[Deck] Death and Taxes

[S1N1STER]

Just went 4-0 at my a local event last night with my D&T deck. Played against combo elves, 43 Lands, TES, and then burn.

Jitte and sword of fire and ice killed a bunch of elves.

Turn 2 Thalia in game one vs. TES was real nice, lost game 2 even though I had a Canonist and 2x Revokers out due to a wipe away, but won game 3 with a leyline of sanctity in my opening hand, he put out 14 goblins with empty the warrens but I had out 2 moms and a stoneforge which fetched up a batterskull.

The games went on for a while against Lands but I remember Jotun grunt was a lifesaver both games.

And for burn I just sided in my 2x leylines, 4x E tutors, COP: red & Absolute law.

[Barbed Blightning]

Nice, good to see high standing with this deck. Would you mind posting you SB? I'm curious.

[S1N1STER]

My sideboard looks like:

4x Enlightened Tutor
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Grafdiggers Cage
1x Tormonds Crypt
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Serenity
1x Aura of Silence
1x CoP: Red
1x Absolute Law

[Curby]

Have you done any playtesting or done the math on just how many times you'd have to mull to open with at least one Leyline on the field, assuming 2 copies? The conventional wisdom for not running Leyline is that it takes too many slots. Is 2 really enough to matter, or do you end up mulling into oblivion trying to find one?

[S1N1STER]

Sunday was the 1st time I had leylines in my sideboard at all, I have been getting matched up agiasnt storm and burn a lot lately so I thought a little extra protection from what I originally had might be worth a try. My thinking was to look for an opening hand with either a E tutor or a leyline or one of the other hate cards.

Against storm I sided n the E Tutors, Ethersworn Canonist, and the Leylines. In game 2 I kept my hand that had a Ethersworn canonist and a phyrexian revoker not bothering to mull for a leyline. Game 3 my opening hand had a leyline so I took that instead.

Against burn I sided in the 4 tutors, CoP: red, Absolute law, and the leylines. In game 2 my opening hand had a leyline which was game over, game 3 I kept a hand with E tutor and grabbed a CoP: red on turn 2.

I may try something else next time.

[Curby]

"Leyline or other hate" is a much more reasonable stance than the "Leyline or mull" idea that I proposed, but at the same time Leyline's really only good if you can drop it for free and get immediate protection even when you're on the draw. If you can't reliably have it in your opener, it might be better off as a Tutor target floating around in your postboard deck and representing a virtual 5 chances of drawing it.

I almost wish you'd stick with it a little longer to see how it does averaged over a longer period of time. If you do so, please let us know what you find.

[Barbed Blightning]

Went 3-2 at a local tourney, lost to Junk and Reset-HighTide. Wins were against BW Stoneblade, Singleton Bant and some 7 yr-old's GW deck.

HT: Thalia again proves to be a champ, winning me g1 and having to be bounced 3 times g2. G3 she was absent, and mulled to 5. Tutored up a canonist, which got forced; Wheel and Grunt did their best and I swung lethal, but he went off.

Junk: Forgot to name deed with Revoker, named Kotr instead. Basically cost me the MU. Stony Silence also hurts a lot, and Zealous Persecution was pretty boss against me.

BW: Basically the same deck, except DnT is more stable. He thought flickerwisp bounced it to his hand (odd, since in the game before he actually flickered the target) so that may have cost him the game. Regardless, our SoLaS'd creatures bashed each other for a while until I got SoFI and won.

Bant: Weird deck. Can't be extirpated, but then again, inconsistent. He won game 2 with a Mind Sculptor, which I revoked game 3, and I won. don't expect it at a shop near you.

I was testing Path at this event, and after going up against a pretty diverse range of aggro decks, I gotta say it's not worth it. That said, Oust really doesn't seem to be much better; I've used it before and found it kind of lacking. Back to silver bullets, I guess.

[Curby]

Thanks for the thoughts, it's nice to see a diverse meta there. Sorry to hear that Oust isn't cutting it... I just got 3 to try out.

This isn't really serious, but we could replace some 4 Plains with Ancient Dens and run Dispatch in the side. Between Revoker, Equipment, and Vial, it could work...

