I don't think a 2nd Batterskull is bad per se, but as others have pointed out, having a sword or jitte available gives you outs for when your SFM is removed and you can't (safely) hardcast the skull. SoFF lets you play through Choke and can be very useful with manlands (activate, equip, attack, untap, equip on a blocker). It's also something different, when you're facing a Runed Halo or Pithing Needle, for instance.
Combo tends to not have much removal, so I wouldn't necessarily use that as a general guide.
Personally, I'm not too keen on SoLS in Stoneblade. We don't run enough creatures to make its special ability of much use to us. Pro: White for what? StP? Run Geist and problem solved. Pro: Green is more relevant, IMO. I'm sure there are specific situations in which it's exceptional; but as much as the other non-standard sword, SoBM?
If you're worried about artifact hate on your Batterskull, there are other options, like Academy Ruins (also excellent with EE, if you're going that route); or not to play it out until you can also bounce it.
Hi there, I just built this deck a month ago and haven't had much experience with SB strategy. I usually go to a small local tourneys. My meta is mostly aggro (Goblins, Nic fit, white weenie, merfolk, NO bant) with an emergence of some RUG tempo, UW stoneblade and BUG control.
Based on this, I tuned my build to have answer for aggro environment.
Here is my list (UWR Version)
Creature (11)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster mage
3 Vendilion Clique
Spells (18)
2 Counterspell
4 Force Of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 STP
4 Brainstorm
1 Wrath Of God
Artifact (4)
1 Batterskull
1 SOBAM
2 Vedalken Shackles
Planeswalker (3)
3 JTMS
Lands (24)
Standard lists, just like anybody else, so I wont post it.
SB
3 Surgical extraction
3 REB
1 WOG
3 PTE
2 Disenchant
3 Spell Pierce
Here is my usual SB strategy:
VS Nic Fit
-4 Stoneforge
-1 BatterSkull
-1 JTMS
+1 WOG
+3 PTE
+2 Surgical
VS Gobbos
-3 Spell Snare
-1 FOW
+3 PTE
+1 WOG
VS NO Bant (Still Not Sure about this, please comment)
-3 Spell Snare
-4 SFM
-1 Batterskull
+3 REB
+3 Spell Pierce
+1 WOG
+1 PTE
VS Mirror (please comment on this)
-4 FOW
-1 WOG
+3 REB
+2 spell pierce
VS RUG tempo (Please comment on this)
-4 FOW
-1 WOG
+2 PTE
+3 REB
VS BUG control (Please comment on this)
+3 spell Pierce
-1 WOG
-1 SOBAM
-1 FOW
Thanks for reading and sharing comments.
Hello everyone!
I have been having alot of success on cockratrice with no planeswalkers in a standstill shell. I have been running 1x academy ruins 1x dust bowl 1x kjeldorian outpost 1x tolaria west 4x factories to give me huge game under a standstill. The outpost is quite amazing at helping kill planeswalkers in that a 1/1 token ever turn fills the board quickly.
Even against elspeth a 1/1 token a turn and one other creature can take her out. Against jace... He either has to use the -1 every turn or just brainstorm and the tokens.... Not typically a good idea. I have been finding the planeswalkers very win more in many matchups and sided out frequently.
The format is speeding up again and I feel that u/w blade has the tools to stay a dtb for quite some time. The snapcaster/mystic combo is just too strong.
My list btw:
4 snapcaster Mage
4 stoneforge mystic
1 batterskull
1 jitte
1 crucible of worlds
4 standstill
4 brainstorm
4 swords to plowshares
3 disenchants
4 force of will
3 spell snare
3 spell pierce
4 mishra's factory
1 kjeldorian outpost
1 academy ruins
1 tolaria west
1 dust bowl
4 flooded strand
3 tundra
3 islands
1 plains
3 polluted delta
1 riptide laboratory
Artifacts and enchantments are at an all time high right now and not having to waste countermagic on them game one is a huge boon. Between equipment, affinity, moxes, vials, orings and god knows what other schenanigans are played in legacy disenchants should be mainboardable. Against super fast aggro/burn they are the first cards to come out... Making side boarding easier;)
Btw.... Wraths main/sideboard seem like a crutch. 12+sword effects seem like enough against most aggro decks. If you are having trouble against non targetable creatures, try EE or wing shards as you can leave your small creature base intact.
