Kiki's being played because Winstigator is being played, and Winstigator>Matron>kiki>Matron>GoblinX is pretty fucking good. As good as Winstigator>Matron>SGC? It's certainly more flexible.Originally Posted by Humphrey
Eagerly awaiting this
The recent printed cards (Scavenging Ooze, Sigarda-Angel of Hope) make Maverick even more scary. So I think in times of big creatures it's worth to splash black again-warren weirding is a tutorable one-off that can replace a stingscourger and Perish is a post-board winner lategame vs. Savannah based decks.
I also believe cheating creatures into play is essential in this deck. And when lackey and WInstigator don't connect, descendant's path is a way to get them to participate.
I will at least try a double splash like in misstep times and see what we can do.
Maybe I post a decklist later, but I wouldn't drop WInstigator-just reduce them to two...
Gobbos: Kings of flavortext!
I just remembered that Descendant's Path costs only G2, not GG1. That's pretty good. Maybe even good enough to make Squee, Goblin Nabob playable again.
My only real worry about the playability of Descendant's Path is that it has a 1 turn lag. This lag also makes Wort pretty unplayable, but that's because Wort is a removal-eating creature. Path is much more difficult to answer, so it might actually stick around to be relevant. I'm gonna brew a list I think.
Here is my list
18 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Warren Instigator
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
4 Chieftain
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
3 Siege Gang Commander
Sideboard:
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Gempalm Incinerator
I played in a team tournament today, we had teams of 3 and each of the members had to play a random opponent of the other team. I went 4-0-1, but unfortunately my teammates went 1-3-1 and 3-2 so we got 8 points with 2-1-2 in the end. Fairly disappointing, but at least my results were good.
I forgot a couple of details and my memory might be incorrect at some places but I;ll give a shot at a tournament report anyway.
Match 1 against Canadian Threshold
Game 1: he played a Ponder, I played a Vial. He followed that up with Delver and I killed it with Fanatic. After that he didn't find any other threats and burned some of my guys and Stifled some of my Vial activations, but eventually I got a Matron into Ringleader and that pretty much sealed the deal.
Game 2: He FoWed my Vial and then played a Goyf. I was stuck on two land and decided to double Bolt it during his upkeep on turn 3 or 4 I believe as the Goyf was 3/4 already. This was a pretty big gamble but I assumed he did not have Daze as he would otherwise just Daze my Vial and he already played a FoW. Fortunately my second Bolt resolved. I was stuck on 2 lands for quite some time and was unable to do anything as I had all 3 or more cmc goblins, however he could not find threats. Luckily, the cycling of Gempalm helped me out and I got managed to play Matron and then some Ringleaders and won fairly easily.
Match 2 against BG Pox with Tombstalker, Smallpox, Confidant and Death's Shadow (weird brew).
Game 1: I saw his teammate played Affinity and they were still fairly young kids. I therefore assumed he was most likely on some sort of budget aggro deck. That made me keep a hand of 3 Mountain, Lightning Bolt, Matron and 2 higher cmc goblins. This proved to be a mistake and I fell down to 2 Smallpox where he took out my topdecked Lackey. He followed that up with Bitterblossom and then Liliana. Meanwhile, the 2 Smallpox screwed me out of the game.
Game 2: I'm not really sure what happened here, but I had a Vial and rode the mana advantage to the win.
Game 3: he has to mulligan and gets a turn 1 Confidant with Chrome Mox. Meanwhile I have Vial again, but I can't touch the Confidant for a while. He flips a Tombstalker, which obviously helps me out a lot. He gets rid of the Confidant with either chumping or a Smallpox. Eventually I get a Siege Gang into play and burn him out with Siege Gang and Bolt while facing a board containing Tombstalker and a 4/4 Death's Shadow.
Match 3 against UB Zombies. An awesome brew with Carrion Feeder, Geralf's Messenger, the new zombie lord, Dark Confidant, Brainstorm and Hymn to Tourach.
Game 1: He starts off fairly aggressively with a Carrion Feeder which he sacs the guys I try to remove to. He gets me down to 7 before I manage to stabilize. I get a Matron, a Fanatic and a Warren Instigator into play and can cycle a Gempalm to kill his Geralf and then his Zombie lord. I keep chumping the Carrion Feeder and get a Ringleader and Siege Gang down, eventually he crumbles to my card advantage.
Game 2: I have to mulligan. He manages to remove my Lackey with Smother and gets down a turn 3 Confidant. I get stuck on mana and he gets down a second Confidant. I can't kill either and he overwhelms me with card advantage and Hymn to Tourach. My only hope was to burn him out of the game but he kills me when he's on 4 life and I wasted all my burn.
Game 3: This was a really broken and satisfying game. I get down a turn 1 Lackey, he does nothing on turn 1 and I get Siege Gang into play. He then lays down a Confidant which I kill with a Gempalm. Turn 3 I get Chieftain and he scoops.