[spedn7]

has any one tried condemn for extra removal it doesn't hit some utility creatures but in an aggro meta it could have some merit
@kirbysdi dispatch might be good in the late game but it seems like it would be inconstant in the early game

[Abantau]

took third place in a small tournament with a record of 1win 2 draws 0 loss

4 Flickerwhisp
4 serra avenger
4 mother of runes
3 stoneforge mystic
3 mangara of corondor
3 phyrexian revoker
3 jotun grunt
3 leonin arbiter

4 swords to plowshares
4 aether vial
1 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of light and shadow
1 sword of fire and ice

4 karakas
4 wasteland
4 rishadan port
10 plains

Sideboard
4 enlightened tutor
1 stoneforge mystic
1 phyrexian revoker
1 oblivion ring
1 phyrexian metamorph
1 tormod's crypt
1 wheel of sun and moon
1 ethersworn canonist
1 stony silence
3 cataclysm

DnT vs Gobs 1-1

Game 1: First he thought that i was playing merfolk with the turn 1 wasteland then vial. As i play plains turn2 he pause and thought and can't figure out my deck mechanics. stp'd chieftain and warchief and i stabilize on 11 life as i beat face with serra and sofi.
Board in: 3 cataclysm
Board out: 3 Jotun Grunt
Game 2: He's technically faster as he draw the nuts and blew me with aggression. with siege gang commander for the win.
Game 3: He new my deck mechanics and made the best out of goblin sharpshooter killing mangara and flickerwisp while StS on phyrexian revoker. It was already time and he's on turn 3 active player. vial in 2 Ringleaders revealing all gobs. talk about ancestral recall for red and the kikijiki thing. I have 2 StP at hand with no creatures on board and a jitte; As he declared attackers I took out a chieftain with StP to lessen the massive goblin attacks and took me down to 6. Me, Turn 4 active player, wishing for cataclysm and draw it! cast it and he read it over and over and was surprised with what it can do. He retained a chieftain and sacrifice the rest of his massive army. Turn 5 he played ringleader through vial and attacked with chieftain and ringleader but my last card StPd saved me from a loss.

RUG Delver 1-1

Game 1: This game was long because i mana flood but with a turn 1 Vial resolves and 3 MoMs on early board made him scratch his head and shrugs. MoM just blocks Mongoose and Tarmogoyfs and I StPd his Delvers. the MVP was Mangara of Corondor removing all his Volcanic islands with karakas mechanic and finally vialed a serra avenger and cast SoFI (thank goodness he has no counters at hand) and went on to win.
Board in: StoneForge mystic, Ethersworn Canonist, Phyrexian Metamorph
Board out: Phyrexian Revoker
Game 2: I was confident with 1 Plain, 2 Karakas and 1 Wasteland but his 2 wasteland hit my karakas and my wasteland was stifled and was sitting duck. as my ethersworn and vial was met with ancient grudge but manage to hold him off with Serra avenger and a single Jotun Grunt feeding on to his graveyard reaching 4 counters with only 2 mana for a long long time ( can't cast mangaras, flickerwisps in hand, i know bad draw and shuffling ) but as Jotun dies with nothing to feed on both graveyards he bolt Serra and Flipped delver and 2 1/1 mongoose and 1 goyf helped him win the game. Because of that Singleton Grun making goyf and mongoose look silly it drained so much time and Game 3 we call it draw as we both can't finish each other on 5 turns.

Esper Stoneblade 2-0

Game 1: IoK took out a MoM thankfully he didn't took out vial. on my turn thankfully he didn't counter my vial. on his turn2 stoneforge mystic fetched jitte and i felt cold sweats coming out on my face already. thankfully I dew StP and killed his stoneforge. He cast Jitte and I vialed in Stoneforge fetch my jitte and killed both our jitte via stoneforge. We waited and build our boards carefully but jotun grunt sending jitte back in my deck and flickerwisp my own stoneforge for jitte. He as 5 flying tokens through lingering souls prepare to block my flyers but I make sure MoM protects the one with Jitte and went on to win.
Board: didn't board anything
Game 2: It was a long waiting game as we build our boards. he made a massive token army with 3 Lingering Souls + flashback. He was about to put Jitte via stoneforge when I respond with Vial activation, He let it resolve and vialed in revoker naming stoneforge. mangara took out his jitte next turn and he didn't attack with his tokens and went with defense instead. and went on to win on turn 5 active player times up, with his tokens depleted as i use every jitte counters each turn on killing those pesky flying tokens.