Last edited by lavafrogg; 02-15-2012 at 01:17 AM. Reason: Added decklist
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Kjeldoran Outpost used to be the bomb back in the day. Today, I can't think of any reason I wouldn't rather have Elspeth. You only have 4 plains in your whole deck, and 3 of them are duals. How is Wasteland not eating you for breakfast?
Speaking of which, Dust Bowl instead of Wasteland? That sounds highly suspect. I don't want to have to tap out to kill a Grove or Maze.
I'd love Tolaria West if its transmute cost were 1mc instead of 3, or if Transmute at least had the speed of an instant. 3mc is just too high, IMO. If you want to tutor for lands, I suggest considering Bant and playing KotR.
As I am finding out, planeswalkers are very expensive and slow against many decks. The best uses for planeswalkers seems to be as late game bombs against other slower decks/decks that have ran out of steam.
The version I am working on can squeeze in extra relavent cards for the matchups that matter and operates the best under a standstill for card advantage when it matters.
The late game plan has been built into the mana base with only the crucible of worlds as a cast able card. The outpost will build an army to down planeswalkers(along with factories/weenies) and the dust bowl ensures you build an advantage the later the game goes on. I am not trying to out tempo anyone with wasteland, but I want to cripple an opponent when I need to.
With the 3 disenchants mainboard, I do not have to worry about other equipment decks, aka the mirror, and can use my land/standstill advantage to ride to victory. When you have the board stabilized it shouldn't matter what you win with, as long as you win.
On the mana costs, I only need white mana in single doses and only for a few cards. Many decks only run 2-3 basics and this one could easily fit in another plains. With most decks packing 2-3 wastelands I have been fine landing my outpost when I need to. Let alone when the time comes to drop the crucible and win the game.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
On what matchup we want to side in Surgical Extraction? (I know that dredge and other GY decks are one of them).
The primer needs updating. All the talk about the strengths of Misstep versus various decks kind of dates it.
-Jacob Faturechi
Level 2 Certified DCI Judge
My email is my last name on gmail.
Punishing Fire is another.Originally Posted by sadakiyo
My current list :
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Tropical Island (for EE)
3 Tundra
2 Wasteland
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Brainstorm
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
1 Batterskull
Sideboard:
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Cursed Totem
2 Disenchant
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Back to Basics
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Nevermore
The enlightened tutor approach is somewhat of an experiment, but I like it so far. The MD tutor targets are all cards I'm happy to see anyways, and it's nice to have such flexibility pre-board. Post-board it's meant to help in the most difficult MU : cage vs dredge, nevermore / bridge / canonist vs show&tell decks, and especially cursed totem against maverick. That last one has been incredible, it single-handedly dominates them unless they play grip / grudge (few do). I might cut a path or a disenchant for a 2nd tutor in the board. I'm also considering replacing B2B with blood moon. Opinions?
I side them in against RUG Tempo, being able to surgical away their Volcanic Islands early in the game is back breaking. So as being able to surgical away FOW or their lightning bolts or fire/ices.
Why so serious?
I've tested a second Batterskull, and I prefer a SoFaF over it. Against an opposing skull mirrors against Maverick and Stoneblade, SoFaF saved me the game by disabling the opponent's Batterskull cold. Against Maverick, my SFM with SoFaF kept me in the game by holding off his token until I could remove it, he didn't have the mana to re-cast it if he ever put it back in his hand. Later, the same SFM was holding off his Gaddock Teeg with SoBaM, Jitte and BS equipped till I was able to top deck my way into removal. I got my removal for the Teeg and won the game from there.
Against stoneblade, a SoFaF on a Spellstuter Sprite killed-off an opposing Jace and held-off an opposing germ token. I eventually got Elspeth online and rode her to an eventual victory.
In both cases, a batterskull wouldn't have kept me in the game for long especially against the Maverick opponent who eventually got multiple swords online to easily outclass my batterskull. Not to mention it kept him from geting his Jitte online as well. Against the stoneblade mirror, he eventually got his germ on a SoFaF and a bs instead of SoFaF would've lost me the game because of the protection given by his SoFaF.
A key advantage of SoFaF against an opposing bs is that they don't get to gain life from you blocking which is a key in keeping them from taking advantage in the game slowly by just gaining life.
Against combo, I haven't tested against it much I wouldn't think a second batterskull would make a difference if you can't tutor for it. If you can though, it would much rather get a SoFaF for the discard ability and for it being able at least a turn faster in being able to have an impact in the game.
Why so serious?
@maelig:
with elspeth being the only spell with WW I see know need for basic plains #2 at all.