Match 4: against UR control with 3 or 4 Cliques, Counterspell, Fire/Ice, Vedalken Shackles, Teferi, Jace etc.
Game 1: We play a long war of attrition where he plays 2 Cliques, Teferi and a Jace which I all manage to kill with Fanatics and Bolts. In the end I am on 4 Mountain, a Vial with 4 counters and a Siege Gang in hand, while he has 0 cards in hand, and 4 or 5 lands. I have this right? Wrong, he topdecks his third Vendilion Clique. Very unfortunate for me, he takes Siege Gang and I proceed to draw Mountain and Mountain. He topdecks a Snapcaster Mage and after a third land I just lost. Unbelievable.. But I was convinced I could kill him in the other 2 games.
Game 2: I board out my Warren Instigator as he has Spell Snare, Lightning Bolt and Fire/Ice. I get down Fanatic, Ringleader and a Chieftain. He is on 4 cards and with 5 lands untapped. I decide not to attack as I'm afraid of Teferi. He has it and plays it EOT, dodged a bullet there. Eventually I overwhelm him on card advantage and my 6 REB effects really helped out here as all of his threats are blue.
Game 3: I have to mulligan and receive a keepable hand with Lackey or Vial. I can't really get anything going. I topdeck 3 Ringleaders and 3 Siege Gangs and they just sat there in my hand. Eventually I get down a Ringleader and end up on 8 cards. I decide to discard one of my Siege Gangs as I had 2 others in hand anyway, this proved to be a crucial mistake. He gets down a Vedalken Shackles, which I have no answer to as I did not board in my Tuktuk not expecting an artifact. He then proceeds to counter my Siege Gangs and I really regret discarding the third. After a while my 3 Siege Gangs and 3 Ringleaders are in my graveyard and he controls the 4th Ringleader. It gets killed as well somehow and there are no creatures on board while he controls a Shackles. Meanwhile time is running out and I see no way to win the game as I have no means of overwhelming the board anymore. I decide to opt for drawing and we do in fact draw.
Match 5 against Hive Mind.
Game 1: I saw him play Hive Mind earlier and made a mental note. I mulligan a keepable hand of 2 Mountain, Vial, Fanatic, Matron, Gempalm and SGC because I know it will not be enough against him. My second hand contains 1 Mountain, 2 Lackeys, Matron, Ringleader and Instigator. This seems keepable. I manage to turn 4 kill him while he only plays a Grim Monolith.
Game 2: I am prepared with my 6 REBs and Stingscourger. I have a hand of Lackey, Lackey, Vial, REB, Matron, Chieftain and Instigator. He leads with Island and passes. I was really unsure what to do. After a while, I figure my best shot is to lead with Lackey. He plays Ancient Tomb, Show and Tell, Hive Mind and Slaughter Pact. Had I lead with the Vial or kept my mana open for REB or if he would Show and Tell Emrakul I could have won but alas, this was the worst that could happen. I gambled and lost.
Game 3: I mull to 6, he mulls to 5. I lead with Vial. I succesfully manage to REB his first Show and Tell on turn 2. But he has an Intuition into Show and Tell for a second try. I don't have a second REB and we both lay down a face down card. I bet you know how this one ends. Yes, I have the Matron, search up my Stingscourger and return his Emrakul. After that, I quickly killed him. Sweet, I beat our worst matchup! Although Dredge might be a little worse for my current build...
I end 4-0-1, a pretty solid record I'd say and in a normal tournament I would have been able to play for the prizes, but unfortunately not now. I think this build is pretty much perfect right now. The only thing I might change next time is play 4 Tower of the Magistrate in the sideboard to switch with Wastelands against Maverick and Esperblade to have a way to dispatch of their germ tokens :).
Team R&D
Hey fellas! Ive been lurking around this forum for quite some time now but just signed up today. Im a big Goblin fan and Ive also been playing this deck for a few ages.
I realy like the ideas of Mogg Fanatic, Goblin Guide and Skirp Prospector and I think that im going to test these guys again.
Kiki-Jiki is just awesome and not only a over-kill or win-more card. It has an insane impact on the board position. Hes just able to pull important stuff off and all you need is just one or two other Goblins. Matron tutor, Stingscourger bounce, Piledriver kill, Chieftain pump, Ringleader advantage, Warren doublestrike lakey, Tuktuk artifact hate....
I like GoboLords thoughts about Sulfuric Vortex and I think that hes right. It realy helps vs lifelink crap and can somtetimes even kill an oponnent if the board is stalled.
I went to a bigger Legacy event here in Germany yesterday with about ~140 players and decided to play my MonoR Goblins. I went 3-3 before i dropped out.
Here are my list and a litle tournament report from the few notes took.