[Barbed Blightning]

Thanks for the thoughts, it's nice to see a diverse meta there. Sorry to hear that Oust isn't cutting it... I just got 3 to try out.

This isn't really serious, but we could replace some 4 Plains with Ancient Dens and run Dispatch in the side. Between Revoker, Equipment, and Vial, it could work...

My concern is stony silence. It reallly hurts already, I fear to think what it'd be like with ancient dens out. Plus, they can waste them in response to take away metalcraft.

I'm going to test serenity and seal of cleansing this week. Should be interesting.

[overseer1234]

Hey, I'm taking D&T for a spinn since I heard my local FNM is legacy this week.

I'll be taking the stock list from the opening post (but with a batterskull as my 61th card)

The meta will have: merfolk, agro loam, burning maverick,, regular maverick, (no) rug, sligh/burn, stupid kid with crappy reanimater (graveborn deck with some mods...), affinnity, and maybe the ichorid/ANT/spiral tide player will be there to.

My question: what do I use for a sideboard?

[Star|Scream]

Hey, I'm taking D&T for a spinn since I heard my local FNM is legacy this week.

I'll be taking the stock list from the opening post (but with a batterskull as my 61th card)

The meta will have: merfolk, agro loam, burning maverick,, regular maverick, (no) rug, sligh/burn, stupid kid with crappy reanimater (graveborn deck with some mods...), affinnity, and maybe the ichorid/ANT/spiral tide player will be there to.

My question: what do I use for a sideboard?

SOFI, Leyline, extra grunts, Wing shards? lulz.

[Curby]

SOFI, Leyline, extra grunts, Wing shards? lulz.

Odd suggestions, given that we already run SoFI and we generally max out on Grunts (though I only have room for the 3 in the main).

I'm assuming overseer is running the updated list with 3 maindeck Thalia. I'd put another in the side. Use Serenity for Affinity, Metamorph for Progenitus and other shrouded fatties, Grafdiggers Cage+other hate for yard decks, CoP: Red for Progenitus/Burn, Ghostly Prison for Dredge/Affinity. Other than that, Finn's list in the OP is still a good guideline.

P.S. Thalia blocks Ichorid all day long. I run the fourth Thalia in the board.

[Star|Scream]

Odd suggestions, given that we already run SoFI and we generally max out on Grunts (though I only have room for the 3 in the main)

Sorry, I haven't paid attention to this thread in a year.

[Fry]

Personally I've had a lot of success with my list lately...

Main:
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Flickerwisp
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Mangara of Corondor
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 AEther Vial
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of LIght and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
9 Plains

Side:

2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Etherswormn Canonist
2 Goldmeadow Harrier
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Phyrexian Revoker

[joemauer]

@fry: What kind of success have you been enjoying? Tearing up your local tourneys?

Also, what do you think are some unfavorable match ups for your deck? Is beating something faster like TES/dredge possible at all?

Just trying to figure out if death and taxes is viable right now, but maybe I shouldn't bother trying with the new one mana mega wrath of god coming.

[Fry]

With all the hate bears in the deck TES isn't as bad as it would seem, you can interact a little with the board state with revokers, and arbiters. Dredge poses a challenge but isn't unbeatable. High Tide is probably the hardest match up we have. The aggro matchup(especially maverick) is rather favorable, still able to lose, but it's in our favor. I went 10-4-1 at GP Indy with a 72nd place finish, and top 16 at Jupiter last weekend.

[joemauer]

With all the hate bears in the deck TES isn't as bad as it would seem, you can interact a little with the board state with revokers, and arbiters. Dredge poses a challenge but isn't unbeatable. High Tide is probably the hardest match up we have. The aggro matchup(especially maverick) is rather favorable, still able to lose, but it's in our favor. I went 10-4-1 at GP Indy with a 72nd place finish, and top 16 at Jupiter last weekend.

Thanks for reply.

What do you think of that non sense called terminus. Think it may become a serious roadblock to this deck?

Stupidest card WotC printed since Mental Misstep I think.

[colo]

I honestly think D&T (along with any other sort of aggro-control without counterspells) will not be viable any more once and as long Terminus is legal. If I think of the UW Landstill lists that I expect to pop up (and how difficult, or rather, actually unwinnable this matchup has been before such bombs as the miracle timewalk and the miracle, quasi-free super-WOG), I can only shudder in disgust.