[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Tao]

@IBA: It seems like a very slow grinding list that emphasizes value and control elements but I wouldn't have expected anything else. It looks good.

- Kagemaro is better than Wumpus. Both are quite janky but the slot is needed and there is nothing else. But Kage is cheaper and if you need a sweeper chances are high that you don't want to Bolt yourself.
- Play at least one Phyrexian Tower. The upside outweighs the cons by a lot. I would recommend two but if you don't like it that much one will be ok, too.
- you might want two Thruns in the deck despite the Innocent Blods to speed things up, maybe force them to overcommit into Deed, to be good against Jace and to be good with Garruk

On a a side note my latest tries go into the Punishing Fire approach because it does a decent job against Delver as well as Jace and Living Wish also allows to play Bloodbraid Elf but I have no clue what is better anymore. So many possibilities. All lists are good in their way but I can't fucking tell if Pod, Rector, Punishing Fire, Straight GB, Gifts or whatever is better.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The best way to kill Explorer is generally to chump a dork, in my experience. I mean I don't think it's correct to build the deck entirely around killing your own Explorers and thus fucking up your mana curve; there's approximately a billion ways for that to go badly.

@Tao: Wumpus over Kagemaro is for two reasons: 1) Bitterblossom, 2) Planeswalkers. Recurring the ability matters for the first, second should be fairly self explanatory.

If I were to run a colorless utility land I'd think I'd want Stronghold with the Witnesses more. I was running 4 Blood, no Darkblast and the 23rd land as Stronghold originally in fact, the biggest reason for the change was to have more ways to refresh Top.

Thrun is a good card and I'm a big fan but I'm extremely leery of the non-synergy with half the deck. Also the reason why it's not currently a Wish target, although I'd tinkered with it there before.

[zulander]

I'm assuming people are testing out both strangleroot geist and geralf's messenger right???

Seems ridic!

[Qweerios]

I'm assuming people are testing out both strangleroot geist and geralf's messenger right???

Seems ridic!

Not really... I fail to see how they contribute to our gameplan.

[Arianrhod]

I'm going to assume that Zulander was trolling. Not many people in the thread even run Kokusho, and I can't imagine ever running Messenger over Kokusho in this deck.

@IBA -- I don't like that you only have two Therapies. I mean, I guess if you don't have any creatures other than Vets to really get full value out of them, then I can kind of sort of see it, but Therapy is an increasingly solid choice in Legacy in general even without shenanigans. SFM and Delver are both very happy to give you information on your opponent's hand for guaranteed hits, and there are other, more corner cases as well. I recognize and appreciate the direction that you're taking the deck -- I had a BUGw landstill deck two years ago that had its only wincons as Jace and Living Wish...a full board, as yours. I see no reason why it can't work, although I would certainly splash white for wish options. Kataki and Canonist are two of the absolute best hosers ever printed for specific decks. I'll grant that this deck tends to not have a problem with Affinity, so maybe you don't want Kataki, but the ability to drop Canonist g1 against any storm deck virtually guarantees a win. I think TES is the only variant that has an out to that at all. Magus of the Tabernacle is another wish target worthy of consideration. I won't say that I'd play your version any time soon, because it's not particularly what I want to be doing with the deck, but I grant you that it has potential. If it's where you want to be, then by all means, go for it!

Here's my latest list:

3 Academy Rector
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Scrubland
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Sun Titan
3 Garruk Relentless
1 Moat
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Faith's Fetters
2 Phyrexian Arena
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Vindicate
2 Swords to Plowshares

SB: 1 Kitchen Finks
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 2 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Memoricide
SB: 1 Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 2 Consuming Vapors
SB: 2 Leyline of the Void


I copied it off of Cockatrice, so it's a little disgusting to look at. My apologies.

The big change is that I went -1 Yosei -1 Empath +2 Swords main, then -2 Swords sb for +2 Leyline of the Void.

First, the Leylines: there have been several times in the past when I wished I had the ability to Rector for a Void. Now, with Grafdigger's Cage, I believe that land-graveyard based decks are preparing for a resurgence. As more decks switch to Grafdigger instead of other forms of hate, AggroLoam and 43Lands sit there cackling with joy. Lands can be a decent matchup, but AggroLoam scares me. It's like Deadguy: an attrition-based deck, just like us. The versions that run Burning Wish can even equal our otherwise unparalleled flexibility, and respond in kind. The extra graveyard hate should also help against the potential terror that is LED Dredge, as well as one of our problem matchups (Reanimator).

I've wanted the pair of Swords maindeck for a while now, to complement the rest of my removal suite. I also don't think that I want more than two, because they have a tendency of getting re-used over and over again with Witness, and I'd rather not clog my deck completely with removal. That said, I didn't know what to cut for them. I cut Yosei a few weeks ago, on the basis that he can pull you out of some batshit crazy situations, but that I would rather avoid getting into those situations in the first place, and that trimming one of my 6-drops would make my life easier in general. I tried a Sorin, but it didn't seem -that- great to me. I'll probably try it again before dismissing it completely, but I'm inclined to think that we are not, in fact, the correct deck for him.

The second Swords-slot came from Fierce Empath. I have grave misgivings about cutting this little guy, but I'm going to try it without him and see how I feel about it. Without Empath, I can't grab either of my 6's off of GSZ, which feels like a problem to me. It may prove that I don't need him and that it'll still work fine, but I dislike losing flexibility. That said, I am definitely pleased with having both copies of Swords maindeck again, as they just have so many targets, and they let me save my Pulses and Vindicate for scarier targets later on.