Maindeck:
16x Mountain
4x Wasteland
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Warren Instigator
4x Goblin Piledriver
2x Stingscourger
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
2x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Siege-Gang Commder
1x Kiki-Jiki Mirrorbreaker
2x Tarfire
2x Pyrokinesis
4x Aether Vial
Sideboard:
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Pyrokinesis
1x Stingscourger
3x ReB
Explanations to the Main:
20 Lands in MonoR is just the right number I think. Screw/Flood doesnt happen that to often.
4 Piledriver cauz I just love that dude and would never cut this explosive bomb. He just enables so many kills and often just works as a removal for a big KotR or something.
2 Stingscourger cauz of the bounce for the Reanimator or Sneak&Show creatures (except Progenitus ofc).
1 Sharpshooter for Noble H´s, Lingering Souls and other common stuff.
2 Tarfire / 2 Pyrokinesis. You get Tarfire from Ringleader and you can tutor for it if needed. The 2 damage are usually enough and I really dont miss the third damage from a Lightning Bolt very often. It kills a T1 Mother or whatever would chump / block your Lackey / Instigator. Pyrokinesis is there for either bigger stuff like KotR / Goyf / Ooze or for mass removal against Noble H´s, Lingering Souls etc.
Sideboard:
I actually wanted to play Mindbreak Traps but mine didnt arrive in time (bought from the internet) and I also missed another TukTuk Scrapper.
4 Chalice vs Combo and Burn
4 LotV against Dredge, Reanimator, Loam etc. Ive decided to play LotV after some thinking and not a split of Relics and Crypts. The problem is that you sometimes have to Mull 1-3 times to get it and if you draw it its a dead card. But you keep the graveyard clean from the very beginning and you dont get it again with Ringleader. Relics / Crypts can be countered, gripped, chaliced and whatever and once you used it they can just refill.
1 Pyrokinesis against Maverick, Tribals and Lingering Souls.
1 Stingscourger vs Reanimator
3 ReB vs Chain of Vapor / Echoing Truth on Leyline and Show&Tell.
Soooo........
I did a lot of testing and felt quite comfortable with my list cauz Ive found it to be very solid. I had no idea what the meta was going to be but I expected a lot of Maverick & Delver and my Goblins did very very good against those while testing but..... lets see:
1st Match against B/W Planeswalker, Lingering Soul controll stuff:
G1 He began and held his 7 while I mulled to 5 holding a hand with Mountain, Wasteland, Lackey, Ringleader, Matron. He begins dropping a swamp n go. I draw a mountain play the one from my opening hand, lackey and go. He dropped Marsh Flats fetching a Plains and goes with Chrome mox removing Hymn to tourach followed by a Liliana of the Vail which let me sac my Lackey (dumb bitch!). The following turns I drew dead and couldnt manage to get anything on the board while he disrupts my hand and beats me with Lingering Soul token. Sorin joins the party and i scoop the following turns.
I looked at my SB and noticed i had nothing but a Pyrokinesis which I then boarded for 1 Stingscourger.
G2 I hold an average hand an start the game with Mountain, Lackey go. He dropped Plains, go. I knew what was coming and as I was going to attack he StP my Lackey. I couldnt match to get anything goin again cauz of that damn Liliana and discard while he got 4 flying Spirits. My Sharshooter got StP and i didnt draw any of my 3 Pyrokinesis while the Spirits beat me to one life. I draw and scoop.
I was really pissed aftrer that match...
0-1
2nd Match Burn
G1 I mulled to 6 and held a hand with 1 Mountain, 2 Lackey, 1 Matron, 1 Instigator, 1 Chiftain. He begins with Mountain Chain Lightning. Still pissed from the 1st game my mood became even worse.. I play Mountain, Lackey, go. In his turn he plays Mountain, Hellspark and attacks for 3. I attack and having no other land I chose to drop the Instigator with Lackey. In his turn he chose to burn me for 3 and I go to 11. I attack bringing in Chieftain with Firststrike followed by Matron tutoring Kiki-Jiki who enters the board with the Lackey hit. He again burns me for 3 and I eot copy Chieftain. In my turn copy Chieftain again and kill.
I board 4 Chalice for 2 Stingscourger, 1 TukTuk, 1 Sharpshooter.
G2 He begins with Mountain suspend Rift Bolt. I held an average 7 and played Mountain, Vial, go. He burns me for 3 and plays another Mountain. My turn Vial goes to 1, Mountain, Instigator go. He burns my Instigator, drops a Mountain and attacks with a Hellspark. I eot Lackey. In my turn Vial ticks up, drop Mountain, play Chieftain and attack dropping another Chieftain I just drew. He plays a Mountain burns me for 3 and passes. With no Fuel on the Hand left I attacked. He tapped 3 and played Volcanic Fallout. I was confused and said "Ok, but why?". He somehow was the opinion that the Fallout would make a Chieftain temporally lose the +1/+1 ability and my Goblins therefor had to die. I called a judge who explained to him that he was wrong and that all he did by playing the Fallout simply just were 2 damage to all of my Goblins 3/3 Goblins. After that he scoops.
