[Archetype] CounterTop

[Malakai]

I could see playing Terminus in the sideboard. In fact, I like it a lot, although I'd have to actually test it out.

I'm hesitant to try to adapt the new cards before seeing what happens in the metagame, however. For one, it seems like Wastelands are going to be mandatory.

[MJL]

Just thought I should rep my tournament report. I played Counterbalance to an 11th place finish at SCG Phoenix.

http://www.azmagicplayers.com/articl...report-part-1/

http://www.azmagicplayers.com/articl...report-part-2/

http://www.azmagicplayers.com/articl...report-part-3/
I hope you all enjoy them.

[SupREME-10]

Congrats on your placing, and those are well written reports.

Very interesting, I think I am sticking with the U/W version; but yours was interesting for sure.

[DragoFireheart]

Cavern of Souls will kill this deck. I don't think the miracle cards can save it.

[Piceli89]

Cavern of Souls will kill this deck. I don't think the miracle cards can save it.

Cavern of Souls will be played in those decks where Counterbalance was already quite useless.

[DragoFireheart]

Cavern of Souls will be played in those decks where Counterbalance was already quite useless.

Oh I agree, but I'm suggesting that CoS is the final nail in CTs coffin.

[MJL]

I'm not even confident that card is good in any major archetype, except maybe Goblins. Maverick might want to play it, but probably not, it prohibits them from casting turn 2 pridemage or Gaddock Teeg.

[Antonius]

Terminus is OK. This is the real deal from Avacyn:



I was testing it yesterday in a Landstill list then in a Landstill list with CB. This card is ridiculous. Slow blue control deck with no clock can now create a lethal army at your end step. The only way I could describe it is the same feeling I used to get when I cycled DoJ @ EOT with Mirari's Wake out.

AND it has cmc 3. lol.

I would go as far to say that the card is so powerful that it's practically a nuclear option to use against any of CB's bad matchups. CB is useless against Maverick? Well find a way to stall til you can just shit on them with angel tokens. How are they going to beat 16 flying power?

[DragoFireheart]

Terminus is OK. This is the real deal from Avacyn:



I was testing it yesterday in a Landstill list then in a Landstill list with CB. This card is ridiculous. Slow blue control deck with no clock can now create a lethal army at your end step. The only way I could describe it is the same feeling I used to get when I cycled DoJ @ EOT with Mirari's Wake out.

AND it has cmc 3. lol.

I would go as far to say that the card is so powerful that it's practically a nuclear option to use against any of CB's bad matchups. CB is useless against Maverick? Well find a way to stall til you can just shit on them with angel tokens. How are they going to beat 16 flying power?

Hmmm... That is pretty good for countertop, but I'm not sure if it's enough. That card DOES solve some of the issues of this deck being too slow in terms of killing.

[keys]

It's also worth pointing out that you can still hardcast it to make a single 4/4 flyer for 2WWW, which isn't obscene if it happens to get stuck in your hand. None of the other Miracle cards come this close to being playable without the Miracle mechanic.

The card is definitely a new and improved DoJ for CounterTop. Can't wait to play it.

[SupREME-10]

It's also worth pointing out that you can still hardcast it to make a single 4/4 flyer for 2WWW, which isn't obscene if it happens to get stuck in your hand. None of the other Miracle cards come this close to being playable without the Miracle mechanic.

The card is definitely a new and improved DoJ for CounterTop. Can't wait to play it.

I agree with the top part you said, but disagree that other miracle cards have no use... Reforge the Soul will be a draw 7 Engine for Storm decks that are already making insane amounts of mana (to hardcast), draw 7 more, cast into things like Past in Flames, recycle graveyard, build more mana, draw more cards, and then hit you with a lethal Storm Card.... it might bring things like Spanish Inquisition back to the for front, or have Goblin Charbelcher going more R/b, or give TES one more option in it's b/r version. I would watch Reforge the Soul closely.

[Antonius]

I believe that the future of CBtop might look like this:

4 Delta
4 Strand
2 Flats
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

2 EE

4 Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Pierce
1 Snare
4 Swords

4 Snapcaster
2 Counterspell
4 Counterbalance

2 Dismember
3 Entreat the Angels

2 Jace

3 Force of Will

SB (in development):
1 Academy Ruins
1 Crucible
1 EE
1 Intuition
3 Extirpate
2 Hydroblast
2 Seal of Cleansing
4 ??

