into your hand for twice the cost. Also, when confronted with a blue deck, they tend to side out FoW in favor of Spell Snare once they see Hymns and realize we are a control deck hellbent on card advantage. Slowing down our GSZ and opening them to Spell Snare is definitely a bad idea.

As for Batterskull vs. Titans/Planeswalkers, I think that choosing something like Baneslayer Angel over a Bskull completely misses the point. Angel is vulnerable to creature removal, Bskull isn't. The size of Bskull and lifelink is not an issue when the purpose of the "bomb" is to reliably finish your opponent. In the same way that Hermit Druid is often better than Grave Titan, the harder it is for your opponent to stop your finisher, the better it is. Bskull is relentless and extremely hard to remove once you have lots of mana floating, its lifelink ability is the cherry on the sundae.

[Arianrhod]

I actually like BSkull. Qweerios has some good points. I don't think it's something that I'll do, but the concept seems solid theoretically.

Also, I also +1 Richard Cheese. Wish is stupid good when the meta is right for it, and that is definitely not now. Maybe in a non-Snare dominated meta, Wish would be worth running as a 2-of or so in addition to GSZ, but definitely -not- as a replacement to GSZ. Besides, there's something to be said for just drawing our bombs naturally in the course of a game without having to Zenith for them. Moving them to the sideboard for Wish means that we don't have that ability anymore.

[Theonlyone]

I've been wondering about the mirror. Wich version is the best against the mirror? I guess it's the bgw because of the recurring nightmare loop and academy rectors but I'm not sure.

[from Cairo]

I think the match would tend to favor the White splash list, but I think it probably comes down to what kind of action each player gets more-so than specific builds. IE Cabal Therapy/Hymns, Witnesses/GSZ, SDT, Planeswalkers and bombs (Rec Nightmare, Skeletal Scrying) seem like defining cards of the match up and are available to both GB and GBw.

There are a lot of deadish draws in the mirror - Deed, Explorer, one's Disenchant guy, for the GB version - GftT and Dismember are pretty lacking, etc. If one player lands an early Sensei's Divining Top I feel the game swings pretty heavily in their favor.

Postboard Extirpate/Surgical Extraction and Pithing Needle seem like good additions, again available to both variations. Perhaps one could out tech the mirror boarding Sylvan Library, giving that player the option to Needle Top and hope the opponent has skimped back on their Deed count.

[Qweerios]

In the mirror, a version with StP vs. a version without is heavily favoring the white splash. There is a lot of value out of being able to exile creatures continuously as opposed to destroying them. All of the mirror matches I've played so far revolve around early discard and who can find a Top first.

[Qweerios]

For those playing Rector, would Lethal Vapors be any good? It looks pretty good with Thrun.

[sdematt]

Lethal Vapours + Needle, obviously :P

-Matt

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I'd say at first blush that Lethal Vapors looks like the danger of cool things, but honestly I'm not gonna sit here and pretend to be any kind of expert on the Academy Rector version of this deck.

Actually, could someone who uses Rector extol its virtues to me? Like, what matchups does it help with, and what cards/strategies is it weak to (besides StP ) And what does your main deck Rector toolbox look like?

[sap]

first of all i want to thank Tao, TheArchitect, Qweerios and Arianrhod for their help on page 23, it helped me a lot and i've since had great success against burn, counter burn and jace.dec (pretty much the mtgo meta).

I'd say at first blush that Lethal Vapors looks like the danger of cool things, but honestly I'm not gonna sit here and pretend to be any kind of expert on the Academy Rector version of this deck.

Actually, could someone who uses Rector extol its virtues to me? Like, what matchups does it help with, and what cards/strategies is it weak to (besides StP ) And what does your main deck Rector toolbox look like?

im by no means an expert on this deck, not even close. i have tho played dozens of games with this deck against all the type of decks (MTGO), and im still learning (i think this deck has a pretty high skill cap) but ill share what i know:

i run the BWG version mainly because of swords to plowshares, and ive played both versions with and without birthing pod and i got to say, i dont know how people can play this deck without it, it just wins games by itself many times the turn it comes into play. also doesnt require to keep the toolbox heavy on the green creatures and MOST important it gets academy rector

before birthing pod, rector was just sub-par because i didnt have any way to get it, being a singleton it was really hard to get it when needed so it seemed really weak (i even tried removing it and adding a 4th pernicious deed).

i also ran 16 creatures, and in my opinion this is too low, i feel this deck is a zenith creature control as in the creatures are the spells that provide the control (besides being threats), i was on top deck mode mos of the games and most of the time i never drew the right creature.