1-1
3rd Match Punishing Maverick
G1 I held an average 7 not knowing what I was going to play against. He begins with Savannah followed by a Mother of Runes and I thought "Aight". On my turn I play a Mountain and Tarfire the old Lady. He drops Heath, fetches another Savannah and plays a Zenith for 1 bringing a Noble Hierarch. My turn was Mountain, Instigator, go. He StP my Instigator, dropped a Land, played a Noble H and swung for 2. I couldnt get much going for the rest of the game cauz of StP and a exalted flying Elspeth token deals some sick damage. Scoop.
I board Pyrokinesis for 1 Piledriver and wished for that second TukTuk eventhough I havent seen a Stoneforge or any equipments the 1st game.
G2 My hand was the bomb. Me on the play it was Mountain, Lackey, go. All he had was Grove giving me 1 life and him a Noble H. I Pyro the Noble and attack bringing in a Matron that looked for Kiki-Jiki after that I play Mountain and Instigator, pass. He drops a Plains and gives me 1 life again bringing him an Ooze. I kill the Ooze and go big with attack into Kiki-Jiki, copy Matron searching a Commander who hits the field followed by a Piledriver. He scoops. Thats how its done bitches! :D
G3 Was really fucked up. I managed to put early preassure on him and got him down to 10 very quick. But he had 3 StP and a Ooze that got him about 6 Life followed by Elspeth and a Stoneforge into Jitte. My deck meanwhile screwed me hard after the first couple of turns giving me waaaaay too much lands and my 2 Ringleaders were fucked up aswell. The 1st gave me a single Piledriver and the 2nd gave me 2 Lackeys!!! Facing down an 8/8 Ooze with a 2 counter Jitte on it supported by an Elspeth, a Mother of Runes and a Pridemage I scoop on 12 Life.
I whupped Maverick all day in testing but it just had to happen that I lose to the deck in a tournament game... Having no more chance of hitting T8 i was realy pissed...
1-2
4th Match RUG Delver
G1 I hold a good 7 and he begins with Scalding Tarn, go. I was quite certain of him playing either Delver or Sneak&Show. I had to choose between playing a lackey, a vial or nothing. I chose to play the Lackey cauz I dindt want my Vial to get dazed and the Lackey would eat a bolt no matter which turn I would have played him (allthough I hoped he would force it). He eot fetches Volcanic and Bolts as I expected. In his turn he plays Tropical and Delver leaving the Volcanic open. I play Mountain Tarfire Delver and cauz that worked I followed with Vial which got dazed! He plays another Delver, pass. I drop a Mountain playing a Piledriver who gets forced ("Ok wierd" was what I thought on that play). Delver didnt flip and he attacked for one. After that he played Ponder which gave him another Tropical followed by a Goyf (6/7!!). In my turn I cast a Piledriver who again gets forced (lol), pass. Delver didnt flip and he attacks for 7 dropping me down to 12. I play a Mountain and cast Stingscourger, bounce got stifled pass. Delver flipped showing me a Force. He attacked with both and Stingscourger chumped Goyf. I got to 9. In my turn I play a Ringleader while he just had 1 card (force) in hand. Ringleader gave me Piledriver and Lackey, pass. He again attacks with both. I block and cast Pyrokinesis removing Lackey, Force removing Spellpierce, Pyrokinesis removing Piledriver (lol). Ringleader and Goyf die while I take 3 again and go down to 6. I play Stingscourger off the Top and bounce Delver. In his turn he plays his Delver and passes. I pay echo, pass. Delver did not flip, pass. Tarfire Delver, attack with Stingssourger who got burned. He draws and passes. With having nothing else I cast TukTuk Scrapper and pass. He drew dead for the rest of the game and TukTuk + Lackey kill him.
I board 2 Surgical for 1 TukTuk and 1 Sharpshooter
G2 He begins Volcanic, pass. I played Mountain, go. He eot Brainstormed. On his turn he played a Fetchland, Delver and a Ponder. I again drop a Mountain and go. Delver flipped showing me another Ponder. Tarfire on Delver got countered. He played Ponder and attacked for 3. After that Fetchland, Nimble M, pass. I play Wasteland, Vial pass. He plays a Fetchland goes for ******** and hits me for 6. Vial ticks up and I play a Matron for Tarfire. He attacks and I chump Nimble and drop to 8. On my turn Vial ticks up, I Wasteland his only Volcanic and risk to Surgical it to prevent me from Burn. I see that he only has a Fetchland in his hand but still a Taiga in his deck (sucks!). I Tarfire his Delver and cast a Lackey, pass. He attacks I chump and eot Vial a Instigator into play. On my turn Vial goes up to 3 and in comes a Chieftain. I risk to attack and the Instigator Firststrikes another Chieftain into play hitting him for a total of 8 and he goes to 10, pass. Nimble chose not to attack and I kill him the following Turns.
