[Deck] Belcher

[Final Fortune]

Seriously, Desperate and/or Pyretic Ritual > Manamorphose, if you aren't playing every Red Cabal Ritual then you are misplaying Belcher. The only question is whether or not Chancellor of the Tangle or Grim Monolith are worth the inclusion or not (hint: Chancellor of the Tangle is)

[Satanarchrist]

Seriously, Desperate and/or Pyretic Ritual > Manamorphose, if you aren't playing every Red Cabal Ritual then you are misplaying Belcher. The only question is whether or not Chancellor of the Tangle or Grim Monolith are worth the inclusion or not (hint: Chancellor of the Tangle is)

ok, I pulled out Manamorphose and put in Desperate Rituals. What should I take out for Chancellor of the Tangles then?

[Final Fortune]

Gitaxian Probe pretty much

[Satanarchrist]

Do you run Serum Powder?

And any suggestions for my sideboard?

[thefringthing]

It surprises me there's so little consensus on a list. Just write some shitty Python code to test a billion hands each of a couple different lists and see which one goes off the most.

[kwelts]

It surprises me there's so little consensus on a list. Just write some shitty Python code to test a billion hands each of a couple different lists and see which one goes off the most.

can you do it? i dont know python.

[GoldenCid]

Gitaxian Probe pretty much

I don't know....sometimes i really feel that i need cantrips in the deck...it's an extrange thing...cantrips helps us to reccorver after counter and discar spells. I feel a bit unconfortable with all all all in list. I think that 8 cantrips and 16 rituals are ok but it can be a matter of playstyle.

[OurSerratedDust]

It surprises me there's so little consensus on a list. Just write some shitty Python code to test a billion hands each of a couple different lists and see which one goes off the most.

I made a belcher simulator in Java a few months ago and managed to max out the turn one win-percentage. Unfortunately, I got busy with school and never released anything about it. I just started working on it again, and will write a little article on it in the next week or so.

[2sided3angle]

Has there been a post on how to sideboard with Belcher?

I understand you mostly bring in Swarms and REB effects and the rest are ran as Wish targets but what do you usually take out.

[Satanarchrist]

Has there been a post on how to sideboard with Belcher?

I understand you mostly bring in Swarms and REB effects and the rest are ran as Wish targets but what do you usually take out.

Since almost everything is needed, I usually take out the Pyretic Rituals because they're inferior duplicates of Desperate Rituals, and sub in Swarms for Blue decks. I've never had much luck with REB working. Maybe I'm not good at mtg, or maybe where I play it isn't worthwhile to side in. Right now I took those out for Serum Powder. That way game two I've got an aggressive mulligan tactic that they didn't know about game 1

[GoldenCid]

I understand you mostly bring in Swarms and REB effects and the rest are ran as Wish targets but what do you usually take out.

Concerning my side...this is true except im running a couple of ingot chewer.

Seething song is a common side out target for me...

[Vacrix]

Xantid Swarm isn't a good choice post-board right now. There's too many Lightning Bolts and Chain Lightnings in the maindeck. Your opponent can just wait for a turn and draw 1 of 8 cards to kill it and hold on to their Force. I'd play Autumn's Veil in its place.

[Darklingske]

Xantid Swarm isn't a good choice post-board right now. There's too many Lightning Bolts and Chain Lightnings in the maindeck. Your opponent can just wait for a turn and draw 1 of 8 cards to kill it and hold on to their Force. I'd play Autumn's Veil in its place.

I agree with that. Last week during testing, my Swarms never lived longer then 1 turn. I havn't tested the veils yet, but am doing that tomorrow!

[Vacrix]

They work well and let you know if you are going to nuke your entire hand or not.

[2sided3angle]

Hey. Played Belcher at the SCG Invitational to a 34th finish.

Went 3-1 Day 1 and 2-2 Day 2

[Vacrix]

Nice. Report?

[Infinitium]

Reforge the Soul 3RR
Sorcery
Each player discards his or her hand and draws seven cards.
Miracle 1{R}

This.. is good. Not only does it act as a win condition by it's lonesome even hardcasted, but it also has the potential to refill Belchers hand should the first combo attempt fail. Granted it does have the danger of drawing the opponent into disruption but still.

EDIT: Case in point list

Wheel Belcher

Mana
1 Taiga
4 Land Grant
4 Rite of Flame
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Tinder Wall
4 Chancellor of the Tangle <- Also a ghetto win condition once in a blue moon

Win Conditions
4 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Reforge the Soul
3 Burning Wish

Sideboard
1 Empty the Warrens <- Obligatory
1 Recross the Paths <- Sets up Reforge the Soul for a next turn win!
0-1 Tendrils of Agony <- Not even sure this is needed since Recross -> Reforge should add enough juice to deal with any permanent hate on Belcher already
0-1 Reforge the Soul <- depending on if 4x BW is better MD
0-1 Past in Flames <- Just in case
9-12 Largely irrelevant cards <- some mix of Xantid Swarm, Ingot Chewer and additional BW targets (Chain Lightning, Reverent Silence, Shattering Spree etc)

[mistercakes]

i think reforge the soul could be a 1 or 2 of in the maindeck, and it probably replaces the diminishing returns in the sb.

post above: you should always be running 4 burning wish.

been playing belcher a lot. njmagic on magic online.
i've gone 3-1 in two dailies with it over the last few weeks. (they don't launch too frequently)

[Infinitium]

you should always be running 4 burning wish.

You really have to provide any sort of reasoning behind that statement, especially as BW in most lists only amounts to EtW#5 through 7. It -could- be better in the above list as it also sets up Recross the Paths, but I somehow doubt it's better than Reforge the Soul (or Belcher)#4 MD. 12 MD win conditions may be the right call with most of them costing 5 effective mana and counterspells in the format, but that is pretty hard (maybe impossible) to prove objectively.

Speaking of the above list, turns out playing Chancellor is very disappointing with draw 7's. I'm going to try Noxious Revival in the spot for the time being to see whether it can play nice with Reforge.

[feline]

I've got a playset of xantid swarm and autumn's veil, I usually run 4 of one and 2/3 of the other in the sideboard, while the rest is wish targets, but it all depends on which of the 2 places I'm going to play at and their metagames, but at a SCG open I'd probably not lean towards the Xantid swarm right now either with all the answers out there, depending on how i felt at the time of looking at it though if it comes down to me going to one, i could see still leaving some in and doing like 2 of one, 4 of another or 3 / 3, or even 4 / 4 if i felt that was the right move, giving me 2 angles to come from for "don't counter my stuff!" lol >^,^< bringing in all 8 at once though could be risky.