[Deck] Zoo

[Borealis]

Yea that's certainly not the worst thing ever. And if you want to pay 16 life you can draw 5 cards too, but obviously that's a very rare situation.

The problem is that when you draw the second library (or worse, see it on top with the first) you didn't draw a threat, you drew a 2 mana do-nothing enchantment. It's a subtle loss of a card, but in zoo that can make all the difference. There is a reason Dan Musser only runs one library in his main.

[Plague Sliver]

Because it's only running 20 lands, with no Knights, and my experiences with Lynx have been pretty mixed. People seem to usually up the land count and run Horizon Canopy to support him, but doing that just to run Lynx over Loam Lion seems pretty weak to me. It's also worth keeping in mind that the format is increasingly taking aim at small creatures; Loam Lion can't be Cursed Scrolled, or Punishing Fired, and they're sure not getting a two for one off it and Lavamancer with Fire/Ice or even God forbid Contagion.

2/3 really isn't that small in the early game, most decks have maybe 1, 2 creatures max out during that time that can do more than trade with it; and that's what your removal and wargears are for.

Fireblast is a thought and would give the deck an extra boost of speed. I've found the life swing from Helix to be relevant on occasion though, especially with Library. I dunno though, it's certainly worth testing out.

I like the fact that you're not running Goblin Guide in the deck. I was never comfortable running him before or during the Misstep era. 2/3 is the just the right power and toughness for 1 mana, I like it.

I would still be on the side of running a bit more land and trying the Steppe Lynx out. At GP Providence I got land-screwed on occasion even though I was playing 3 basic lands. Especially on the draw, if you lead with Taiga-Plateau and they wasteland you once it can be the difference between winning the game or not being able to cast your Library/Wargear and losing the game. I understand your reasoning and the synergies with Fireblast, but I'd drop a Library or Wargear and up land count by at least one.

[Borealis]

No love for Zoo this year yet, eh? Bump.

I honestly haven't played a tournament game in weeks, but hopefully on Thursday I'll jam a few games with MusserZoo. I got all these damn shiny cards for modern I ain't using so might as well blind some Legacy players.

[enemyofarsenic]

Dtb!

[Mr. Safety]

Also people, you really should be playing at least 3 Sylvan Libraries, that card is nuts. Like seriously.

Quoted for truth.

I'm curious how many Grim Lavamancers I should be playing. I'm attempting a Goyf-less zoo deck that focuses a lot more on dropping a lot of 1-mana dorks rather than trying to get a big beatstick. For referenced, my budget zoo build:

4x Wild Nacatl
4x Steppe Lynx
3x Goblin Guide
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Qasali Pridemage
2x Ranger of Eos

3x Rancor
3x Sylvan Library
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
2x Chain Lightning
4x Path to Exile
1x Fireblast

4x Arid Mesa
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Stomping Ground
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Temple Garden
1x Mountain
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Treetop Village


I like Ranger's ability to re-fill my hand with more 1-mana dorks, Rancor to push early damage, and 3 Libraries to keep the tank full of gas. Lightning Helix is a neccessity to me due to the shock-duals rather than true duals.

[trivial_matters]

Which version of Zoo is best against Maverick?

I'd like as many people as possible to weigh in with their opinion.

[jnosrati]

Which version of Zoo is best against Maverick?

I'd like as many people as possible to weigh in with their opinion.

Slow big zoo, but its still in their favor. My question is what are the best s slots specifically against maverick? Really not feelin like swordsing knights...
The deck basically kills zoo though. mana denial and bigger creatures is a bitch.

[iamfrightenedtoo]

@trivial-matters
the pretty standard zoo deck is about where it is. Musser's deck is solid. I have played against it a few times. I asked Musser the last time we played why it wins, because it doesnt make sense to me that the deck is good.
his response, Zoo capitalizes on player mistakes.
Maverick players make mistakes, there is a constant moving engine to the deck. the only real problem is you are not going to burn out a knight, they must be path'd.
everything else, is within reach of burn - of you nab the Ooze in its first stages.

I personally think Jitte should be MD'd most people side it in almost every single game after game one. the Legacy Meta is heavy creature based. I would rather be assured I was going to have a card I needed and then switch in the case I run into combo or control.

[Borealis]

Mr. Safety, 4 Goblin Guides is best I think. There are times I've thought about running 3, but those hands where you draw Taiga, Guide, Bolt, Guide are just too good to pass up. Add in Steppe Lynx and your really looking good. If you're all in on the fastest Zoo deck ever, I'd run 4.