Allmost every game I tested like Delver went kinda like those here. They manage to put pressure on you and they handle your early threats with Counter + Burn but once it comes to mid-game you are able to stabilise and turn the tide.
2-2
5th match TES
I knew what he was playing cauz one my friends who played the same deck scouted him. The matchup sucks and I didnt have my Mindbreaktraps but I allready gave up on my luck that day anyway. Did I mention that I never win a die roll? However...
I mulled to 6 six because my first hand was way too slow. My 6 were the best possible but I had no land at all. In my "yeah whatever mood" Ive decided to keep since the Matchup sucked anyway and that even more with every card less in hand. Well it came what had to come... No land in 4 turns and he kills me.
I board 4 Vial 1 TukTuk 1 Sharpshooter vs 4 CotV and 2 Surgical
G1 I hold a solid hand including a Chalice. He didnt know what I was playing so far. I decided to go with Mountain, Vial and keep the Chalice for the next turn hoping that he cant go off on his 1st. He plays Gemstone pass. Vial goes up, Mountain Chalice for 1. In response Brainstorm and I pass the Turn. He plays another Gemstone and calls the judge cauz he had a question regarding the Chalice (I knew that he was going to ask for Shattering Spree and replicate but Ive decided not to say anything). So the judge came answered his question and he Burning Wished for it in his turn and passed. I eot Vial a Lackey in. Vial ticks up play an Instigator and Lackey attacks and drops Kiki-Jiki. I then play a Chalice for 0 to make sure that he has to pay all his 3 mana (in case he had another land) to get rid of both. As I expected he had a 3rd land and destroyed both of my Chalice. Eot I Vial a Piledriver in and copy it with Kiki-Jiki. I play another Piledriver, copy and kill! :D
I was happy while the TES player (a strange guy anyway) was pissed this time.
G3 He begins with Gemstone and Ponder. I drop Mountain, Vial and Chalice for 0, pass. He plays anonter Gemstone, Brainstorm, pass. I tick Vial up drop a Mountain, play Instigator and pass the turn. He wishes for Spree and passes the turn. Vial ticks up, Wasteland, destroys one Gemstone. Instigator attacks 1st hit Kiki-Jiki second Matron into Piledriver, pass. He destorys Chalice but cant go off with no other Land and i eot Vial and copy Piledriver. Kill next turn. Yeah bitches :D
3-2
6th Match Smallpox
Both games I had to mulligan, had bad hands, had to discard, had to sacrifie and got beaten by Factories. Sucked big time!!!
3-3
I then dropped cauz I was pissed as hell and 2 of my 3 buddies dropped out aswell.
Overall the list Ive played is very solid. Even though it sometimes srewed me in the tournament it allmost never screwed me in testing. The match I lost to Maverick was simply bad luck and I feel that if I would have played on the top tables where more Mavericks and RUGs were around things could have gone different.
Hope you enjoyed my post : )
I have the feeling that more (and better) direct damage is key to survival for goblins. Red is very popular (a lot of decks are splashing it) right now and that is for a reason...
Sound kinda stupid, to not follow this trend as well, considering that goblins is a red deck and doesn't need to splash for it.
Here is what I was thinking of-maybe it needs some fixing but on first look it seems fine:
Core (20):
4x Wasteland
4x Vial
4x Lackey
4x Matron
4x Ringleader
Manabase (18):
8x Red Fetch
2x Taiga
2x Badlands
6x Mountain
Removal (8):
3x Gempalm Incinerator
1x Stingscourger
1x Warren Weirding
2x Tarfire
1x Pyrokinesis
Other (14):
4x Goblin Chieftain
2x WInstigator
1x Goblin Piledriver
1x Tuktuk Scrapper/TSH
1x Kiki-Jiki
2x SCG
3x Dechant's Path
Sums up to 8 Non-goblin cards, which is exactly as much, as during Misstep times.
Sideboard (15):
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Chalice of the Void
2x MBT
1x TSH
1x Sharpshooter
1x Pyrokinesis
2x Perish
I also have to check the manabase for this setup, but generally this list should win all kinds of creature based decks and the SB should kill combo. If burn finds less play the CotV could become Pyroblasts.
Any thoughts welcome!
Gobbos: Kings of flavortext!
Go and play Burn then. There isnt enough space for direct damage spells in our decks. And with the increase of Burn the number sideboard cards against it will increase aswell so going with the trend can be (as often) wrong and dumb.
Sure, lets play the same list we have been playing for years... while other decks adjust to the meta game. Goblin decks that are successful right now are already playing more burn than we traditionally did. So there's no denying that it is effective.
Hi! Welcome to the Source!
