All B/R update speculation.

[wizard_of_gore]

tacosnape, if you desperately hate show and tell, then move on decks that beats it. Play pox, gate or something similar, or play death and taxes and bant. Bant has all thing to combat show and tell - fast clock, daze, fow, vendililion clique, jace, KOTR+karakas (and wasteland)...

[rxavage]

Cursed Totem deals with Griselbrand's ability. It doesn't deal with the fact that now there's a 7/7 Flappy Lifestealy demon bonking you on the head. It also doesn't do anything against Emrakul, The Aeons Torn. The only single card I know of that just flat out deals with any guy a SnT can put down is Humility, and it's starting to live in my UW Miracle sideboard just for this reason.



They ARE Show and Tell. You illustrate my point perfectly!

I meant cursed totem is effective against more decks than S&T. And I was suggesting it because of the draw7 complaint not the 7/7 flying lifelinking beatdown that everyone is seeming to overlook or maybe Emmy just overshadows him in that department
but its still a 14 life-point swing compared to 15 and the annihilator 6.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

tacosnape, if you desperately hate show and tell, then move on decks that beats it. Play pox, gate or something similar, or play death and taxes and bant. Bant has all thing to combat show and tell - fast clock, daze, fow, vendililion clique, jace, KOTR+karakas (and wasteland)...

Hold up, are you saying I may need to change what deck I play because the meta game shifted? That's bullshit, there shouldn't even be a meta game. I should be able to play the same deck for 15+ years. THIS IS LEGACY!!!!


/s

[Darkenslight]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Delver of Secrets is going to be banned somewhere in the next announcement.

[wizard_of_gore]

@tooclosetothesun
Well, some decks are autoloss against some decks, some decks are auto win against those decks. THIS IS LEGACY!!! It's your problem if you have your pet deck and force him to beat all alive.... :P

I have a sneaking suspicion that Delver of Secrets is going to be banned somewhere in the next announcement.

is this some kind of joke? :/

[joemauer]

tacosnape, if you desperately hate show and tell, then move on decks that beats it. Play pox, gate or something similar, or play death and taxes and bant. Bant has all thing to combat show and tell - fast clock, daze, fow, vendililion clique, jace, KOTR+karakas (and wasteland)...

Firstly pox and the gate seem like horrible decks to play against show and tell, especially when they board in Leyline of Sanctity.

I think the people on these boards have not play tested much or at all against/with Show and Tell decks. Everyone keeps suggesting to play decks that lose to show and tell against Show and Tell decks?!?

Finally, I don't believe Tacosnape desperately hates Show and Tell. He was simply pointing out how limited the ways to deal with the combo are and how degenerate the deck is. I personally think the card Show and Tell may have finally reached it's broken potential that everyone seen on the horizon. However, it is too early to cry ban since the card hasn't really dominated anything yet, which could be because of the amount of RUG or people haven't brought Show and Tell in droves to tourneys yet. Still too early nevertheless.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

Firstly pox and the gate seem like horrible decks to play against show and tell, especially when they board in Leyline of Sanctity.

I think the people on these boards have not play tested much or at all against/with Show and Tell decks. Everyone keeps suggesting to play decks that lose to show and tell against Show and Tell decks?!?

Finally, I don't believe Tacosnape desperately hates Show and Tell. He was simply pointing out how limited the ways to deal with the combo are and how degenerate the deck is. I personally think the card Show and Tell may have finally reached it's broken potential that everyone seen on the horizon. However, it is too early to cry ban since the card hasn't really dominated anything yet, which could be because of the amount of RUG or people haven't brought Show and Tell in droves to tourneys yet. Still too early nevertheless.

I played Dream Halls in Madison and that deck is far from unstoppable, It's good but not unstoppable. Sneak and Show seems a lot better with Griselbrand but still beatable. I mean a bad show and tell against Maverick and they can blow you out. I also think humility/ensnaring bridge can be huge problems especially in a counter-top/thopters shell. RUG also has game against it, the versions with spell pierce anyway.

[Darkenslight]

is this some kind of joke? :/

No, sadly. It's a strong card, and it's probably not going to be banned in Legacy, but I just have this niggling suspicion about it.

[Feraralive]

thanks, you right have nice day :)

[Julian23]

I used to know these kind of things but when is the next B/R update due to? Around 20thish June, I guess?

[whienot]

Correct. June 20th. Though, I'm fairly certain nothing will be getting the hammer.