Even with 2 Wrath in the board I haven't had issues with a single basic plains.
I'd definitely replace it with a Windeswept Heath that way you're still able to fetch basic plains, as well as Tropical Island.
Give it a shot.
Good point, I'll try that.
You can side out spell snare, they're utterly useless in this MU. On the other hand, I would never cut a jace which are so good against them, explorer allows you to play them early in the game and they have no good way to deal with it appart from pulse (or attacking if they get an aggressive enough board). I would also consider boarding in 1-2 disenchants, as they often play choke in the SB.
I think I would side out shackles and StP before FoW in the mirror. Thing is, there are some key spells that are worth fighting over (i.e. planeswalkers), and the CD isn't so bad since games often last long and you get the opportunity to hardcast FoW. Besides, with every creature having cip effects, StP is CD too.
While we're on SB strategies, has anyone tried Linvala as a 1 or 2 of against maverick (most likely replacing WoG)? It's unexpected and if they boarded out their StP (as they should in this MU) and you keep PF under control (OK, that's a big if) it basically gives you the game. Even if they can double PF, you can take the opportunity to kill the moms with the swords/path you've kept in hand before Linvala dies. It also gets you out of that horrible situation when there's both a mom and a teeg in play.
Last edited by Maëlig; 02-20-2012 at 01:31 PM.
The selectiveness of Linvala's ability is nice, but the 4cc is a bit steep, IMO. I think I'd be more inclined to run Cursed Totem instead. While it effects us too, I think The impact is balanced against the Maverick player, cause we only have 4 creatures with an activated ability, and we can just hardcast our equipment when we need to. Meanwhile, it nullifies Qasali Pridemage's ability. While the totem is subject to artifact hate itself, it forces your opponent to (a) have an artifact hate spell, and (b) use it on the totem instead of our equipment. A deck relying on Pridemage is less likely to be bringing in much additional artifact hate (aside from more Pridemages), IMO.
I still can't decide in between soff, sobm and jitte as my 2nd equipment. Soff is best in the sfm batterskull mirrors and against goyfs and Co.
Sobm is really strong for building board position later in the game and also has very nice protection colours. I find that sobm really frustrates jace TMS and also destroys rug tempo. Fetching batterskull with sfm against rug tempo isn't great because sfm will get fried and hardcase batterskull is almost impossible against them. If you fetch sobm, it's easier to. Hardcast and is a bomb against rug. Pro all their creatures and having a token every turn really swings the game around.
Jitte on the other hand is better against tribal and burn decks. I guess it really boils down to the meta.
The thing that keeps me from considering SoBM is that there's just too many decks that interact with their graveyards (Dredge, Reanimator, various Snapcaster decks, even Enchantress) for me to want to help them. Having the wolf tokens would be nice, though. I don't find Pro:Blue that compelling... it protects your guy from Jace (and helps you kill him), more or less. It's not that that's bad, but overall, I think SoFF shares the more useful protection (Pro:Green) and the free land untap is fantastic, especially when you throw the sword on a Mishra's for attack.
I've had mixed success with the Jitte, because it's so vulnerable, and I've had difficulty getting it charged that initial time. That may have more to do with my own substandard playing than its place in the deck, and its potential keeps me holding onto it. Right now, I'm playing both SoFF and Jitte main, although thinking of moving the Jitte to SB as I'm testing benching my Clique there as well.
I play Geist main, and I find him much more powerful with a SoFF than an uncharged Jitte (although with one charged, he is a beast).
I have been using SoF&I as my alternate gear to get aside from Batterskull and it is solid vs Izzet Delver, RUG, and many suit-o mirror matches that rely on Blue dudes. The card draw is solid to gain you serious card advantage, and the added damage fling is very versatile.
Anyway, I run SoF&F with Batterskull maindeck, and keep the SoF&I ready in the SB and it has helped in my meta.
Just saying.
I had SoFI in my SB since starting Stoneblade, but I just don't find myself bringing it in that often. The benefit of Geist is that he's immune to bolts, so almost any sword on him will be good just for the +2/+2. Against RU Delver, of course, but not much else. Do you side it in vs RUG Delver? Or Zoo? I don't think my current 75 has room for both Jitte and SoFI, so I'm eager to hear a compelling case for one over the other.
My meta has some Zoo, the mirror, Stone Bant, Enchantress, Dredge, Delver, Merfolk.
In this meta I'd DEFINITELY play SoFI over Jitte in the MD.
So is the consensus to play three equipment main deck with no Jitte?
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