I need to comment this. I see no reason to Knesis that Noble there. I mean, the better option is: attack. If he blocks, he loses Noble, and you play Instigator. You can Knesis the next guy he plays, whatever it is. If he have a removal, well, you connected with Lackey, and should win from there, since you'd still have Knesis. If he doesn't block, then you proceed as you did. I'd still hold Knesis even longer, because if he played ANY guy next turn, you'd Knesis them both.
Other than that, ruff luck on the Ringleaders...
EDIT: There's also this:
Imo, turn 1 you did right, but T2 you should have probably played Vial first. The deal is it could only be countered by FoW (or Pierce, but is less likely). Then, if it resolved, I'd pass, take 3 from Delver, and burn it next turn. You could afford the 2 damage, and playing around Daze once you had resolved Vial would be the right thing.
If he FoW'd your Vial, then burn the bitch down, because if he had another counter, he would have almost no more hand, and you could take care of Delver with other means.
ps: Still reading... =p
EDIT 2:
I thought that P. Fire/Grove could work here, specially with a green splash (made easier by Groove). Would really like if someone could test it.
Other than that, Sudden Shock seems sexy as hell.
@ Planeswalker: Saying someones idea is "wrong and dumb" before testing it is not a nice way to start things over here. You may be right, but there are better ways of saying it.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Hey there and thx for the welcome.
I didnt mean to call his idea dumb I was just calling going with the mainstream dumb but sorry anway your right here.
I realy feel like goblins needs a push but I dont think that Burn is the way to go. Grove + PF could still be something worth playing or at least testing but I fear that running 8-10 burn spells will hurt our main strategy too much.
I think that we have to hope for new cards to give us the push needed to be realy competitive again.
I dont know why you think that gobs isnt competitive at the moment. In testing a least I get good results. The Maverick matchup is very much in our favor, the Canadian matchup is pretty good, if you run low nonbasic count. The Esper matchup is not favored but winnable, dredge is good with fanatics main and enough gravehate in the board. Even combo is beatable unless they have the nuts, because ANT is very soft to GY hate.
I actually dont know what kind of goblin im missing, exept maybe slightly better ones that exist. Artifactremoval for 1R, Sharpshooter with Haste, Earwig Squads without Prowl. Those are the ones that are on my wishlist, but they arent needed.
2 points of advice here:
(1) if you are on the draw against Maverick (no matter which kind; GW or GWr) you should side out Goblin Lackeys - all of them. They have quite a lot cards that answers him:
* StoP
* Punishing Fire
* Scavenging Ooze
* Tarmogoyf
* Noble Hierarch
* Dryad Arbor
* Mother of Runes
* Knight of reliquary
All of them are quite possible on turn 1/2.
(2) I don't know when you noticed that you were playing against the PUNISHING variant of Maverick, but you should certainly side in 4 Leylines here. Leylines don't just defuse their Grove-engine, but is also keeps Knights and Tarmogoyfs small and counters GSZ's reshuffle. At it's WORST, Leylines will trade 1:1 with one of their Pridemages, whereas they might sometimes even have to use a GSZ to find it (2:1 here).
I'm not sure wether Lackeys should be sided out even if you are on the play, but leaving them in SB when you are on the draw is absolutely the right move.
Sceptical kitty is sceptical.
Would you like to show us a few examples before we can conclude that "there is no denying that it is effective"?
(Don't get me wrong, I'm always in favor of more removal/burn, but I doubt that you are right here)
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Gobolord, I absolutely dont agree with your advice here. Lackey is absolutely useful in this matchup, since they (GW) only run 4 STP to succesfully handle our little fellow. You can just clear the way with Pyrokinesis or other removal ftw. (like he did ;))
I had a lot of plays where they lead with Noble or GSZ into 3/3 Knight, just to have them killed and Lackey takes the game. If youre on the play its even better (Fanatic ftw)
Also GSZ never hits the grave, Leyline is useless.
Avatara is right, the lists (at least mine:D) runs more removal than before. For a long time it was 4-5 removal (4 Incinerator+Weirdings) where now its 2-4 Incinerator+2Kinesis+2Tarfire/Bolt+XFanatics
Well the classic lists only used to run 4 Gempalm Incinerators. Today we often run 2 Pyrokinesis, 2 Tarfires or Bolts, 1 Stingscourger and 3 Gempalm Incinerators or any combination of those cards. That's a 100% increase in spot removal/direct damage cards. That's not even counting cards like Goblin Sharpshooter whom are also repeatable removal cards in a way.
I don't think Leylines stop GSZ from shuffling back in. It goes straight from the stack to the library. But this is a minor benefit if at all; the primary benefits are stopping the Punishing Fire recursion and shrinking Knights.
Also, GSZ for Pridemage to blow up a Leyline isn't a 2-for-1 in your favor. It's a 1-for-1.
Small one this time.