i feel the minimum amount is 18 creatures, no matter what version you're running, i run 20 creatures on the birthing pod version and ive been having really great results, i feel that most of my losses are due to some kind of missplay by me and not by having a weak deck.

also academy rector + birthing pod made rector go from a sub-par card to one of the most importants in the deck, my rector toolbox is:
1 recurring nightmare
2 pernicious deed (yes 2, now that i can get the rector so easily i dont need more than2 , also with 20 creatures every slot is precious).
1 oblivion ring this guy usually gets out for Faith's Fetters, still cant decide which one to keep on MD

sd:
1 circle of protection: red
2 leyline of sanctity
1 Faith's Fetters

there are a lot of other cute enchantments (read broken) that can be abused with rector, but most of the time they're just win more cards so i feel like these are good for now.

birthing pod its really insane btw, gets titans (sun titan is so awsome, especially if you run liliana of the veil such sinergy) and its an easy card to sideout against burn or something.
living wish is bad imo, its slow doesnt do anything by itsel, just awful at least for this deck. birthing pod made me go from 2 to 1 phyrexian tower, before i was really sick of not getting a sac outlet and/or a creature "searcher", im just having way better results with it!

awsome deck!

EDIT: is sensei's divining top really necessary? i only run 2 but i find myself sideboarding it out so many times, also (once again) birthing pod seems to do a good job replacing it.
EDIT2: what about the new creature Strangleroot Geist for a 2cc spot? its fast, can be sacced all day to recurring nightmare and/or birthing pod.

[Arianrhod]

Rector's main strength is that it gives the deck an additional avenue of attack, while synerigizing with what the deck wants to be doing in the first place (Recurring Nightmare, especially). It also gives us more things to sacrifice to feed Therapies and Towers, as well as Garruk Relentless (which is much stronger in a Rector version, as it provides another solid way to flip him). My maindeck Rector targets are as follows (with 3 Rectors):

3 Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Phyrexian Arena
1 Moat
1 Faith's Fetters

This allows Rectors to turn into sweeper, OP engine, card draw, ****aggro, and spot removal. Fetters in particular is amazing, since it shuts down Jace in a way that few cards can. It also comes in attached to the permanent, which means that if they do not bounce batterskull in response to the trigger, they don't have another opportunity. Likewise, Rectoring in a Fetters stops Emrakul, which is another problem that the deck has. Having access to Moat is a wonderful thing, because although Delver exists now, and Maverick is a deck, Moat still kolds a lot of the format. Moat also stops Geist, which is proving increasingly relevant to the format. I don't think I need to say anything about the other enchantments, although I will say that I believe 3 Deeds is the correct number, even with the additional tutoring of Rector.

Rector also helps with sideboard hate. Blue decks really hate it when you Rector in a Choke, for example. In that light, it functions as an Enlightened Tutor, but one that isn't vulnerable to counterspells. At the point at which Rector resolves, it's going to do something that they don't like. And considering how much of the deck is must-counter, they're probably going to be out by that point.

The only real weakness of Rector is graveyard hate in response to its trigger, assuming that you're playing it carefully with regards to Swords (ie, having a Therapy at the ready, or a way to kill it that turn if they're tapped out//if the way is clear through discard). Most decks don't seem to have any way of really stopping it, and sometimes it performs as copies 2-4 of Moat, since many players simply will -not- attack into it, just in case.

Also: I think that Lethal Vapors is vastly too cute. Half the time, they'll accept the Time Walk because they don't have anything else going on anyway, or a blue deck will just laugh and sit on their counters and brainstorms.

[guelahpapyrus]

@ Sap: Would you mind posting or PMing a decklist? You've sold me pretty well on pod; I'm interested to see exactly what you're running.

[sap]

@ Sap: Would you mind posting or PMing a decklist? You've sold me pretty well on pod; I'm interested to see exactly what you're running.

sure thing:


Creatures (order by CMC):
1 dryad arbor

4 veteran explorer

1 qasali pridemage
1 scavenging ooze

2 eternal witness
1 bone shredder
1 kitchen finks

1 academy rector
1 thrun, the last troll

1 deranged hermit
1 reveillark (this guy.. maybe win more but when it works its GG)
1 shriekmaw

1 grave titan
1 sun titan

Other Spells:
2 sensei's divining top (under testing, seems to be sidedout every game..)
4 cabal therapy
3 swords to plowshares
2 pernicious deed
1 recurring nightmare
3 birthing pod
4 green sun's zenith
2 liliana of the veil

Lands:
1 savannah
2 windswept heath
2 marsh flats
1 scrubland
2 bayou
4 verdant catacombs
2 plains
2 swamp
4 forest
1 phyrexian tower

Sideboard (under constant tweaking):
1 swords to plowshares
1 duress
3 extirpate
1 ethersworn canonist
1 gaddock teeg
1 maelstrom pulse
1 phyrexian metamorph
2 damnation
1 faith's fetters
1 circle of protection: red
2 leyline of sanctity

keep in mind im no PRO, i just feel this build is the best so far against the MTGO meta (burn, jace.deck, counterburn).
also i try to keep a balanced CMC of creatures (because of birthing pod CMC + 1 thingy), even tho the 2cc slot is lacking.