Maverick is definitely not a sweet matchup, regardless of your Zoo build. My guess is that either Big Zoo (basically a Mirrorish match), or the super-fast Zoo decks a-la Musser and Cox will both have a tough fight, but be pretty close to 50/50 with some techy sideboarding. If Maverick and Blade decks dominate your format, I could see the maindeck Jitte, but otherwise it's not that necessary. I guess the bonus is you can still grow your dudes to get aggressive, or gain life against Storm, but that doesn't seem good enough. Then again, metagaming decisions are what get you ahead of the curve, so whatever works!

[Leto]

atm I am playing a rather fast list

4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Mountain

2 Sylvan Library

4 Chain Lightning

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Steppe Lynx
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Loam Lion
2 Grim Lavamancer

Board:
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tariff
2 Pyroclasm
4 Gravehate (atm 1 Crypt, 1 Relic, 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon, 1 Ravenous Trap)

Played 2 small Tournaments (24 Players) where the Deck performed decent (both 2-0 start, ended 2-2), I've lost primarily because of bad mulligan-decisions or bad plays/luck.

At the moment my Meta seems to be full of Canadian, Stoneblade, Maverick and some Junk/Rock-Decks, so I thougt about adding some Massremoval for all the small but important Critter these Decks play (Delver, SFM, Bob, Mother, Aven Mindcensor, Noble Hierarch, Dryad Arbor...) to my Maindeck.

Options would be: Pyroclasm, Firespout, Slagstorm, Volcanic Fallout

Pyroclasm:
+ cc2
+ 2 Damage (most of our creatures would survive this)
+ instant
- 2 Damage is sometimes not enough

Firespout:
+ 3 Damage
+ Option to do Damage only to flying creatures
- cc3 is a bit expensive
- kills almost all our own creatures
- Sorcery

Slagstorm
+ 3 Damage
+ Can be thrown at your opponent if you have board-advantage
- cc3 is a bit expensive
- kills almost all our own creatures
- Sorcery

Volcanic Fallout
+ 2 Damage (most of our creatures would survive this)
+ speeds up our clock
+ uncounterable (important in the Canadian MU)
+ Instant
- 2 Damage is sometimes not enough
- cc3

I would tend to say that Volcanic Fallout or Pyroclasm would be the best choices, but I am interested in your opinions too, on both, my list and the removal question

[jnosrati]

just play fire ice for the fire half. Ice isnt that great anyhow

[trivial_matters]

You could try Arc Trail.

I don't like Pyroclasm etc. in there because they hit Guide, Pridemage, Grim Lavamancer and perhaps Steppe Lynx, which seems too much.

[angel882]

Hi, I played in a local tournament 4 rounds swiss and top4. I ended up 3rd and lost to BW NO mystic in top4. Other opponents were
Round 1: The Gate (2-0)
Round 2: UW Mystic (1-1-1)
Round 3: UBgw Landstill (2-1)
Round 4: BW NO mystic ID, the same guy I played against in top4
Top4: BW NO mystic (1-2) Game1: I race the first game and my opp don't know what hit him :), Game2: I don't know what went wrong, but he draws Jitte (didn't side AG), Game3: Jitte again

The was the list

4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept heath
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Forest

3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 PtE
4 Lightning Helix
1 Sylvan Library

SB:
1 Sylvan Library
2 PoP
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Pyroblast
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Ancient Grudge

A few word about card choices:
- Jitte was the MVP all day when I drew it (I would have won the top4 match if I had drawn it) so maybe I add one in MD
- Volcanic Fallout has been great in my local meta, but in this tournament it wasn't needed
- Sylvan Library helps in control MU, I won The Gate with this
- Batterskull and Jitte are pain in Zoo's ass, so I'm considering adding 1 Ancient Grudge more (I didn't play three because I have 4 Qasali in MD)
- In my meta there are lot of mono colored decks (The Gate, Goblin, Burn..) and I think people know to play around PoP, But still I think 2 is the right number in SB
- I was waiting at least 1-2 Dredge and Reanimator, but there were none so that's why I didn't use Faerie Macabre (still have to be in SB and I like this card a lot)
- Qasali over Guide in MD: Batterskull and Jitte are pain in Zoo's ass, I have sided out Guide so often but in this tournament I wanted Qasali in every game

I have played now some tournaments with Zoo and tested everything. But I think The simple is the best. So that's why I think I'm playing this list (maybe add MD Jitte) in the future and make few changes in SB.
Any comments??

P.S. I like Volcanic Fallout is the best sweep in zoo, the only con is double red in manacost.