5 rounds + Top 8
Round 1 – Deadguy Ale
Game 1 – I Keep Lackey, Tuktuk, S.Shooter, Matron and 3 lands. He IoK’s me, then Hymn, then plays Bob (that dies to a Trafire), then Hymn, then Iok (that takes nothing), then Vindicate on a land, then Seize. After all that I draw a Matron for Ringleader, don’t get discarded, draw more 3 guys, and win from there.
Game 2 – I mull and he takes my vial, then kills my Instigator, the gets jitte on, and I don’t get a 3rd land.
Game 3 – I keep 2x Vial, 2x Lackey, Instigator, 2 lands. By turn 5 or so I had only drawn lands and 2 Tarfires, that got a Bob and a Stoneforge. When finally I got a Matron, I won.
1-0
Round 2 – Dredge
Game 1 – I lead with Lackey that connects into Matron for SGC (mistake). He Carefulls Study, then plays Imp, then Breaktrough, dredging a bunch. I pass. He dredge, then attempts to reanimate Flame Kin-Zealot. I Tarfire my Matron in response, removing 3 Bridges, leaving him with only a 2/2. I get him some turns later.
Game 2 – I mull into Lackey, Knesis, Sting, Shooter, 2 lands. He Therapies himself, then me, then me again for Sting. Later he had 2 bad dredges, and get only 4 tokens. I kill them all with Knesis + Shooter, then matron for Prospector, and that is enough to lock him.
2-0
Round 3 – Maverick
Game 1 – He plays Noble, then 4/4 Knight, Then Stone + Fire/Ice, that gets Tuktuk’d before connecting. Then Knight, then removal + Knight, and a Thalia. Soon I fall to 11, and start chumping. I grind it out with 2 Ringleaders, 2 SGC, and 1 Stingscourger, saving Tarfires for 2 Moms. Gempalm kill his other guys, and he has “only” 3 knights. When he attacks me with 2, chump one, and go down to 3. Then Sting his untapped one, attack him down to 7, and pass with some blockers.
Game 2 – We grind again, and he has some big knights again. I get him to 5, and Ringleaders got me 2 Tarfires, but I can’t find a 3rd one, and can’t even deal 1 more dmg, since I have to chump every turn because was at 9 =/.
Game 3 – I play uber fast because there was little time. Vial T1, Relic T2, with only 2 lands. He untaps with Mom, plays Stoneforge for F/I, plays it and equips. When he does that Vial is at 4. I Vial Ringleader and Gempalm Stone. He gives pro Red, and hits me. I do to 14. It’s the 1st turn of the 5. He plays another Stoneforge, gets tapped out, and passes with only it up.
I get a SGC from Vial, play Chieftain, and Tarfire Stone. I get in for 17 dmg, and that was his exact life total.
3-0
Round 4-5: ID
Top 8: Maverick
Game 1 – I mull, he plays Noble, Stone that dies in reponse to Jitte equipping it, the plas that Elf, then equips noble, that gets Tarfire to. Unfortunately I draw bad as hell, and the 1/1 hits me a few times with Jitte. I don’t find Matron or Tuktuk, and after a SGC and some Gempalms, I manage to kill his guy, but deplete my hand. He plays a Qasali, and kills me with it. Drew 4 Vials this game.
Game 2 – I Ringleader 3 Times. He has 1 huge Knight and Jitte and Sylvan Safekeeper (fuck, it’s hard to beat this). I Tarfire one of my guys one turn, then Gempalm another, so Jitte would not get counters. The next turn I draw a Relic, and play 2 Lackeys. He attack with 2 big Knights, 1 with Jitte. I block 1 with Ringleader, and 1 with 2 Lackeys. With the Jitte trigger on the stack, I pop Relic, and the 2 10/10 Knights die. Next turn I Matron for Tuktuk, and Tarfire the Stone he tries to Equip, leaving him with only a Dryad and a Noble he just played. Tuktuk gets Jitte. He E.Es 2 Vials away. I finally play my SGC. He StP’s. I play another, then Chieftain. He dies.