[Qweerios]

Death and Taxe with Ghost Quarter, Leonin Arbiter, and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is a pretty rough matchup. Along with Wastelands, StP, Fiend Hunter, and Mangara, getting lands into play or an explorer to trigger is complicated stuff...

[Koby]

Good thing that Virtue's Ruin exists then. Why play fair, when you can just hose them? [also hits all the relevant Maverick creatures, for the same low cost as Deed]

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Spell Snare is the only practical reason to run GSZ over Living Wish I've heard.

OTOH ripping out the mediocre GSZ targets clears up more room for removal and discard so you should be crushing the decks running Spell Snare anyway.

The problem with GSZ in a deck like this is that all of your targets are basically mediocre Grizzly Bears and Trained Armadons with abilities, and you're not Maverick. You don't have the semi-aggressive game plan to pull off and you don't have equipment to make everyone relevant.

Wish also lets you play cards that exploit Explorer's mana accel, like Grave Titan, without raw-drawing them when they're dead cards in hand.

And as I said it lets you run 4x Top, 4x Hymn etc. which you really want to do.

Also either Grave-shell Scarab or Gigapede seem a lot better in this deck than Batterskull, since they don't eat it to counters, discard, removal, Krosan Grips, etc.. Batterskull is decent without SFM but suboptimal and worse than other options available.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Living Wish sounds honestly amazing. Never really considered it. GSZ is way stronger in a vacuum but in this Wish might just be better. The Wishboard would probably be like Genesis, Disenchant guy, Shriekmaw, 1-2 Yardhate guys (Ooze, Macabre, Bog), Lifegain guy (Tree of Redemption).

My last Configuration:

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
3 Bayou
4 Swamp
3 Forest
3 Treetop Village
3 Twilight Mire

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Innocent Blood
2 Darkblast
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Living Wish
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Eternal Witness
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter

SB:

2 Cabal Therapy
Wish Targets:
1 Grave-Shell Scarab
1 Grave Titan
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith

[Richard Cheese]

I think you're still underestimating the importance of 3-4 more copies of Explorer in the deck, and of having the option to draw into your threats, especially in a deck already running 2-3 Tops. The deck has slow starts as it is, and personally I think the difference between 0 and 1 extra mana and guaranteed 2 extra could be a big deal. Maybe a GSZ/Wish split, but then you're getting away from the whole purpose of freeing spots up.

That could just be me though, as I've said before I don't really want my whole plan to hinge on getting an Explorer in the yard, so I've tried to keep my list to creatures that I can cast somewhat reliably without them.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

If I could run any number of Explorers I might run an additional two. It can be really painful to accelerate your opponents' planeswalkers/equipment, so it is indeed a double edged tool, although its benefits outweigh it gains; and it is after all a mana slot.

Obviously GSZ offers a bit more flexibility, but at the cost of diluting your maindeck. I've yet to see a list of the deck that ran an acceptable number of good, solid staples to give it early game; things like 2 or 3 of Top or Hymn seem common, or under 4 early removal, or even less than a full set of Deeds.

Like Caleb's Invitaitonal list clogged up a full 8 slots with situationally weak or dead cards that might've been the other two tops, fourth Hymn, fourth Deed and and four more slots yet to play around with. 9 including Dryad Arbor which is fucking terrible for this deck's strategy.

I mean the greatest strengths over Wish are an extra shuffle effect for Top and dodging Spell Snare, but I don't think that's sufficient to run such an inconsistent list. I notice this in Maverick too. A lot of players that aren't running Brainstorm and Ponder and Jace are entirely too fond of running a lot of one ofs and random cards they can't control drawing or not, and then don't even run what non-blue draw manipulation is available to them as a full set.

Draw manipulation is really good, people! Run more of it! And make your deck more consistent while you're at it! I don't know if it's gambling addition or what but people are acting like they expect the Norns to be all about them drawing exactly the right cards at exactly the right moment.

[Greenpoe]

IBA, you've got no Thrun in the Wishboard. Thrun>Grave-shell scarab. Second, you only play 2 Therpay maindeck and zero Phyrexian Towers but just Innocent Blood, Dorkblast and Deed to kill your Explorers? Interesting.

[arcannys]

how can u witness for a resolved wish :O?