All B/R update speculation.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

First, I never claimed to have a list. If I did, you might have a point.

I know you don't.

Second, Channelfireball is not the infallible word of Magic the Gathering.

I never said they were, I was just saying that some high level players have expressed the same opinion as me. But I mean that was a cool strawman.

Third, since everyone and their mother wants me to do so, I'll try and make you all a vague deck list of something that can abuse personal tutor in the deck post.

Good luck with that.

[DragoFireheart]

I know you don't.

Ok...? lol?

I never said they were, I was just saying that some high level players have expressed the same opinion as me. But I mean that was a cool strawman.

You seem to put them in high regard. You were using the articles as some sort of evidence of whether TM is good or bad. You shoudln't. They're just articles of someones opinion.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

You seem to put them in high regard. You were using the articles as some sort of evidence of whether TM is good or bad. You shoudln't. They're just articles of someones opinion.

Why is their opinion less valuable than yours?

[CorpT]

Drago, what they're saying is: put up or shut up. And you're refusing to put up...

[DragoFireheart]

Why is their opinion less valuable than yours?

They're not less valuable than mine, but they aren't anymore valuable then my opinion. Everyone's opinion is of equal value at this point.

This is why I asked you all of those questions on the previous page regarding your test results. Those will hold more weight and than anyone's opinion.

Drago, what they're saying is: put up or shut up. And you're refusing to put up...

Oh boy, it's CorpT. I'm in trouble now!

What exactly am I "putting up" again? My mysterious deck list? The crystal ball showing when TM will be banned?

[CorpT]

Oh god, it's CorpT. I'm in trouble now!

What exactly am I "putting up" again? My mysterious deck list? The crystal ball showing when TM will be banned?

The decklist and testing results against Tier 1 decks proving that your new deck is completely busted and destroys the field and will continue to once decks react to your busted deck.

[DragoFireheart]

The decklist and testing results against Tier 1 decks proving that your new deck is completely busted and destroys the field and will continue to once decks react to your busted deck.

I don't remember claiming any of that, but I did Brainstorm a deck list off the top of my head on the previous page.

EDIT FOR RESULTS:
One Round of testing 3 games v.s. Junk:
Game 1 - I have a Jace in hand and I TM on my draw step and do some other stuff, go to my next turn. My opp misplays and puts in batterskull on the end of my first turn.
Second Turn, I play Jace and bounce his BSkull token and beat down with Snappy beats. I would not have one without his misplay.

Game 2 - This game was a blow out. I just tempoed way ahead and killed him quickly. Pitched TM to force a removal spell.

Game 3 - I took 3 extra turns, won amazingly. The first extra turn I took I setup with SDT and passed then my opp killed all my creatures. I was stuck exploring but I got my SDT to set up two TM. Took a few extra turns, swarmed him. Pretty amazing.

Notes: Card is awful in your opening hand, but that wasn't a huge issue all of the time. Being able to shuffle away two cards with Brainstorm is one of the reasons decks play it. being able to play it at instant speed was a life saver game three since I had full mana for two turns in a row.

This is a parody!!!111

[TooCloseToTheSun]

They'r not less valuable than mine, but they aren't anymore valuable then my opinion. Everyone's opinion is of equal value at this point.

This is why I asked you all of those questions on the previous page regarding your test results. Those will hold more weight and than anyone's opinion.

So why did you tell me not to listen to their opinions if everyone has an equally valid opinion? Not that I really believe that everyone's opinion is equal, because that is just not true. As for the rest of my test results, all the notes are at home so I can't post them right now. But in general the card was very underwhelming. I remember playing against Mav, Esper, and this wierd UB thing my friend plays with Lilian OTV and Jace. There may have been more than that but that is all I can remember off the top of my head.

[CorpT]

So you're going to continue your typical "argument" tactics. Have fun with that.

[DragoFireheart]

So you're going to continue your typical "argument" tactics. Have fun with that.

Yes, my typical "argument" tactics on a discussion board where people argue their opinions. Such super secret tech!

[TooCloseToTheSun]

I don't remember claiming any of that, but I did Brainstorm a deck list off the top of my head on the previous page.