Props to MJL; I based my design off of his list. I don't think I met you when I was at SCG: Phoenix but congrats on your top 16 dude.

I've done a lot of testing against Maverick and the matchup is very winnable. 50% maybe better. A lot of games just take the path of tons of removal >> Angel tokens. Entreat the Angels allows you piss upon them from great height and they can't really do anything about it. On the flipside, you still lose a lot of games to thalia and the low mana draw.

[MJL]

We might have crossed paths. I was the blond dude hanging out with Team Abong and Lowell Thompson.

My new list actually looks pretty similar, although I'm not bold enough to play three entreat the angels. I also think Terminus has a place, its at least as good as the Wrath I main decked.

[Antonius]

^^ I played against Lowell both days. Storm mirrors. Both match ups were really funny. Anyway, I started with a miracle set like this:

1 Personal Tutor
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Terminus

But after a while, i started to feel as though the Terminus was unnecessary because I had so much removal between Snapcaster/Swords/Dismember. So after cutting it, cutting Personal Tutor for another Entreat seemed sensible.

I should add that I went a few other places before deciding on Esper. I tried Bant, with Bant Charm sitting in at the dismember slots and Patriot with Fire/Ice taking the place of Main Deck EE and Firespout in for the Dismembers. EE seems like the most flexible way to two-for-one maverick and remove Mongeese. That and Sideboard options is the reason why I settled on Esper in the end.

[Malakai]

I would rather cast Stoneforge Mystic against any deck than I would Entreat the Angels.

Whether it will be time to finally hang up my Counterbalances remains to be seen; we have to wait to see what the meta does.

[MJL]

I think I like Terminus better against Maverick than E.E. It's also pretty sweet against the Zombies deck that has been popping up recently.
Stoneforge Mystic has been repeatedly proven to a poor choice for Counterbalance, it takess up a ton of slots, and Squires just tend to die right now. So your either fetching Batterskull and not getting to play it, getting it Pride-Maged or Ancient Grudged, or your fetching a Sword in a deck that doesn't want to be aggressive and has relatively few creatures.
Also you just have better things to do on Turn 2 than give your opponents dead Swords something to target.
The format is hostile to SFM, why would you want to play it through hate when there are other options.

[Antonius]

I would rather cast Stoneforge Mystic against any deck than I would Entreat the Angels.

Whether it will be time to finally hang up my Counterbalances remains to be seen; we have to wait to see what the meta does.

lets see
SFM: 2WW and two turns for a 1/2 squire and a 4/4 vigilance lifelink

Angels: 2WW (potentially at their end step) for two 4/4 fliers.

You tell me what's better.

[Malakai]

lets see
SFM: 2WW and two turns for a 1/2 squire and a 4/4 vigilance lifelink

Angels: 2WW (potentially at their end step) for two 4/4 fliers.

You tell me what's better.

I already did.

---------------------

MJL's points have merit, but running a bad hybrid of DoJ and White Sun's Zenith is not the answer.

[MJL]

I consider Terminus an almost strict upgrade to Wrath of God, a card most of the successful Counterbalance decks are running. Entreat the Angels is so much more powerful than White Sun Zenith, that the charectization is sort of silly. It's faster, the tokens block Delver and Mongoose, they can't be bolted down etc. Some decks are running Lingering Souls, I'd rather have 3 4/4 fliers than 4 1/1 fliers and it only scales better from there.
I'm not sure that playing Entreat the Angels is correct, i feel like your arguing in hyperbole isn't the best way to find the answer, which is what were all looking to do right?

[Maëlig]

I believe that the future of CBtop might look like this:
list

Seems solid, I'm testing a pretty similar list at the moment :

4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
2 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
2 Wasteland

4 Brainstorm
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Counterspell
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Force of Will
2 Terminus

1 Engineered Explosives
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
1 Oblivion Ring

3 Entreat the Angels
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard:

1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Path to Exile
1 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Cursed Totem
2 Disenchant
1 Aura of Silence
1 Force of Will
1 Terminus


Both terminus and (especially) entreat have been very good from my (admitedly limited) testing. Droping angels on the board eot with top is just bonkers. The only downside is that it makes us even more reliant on brainstorm, top and jace. It's not great opening hands with terminus, entreat and no BS.