[from Cairo]

I think the land Tabernacle would be better than Magus, though neither have great synergy with Explorers.

Also Leyline of the Void's symmetry seems uncomfortable - Explorers, Rectors, Witnesses, Therapy :( - I realize it should hurt the opponent more, but still seems rough. Maybe Wheel of Sun and Moon?

[Arianrhod]

Leyline isn't symmetrical. It only affects opponents.

[from Cairo]

Leyline isn't symmetrical. It only affects opponents.

My bad was thinking it was Players, carry on.

[TraxDaMax]

To me, cabal therapy is what makes this deck work. I would always run 4 in it.

[Tao]

The best way to kill Explorer is generally to chump a dork, in my experience. I mean I don't think it's correct to build the deck entirely around killing your own Explorers and thus fucking up your mana curve; there's approximately a billion ways for that to go badly.

@Tao: Wumpus over Kagemaro is for two reasons: 1) Bitterblossom, 2) Planeswalkers. Recurring the ability matters for the first, second should be fairly self explanatory.

If I were to run a colorless utility land I'd think I'd want Stronghold with the Witnesses more. I was running 4 Blood, no Darkblast and the 23rd land as Stronghold originally in fact, the biggest reason for the change was to have more ways to refresh Top.

Wumpus seems too slow in every matchup I can think of. Unless you are already on 7 Mana it takes 3 turns until it Pyroclasms. Don't know though, didnt test it.

But I am pretty much 100% sue that it is wrong to play 0 Phyrexian Tower. There is not a billion ways for it to go wrong, there is exactly one and that is if it color screws you. That risk is outweighed by having another sacrifice option, having that option main phase so you are the first to get to use the mana, the one-shot mana boost and giving Sword protection.

[zulander]

I'm going to assume that Zulander was trolling. Not many people in the thread even run Kokusho, and I can't imagine ever running Messenger over Kokusho in this deck.

Actually I wasn't trolling. You realize that you made an argument for running undying creatures in that they can be great therapy targets and survive Deeds right???

[TheArchitect]

Yes but they don't survive StPs and they aren't that big and scary in the first place. Gerlf's Messanger also costs 3 black which can be tricky if we are playing around wasteland. Strangleroot geist might be have a place in the pod lists, though. This deck is usually pretty light on 2 drops and the pod list could better utilize undying.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Wumpus seems too slow in every matchup I can think of. Unless you are already on 7 Mana it takes 3 turns until it Pyroclasms. Don't know though, didnt test it.

But I am pretty much 100% sue that it is wrong to play 0 Phyrexian Tower. There is not a billion ways for it to go wrong, there is exactly one and that is if it color screws you. That risk is outweighed by having another sacrifice option, having that option main phase so you are the first to get to use the mana, the one-shot mana boost and giving Sword protection.

No, I said there are a billion ways for building the deck around Explorers to go wrong. An extension of that is running Tower over a more powerful utility land like Volrath's Stronghold.

[Tao]

Just based on experience Tower is by far better than Stronghold in this deck, it is not even remotely close.

[TheArchitect]

Just based on experience Tower is by far better than Stronghold in this deck, it is not even remotely close.

I second that. Phyrexian tower is amazing I want one almost every game. Stronghold on the other hand, I find myself rarely using and when I can use it, it isn't that helpful. I could even see cutting it for another tower possibly.

[hyperchord24]

No, I said there are a billion ways for building the deck around Explorers to go wrong. An extension of that is running Tower over a more powerful utility land like Volrath's Stronghold.

Would you say that twilight mire replaces phyrexian tower?

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Would you say that twilight mire replaces phyrexian tower?

No.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Just based on experience Tower is by far better than Stronghold in this deck, it is not even remotely close.

I haven't run the card myself, but I've played against people who have and can't remember a single time that it seemed relevant.

Not only Stronghold but Grim Backwoods seems like a more relevant card for the deck. The problem is that Nic Fit is a really shitty aggro deck; if it's good it's usually by taking the defensive route. The best form of tempo for such a strategy is slowing down the opponent; Explorer only makes the cut because it chumps and advances aggro decks to a point in the game where they tend to lose to superior cards, and because you have enough cards for other control/midrange decks to make up the difference there where its effect is pretty weak.

And Tower is a much worse form of accelerant than Explorer, granting that at least it occupies a land slot.

And may I suggest that only running one is terrible if it were so good and crucial to the deck's game plan early on. Stronghold is fine as a one of because it shines in the late game, and the same would presumably be true of Backwoods; by contrast Tower's mana bonus becomes increasingly irrelevant over time.

[Greenpoe]

Tower is fantastic because it's an easy way to sac explorer and capitalize on the mana at your discretion, and you get a bonus mana from saccing Explorer. In that sense, Tower is a huge tempo bonus for Nic Fit vs. any deck that doesn't use creatures (or doesn't mind not attacking) and vs. decks that attack with evasive creatures.

[Qweerios]

I think it is official, Death and Taxes is a bad matchup. I have been playtesting against it a lot in preperation for an upcoming weekly, and they have too many tools to cripple us. Every single turn they throw a curve ball at us and it eventually piles up. Taking advantage of a sweeper is near impossible without a perfect Explorer/Therapy start. Dealing with Karakas or Vial is a nightmare.