Game 3 – I mull. He plays Mom, then Noble, then Knight 3/3. My turn I Sting the Knight. He gives pro-red. I Knesis Knight and Mom. He gets a Safekeeper. I don’t draw Matron and Ringleader the entire game, and have to remove a SGC for Knesis so Jitte would not equip on something. (he gave it Shroud in response to my knesis that was in response to him equipping Jitte, so Jitte did not get equipped). I don’t draw Tuktuk/Matron/Ringleader, but manage to kill a Knight. Unfortunately Jitte connects with that flying elf, and I don’t get to remove it. On a critical turn, after SGC and Kiki, I manage to kill the equipped guy after he removed counters to get my board. Unfortunately again, I drew lands (7th and 8th) for 2 turns in a row, while he drew a Qasali, then an StP for my “topdecked” Prospector, that would buy me 2 turns for jitte… =/
3-1
Top 5-8: Maverick
Game 1 – He plays mom, that dies, then I get Vial. He plays Noble then plays knight and Stone ( I destroy the equip), Qasali and Thalia. I fall to 9, and play some blockers. He don’t plays his 5th land, and gets upset. I read him on Elspeth. He pays 4, then taps Knight for a 5th mana, then plays Elspeth, and hits me with a 7/7 Qasali, dropping me to 2. I Had SGC, 3 tokens, tuktuk and Ringleader and Matron on board. I play Chieftain, Stingscourger on Thalia, and Tafire on Stone, hitting for 19. GG
Gaem 2 – He leads with Zenith, then 3/3 Knight. Both gets Knesis’d. He gets Dueling ground, and I hit for 6 in 3 turns. He gets a Qasali, and hits me with Sword L/S 3 turns, and I chump. I Matron for Prospector, to get me mana to play Kiki, and copy Matron for S.Shooter. I play Shooter, he StPs Kiki. I sac for mana, and Tarfire him 3 times (2 of which came from ringleaders), then hit for 2, and he dies.
4-1
Top 5-6: TES
I lose the 1st on his 2nd turn, win the 2nd with MB Trap, lose the 3rd on his 2nd turn after discard. I had no Surgicals or Traps post- Diminish Returns.
4-2-2
I really loved the list. Played -1 Tuktuk, -2 Mountains, +1 Warchief, +1 Skirk, +1 S.Shooter on the MD. SB was weird. Relevant was 3 relic, 3 knesis, 1 Tuktuk.
I loved all the cards, and want to keep Prospector and Warchief in. 20 lands run almost perfectly, and I lost the top8 to flood.
On my last match against Maverick I sided out 4 Instigators and 3 Lackeys (just 7 cards to bring in). I was on the draw, and on the play I definitely keep Lackeys. They have few removal on the play, and trading it with Mom/Dryad is awesome. Instigator, on the other hand, is too slow after SB.
Also, on the Draw, Lackey Is the worst topdeck you can have, and I usually save them for Knesis on mid game. If you have better cards, then I suggest removing lackey on the draw.
I got really happy with my playing too, only making 2 visible mistakes on the tournament, that were Tarfiring the “wrong” guy. I beat Mav twice, and lost once on G3 after a mull and drawing 8 lands and not 1 Matron/Ringleader. Our MU against them is quite good, and we don’t need Anarchy if we have SB slots for Knesis and Relic.
Will try adding 1-2 knesis to the main, to open SB slots for combo, but I really don’t want to take Tarfires out, since the 1 cc removal has proven to be necessary so many times.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
When you compare "classic lists" to "lists today" there is apparently a span of over 3 years. I can't remember having seen a single Goblin deck with fewer than 5 removal (in fact the standard used to be 6-8 removal-spells in MD).
Plus, you are mixing up "spot removal" and "burn" now. You first proposed that direct damage is commonly played today (that's why people are splashing red everywhere and the "Burn.dec" is cool again). Agreed. However the fact that we play more spotremoval/burn (whatever you mean) doesnt prove that it's effective. YOu were talking about successful goblin-lists. I'd like to see examples.
+1
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Ok guys so the SCG Birmingham is this weekend and I had gone back and forth on decks but I'm gonna sling the goblins. I'm gonna run Rb just because I want to try and pummel RUG and Maverick as much as possible plus I feel like weirding gives some outs against reanimator and show and tell that I like to have. Plus I like leyline out of the board to improve the dredge/reanimator matchups as well.
I'm going to run something close to the list below:
Mana:
6 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa
1 Swamp
1 Badlands
Core:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Matron
4 Aether Vial
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mogg Fanatic
2 Warren Weirding
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
Flex:
2 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Piledriver
2 Siege Gang Commander
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Gempalm Incinerator
Total
60
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Perish
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
Total
15
I had a couple questions though for you guys.
1) I know alot of people are advocating Chieftain but I'm just not a fan. Can you guys try and convince me why its better than warchief? When I remember playing goblins in the past I just felt like warchief was a house that let me explode onto the board alot of times and just get the most out of the deck. Plus it makes the mana curve easier on me when I can drop ringleaders for 3 and SCG for 4 etc. I just feel like thats stronger than the +1/+1 of Chieftain. Please try and convince me though cuz I'm curious about where you feel Chieftain is stronger?
2) Instigator. I know people are running various amounts of him but I can't see going above 2. It seems fairly horrendous against maverick, better against RUG and even better against Esperblade but I feel like its better as lackeys 5-6 rather than 4 of them. Scatman I didn't see any references to him in your latest report so I'm curious how instigator performed for you? What about you Mantis?
I am hopefully going to get a couple local tournies in tomorrow night and thursday night as well as the legacy challenge on saturday so I will have some more insight and hopefully shake any rust off.
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