EDIT FOR RESULTS:
One Round of testing 3 games v.s. Junk:
Game 1 - I have a Jace in hand and I TM on my draw step and do some other stuff, go to my next turn. My opp misplays and puts in batterskull on the end of my first turn.
Second Turn, I play Jace and bounce his BSkull token and beat down with Snappy beats. I would not have one without his misplay.

Game 2 - This game was a blow out. I just tempoed way ahead and killed him quickly. Pitched TM to force a removal spell.

Game 3 - I took 3 extra turns, won amazingly. The first extra turn I took I setup with SDT and passed then my opp killed all my creatures. I was stuck exploring but I got my SDT to set up two TM. Took a few extra turns, swarmed him. Pretty amazing.

Notes: Card is awful in your opening hand, but that wasn't a huge issue all of the time. Being able to shuffle away two cards with Brainstorm is one of the reasons decks play it. being able to play it at instant speed was a life saver game three since I had full mana for two turns in a row.

Your list is esper stoneblade where you cut some disruption for win more cards. Just the worst.

Nice results, now if you could post something that actually happened instead of more hypotheticals. I guess that is just never going to happen.

[DragoFireheart]

Your list is esper stoneblade where you cut some disruption for win more cards. Just the worst.

Hey, you asked for it.

[JDK]

They're not less valuable than mine, but they aren't anymore valuable then my opinion. Everyone's opinion is of equal value at this point.

So the opinion of a professional in a given field, about his profession, (namely: Magic) is not more valuable than the opinion of a casual player?

Please excuse my ignorance, if you are a professional player yourself.

[Amon Amarth]

The unintentional irony of making this complant in LEGACY - the format for those who love still playing with Dark Ritual and Red Elemental Blast and Sylvan Library - is difficult to overstate.

I was only facetiously suggesting that they ban it. Delver is separated from the cards you mentioned by over a decade. Wizards should definitely have known better to print it (modern R&D, FFL, a defined color pie, etc.) because Blue should never get creatures of this caliber.

[CorpT]

Guys, he's a troll. That's about all he does.

[DragoFireheart]

So the opinion of a professional in a given field (namely: Magic) is not more valuable than the opinion of a casual player?

Please excuse my ignorance, if you are a professional player yourself.

I find it hard for anyone to have a professional opinion on a card that hasn't seen any tournament play. It would be one thing if I said Maverick is not a tier 1 deck and the article showed otherwise (clearly I'd be wrong). It's another when bother parties are speculating about a card that hasn't seen any play yet.

[DragoFireheart]

Your list is esper stoneblade where you cut some disruption for win more cards. Just the worst.

Nice results, now if you could post something that actually happened instead of more hypotheticals. I guess that is just never going to happen.

See, here is the problem. I asked the same of you yet you didn't provide. Why should I do anything different?

I'll agree to disagree on whether this card should be banned or not.

[Tammit67]

Clearly everyone does NOT have an equally valid opinion. I would rather consult a doctor with what their preferred way to deal with my recurring collapsed lungs than my mother.

On a similar vein, when well regarded players' opinions/results line up with my own testing in the more obvious shells, the card is not obviously broken. (Note not saying obviously not broken).

From multiple sources, some with testing, some without, most with a ton of experience with magic: Miracle time walk too inconsistent to want to dilute your deck. Additionally, even when it is easily cast, it is not often more than a free explore. Or the slot would be better spent on a card that progresses your board state

[TooCloseToTheSun]

See, here is the problem. I asked the same of you yet you didn't provide. Why should I do anything different?

I'll agree to disagree on whether this card should be banned or not.

I thought I gave you some of my real testing results. Isn't that what you based your little parody on?

[JDK]

I will tell you a secret: People can use a proxy or a program like Cockatrice to test the card before it is actually released as a real Magic card. They can also think about possible applications and situations, to find the strong and weak points of a card.

Please don't give away this secret, or Wizards might ban me for giving insiders an unfair advantage.

@CorpT
Trolls aren't supposed to make fools of themselves in order to just look stupid...so I doubt he is trolling.