[trivial_matters]

I like your list.

It's hard to tell what to cut for Jitte main though. Maybe Chain Lightning or Helix? Another option would to cut an Ape or Loam Lion but I'm not sure that's such a good idea.

EDIT: As for what is best against Maverick, I'm leaning toward midrange Zoo. Here is an analysis I find quite insightful. (I believe the it's the same lordofthepit who has contributed to this thread.)

[angel882]

I like your list.

It's hard to tell what to cut for Jitte main though. Maybe Chain Lightning or Helix? Another option would to cut an Ape or Loam Lion but I'm not sure that's such a good idea.

EDIT: As for what is best against Maverick, I'm leaning toward midrange Zoo. Here is an analysis I find quite insightful. (I believe the it's the same lordofthepit who has contributed to this thread.)

I usually like Volcanic Fallout against Maverick. In one tournament (I went 4-0) I did nice combat tricks against Maverick with Fallout. Here's how it went:

I attack with Nacatl, opp blocks Nacatl with Mom, response to prot green I play Fallout and sweep Mom + Noble + Aven. Nice three for one :)

[zulander]

What are some board strategies for local tournament this week? I'd expect some dredge/RUGtempo/BUcontrol/maverick/ShowandTell

How would you board against them?

[angel882]

What are some board strategies for local tournament this week? I'd expect some dredge/RUGtempo/BUcontrol/maverick/ShowandTell

How would you board against them?

I think I will try out Grafdigger's Cage when manage to get those. It will kill dredge! It shuts GSZ and SCM. It also slows reanimator down. Of course animator can but creatures in graveyard and bounce Cage to your hand, but you slow them down so that you can burn them before they draw bounce spell. Of course there're so many other things Cage do but here are only few :)

I think you should let Dredge start. Especially if it's LEDless and they go draw, discard Troll, go. Then Faerie Macabre is good to slow them down. It's like free timewalk :)

I think PoP is great against RUGtempo/BUcontrol/maverick and maybe even ShowandTell.

Pyroblast is also great against RUGtempo/BUcontrol/ShowandTell.

Volcanic Fallout, Umezawa's Jitte and Ancient Grudge helps in Maverick MU. Jitte is also good against RUG Tempo and Fallout against Dredge.

Library is there for against some controls and decks that want to disrupt your hand (Landstill, The Gate, Pox, Team America, Eva Green..)

[TheMinel]

Hi guys

done a few games testing on Cockatrice with this build.... some cards are there in those numbers because that's what I physically have available....played vs Maverick and it's a tough matchup pre side, played Goblins but won quite easily, played URb and also won, and WW is a close matchup really.

First impressions: Thalia is nice, the 10/10 Wurm I haven't had the chance to play but may just swap it for another Elspeth which when I played it, was really good.
Huntmaster also nice but probably no more than 1x due to the high casting cost.

3 Kird Ape
3 Wild Nacatl
3 Loam Lion
2 Tarmogoyf
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
3 Plateau
2 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Sylvan Library
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Lightning Helix
4 Chain Lightning
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Fireblast
3 Goblin Guide
2 Price of Progress
2 Figure of Destiny
4 Qasali Pridemage
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Ghoultree
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Shattering Spree


Your thoughts?

[useL]

Hi!

So I played a zoo-deck to a 4-0 in a local tourney last night. It was my first ever zoo deck attempt and I'm pretty happy with some plays I did. One thing I'm not happy with is the sideboarding. I was ALL over the place, removing Goblin Guides and Tarmogoyfs and all that. What do you sideboard out when you want to take in say 3 Pyroblasts, 2 Krosan Grip and 2 Ancient Grudge? Thats 7 cards. Do you take out bolts against a WRUG-CBtop list? What do you take out against Dredge to get your hate on?

I'm totally lost and I'll continue to board out my Goblin Guides and Tarmogoyfs against Dredge unless someone just slaps me and tells me what to do.

List is:

Creatures [23]
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

Instants [12]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile

Sorceries [4]
4 Chain Lightning


Enchantments [1]
2 Sylvan Library

Lands [20]
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

[zulander]

Never take Goyf out against Dredge, paying 1G for a 6/7 is good (enchantments/artifacts in the yard). Also, you need a fourth Goyf in the list (if you don't own a 4th I understand tho).

Against CB I wouldn't board in Grudge, why are you boarding it in? Otherwise I'd suggest taking out Chain Lightning and then Helix. Reason being if you resolve a 1cc card I'd rather it be a creature instead of sorcery especially since you still have 11 removal spells after -4 chain, -1 L. Helix.