[Telperion]

I don't see anything changing. Maverick and RUG are still top 8ing consistently and stoneblade is evolving with its new toys. I agree that Griselbrand is definitely the new standard for cheaty permanents, but its not like were seeing 6 Griselbrand decks in every top 8. Where do we draw the line with combo being healthy? Two in the top 8? What if they played against zoo 4 times in swiss? The post Avacyn metagame is still young.

As for the panic about Show and Tell: With maindeck Teeg and Thalia, storm's easier matchups have vanished, so people are reacting to the metagame. I think we have all been on the other side of first turn Emrakul once in a while and it feels disgusting, but it is hardly flash. Sometimes, your opponent just puts a knight in and you enabled your opponents win. All of the Show and Tell decks have their own weaknesses. The fact of the matter is these decks probably have more raw power but are also much less consistent for it. Wasteland and Surgical have never been more effective. It's awesome drawing multiple City of Traitors/emrakuls/Confluxes/Pacts while you're opponent consistently develops a board. The fact of the matter is there are more ways to interact with combo than counter magic.

Thoughtseize, Innocent blood, Liliana, Stifle, Phyreixan Revoker, Pithing Needle, ensnaring bridge, and humility are all criminally underplayed right now. Furthermore Cavern Goblins does a fair job racing all the the Show and Tell decks, and is quite favorable post board. I am not yet sure whether Griselbrand is strictly more oppressive than Jin-Gitaxias, but I consider it a good thing that flipping a delver or resolving a knight doesn't win every game in Legacy. I think there is a lot of room for Goblins, Elves, BUG, Grixis Tempo etc in the current metagame, and any banning would be extremely premature.

[edgewalker]

No, sadly. It's a strong card, and it's probably not going to be banned in Legacy, but I just have this niggling suspicion about it.

Ha, you said niggling...that's gotta come from something racist

[Zilla]

Ha, you said niggling...that's gotta come from something racist

It's actually based on an old word of Scandinavian origin. Scandinavian. Definitely racist.

[nedleeds]

The deck only works with 4 brainstorm ... same with Show and Tell ...

Brainstorm goes 12 for 16 at this past weekends SCG. Fueling Sneak and Show ... honestly Sneak and Show would have placed more if more people could have gotten a hold of those cards (many vendors are sold out).

[Koby]

Brainstorm goes 12 for 16 at this past weekends SCG. Fueling Sneak and Show ... honestly Sneak and Show would have placed more if more people could have gotten a hold of those cards (many vendors are sold out).

Yes, and it's a deck choke full of $30-$60 rares. Woo Money!!

Deck does unfair things, but my friend made a good point when I started to cry wolf. The top 3 decks are still placing better than Sneak Show right now, and as far as "unfair decks" go, Sneak Show is still about creatures. It's not as though we're talking about Hive Mind or TES right now. The deck also has some issues with the land Karakas.

[Honoluluicecaps]

Its important to note that Taco brought up a good point regarding Show and Tell that hasn't really been addressed: the restrictions that the prominence of a deck like Sneak and Show places on the format. Saying that the deck is beatable (in general) doesn't really address the point; its existence in the format hinders the number of playable decks, because you can't really play a deck that beats both it and RUG delver (the most popular deck) consistently (50+% of the time) unless you're playing something like Dredge. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it has shown itself to be relatively true over the last few months.

Furthermore, I would argue that Griselbrand makes Sneak and Show even better, and despite some people advocating Dream Halls as a new standard in combo decks, Reanimator has basically stopped making showings... arguably because Sneak and Show just uses Griselbrand better. In general I'm not one to advocate for the banning of cards, I find that for the most part the format has a way of working itself out. But I also believe that cards like Griselbrand are going to allow Sneak and Show to surpass OTHER Show and Tell decks (i.e. Dream Halls, Hive Mind, even reanimator), and the only way to reliably counter it is by playing RUG Delver. The question becomes, is such a format healthy?

[DragoFireheart]

I have question for you all:

Out of this top 16, 12 had brainstorm:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8320

Do you feel that, with the current card collection and the current meta, that Brainstorm is too powerful for the Legacy format?

Should Brainstorm be banned?

Would Brainstorm actually get banned if considered?

[Koby]

Do you feel that, with the current card collection and the current meta, that Brainstorm is too powerful for the Legacy format?

Should Brainstorm be banned?

Would Brainstorm actually get banned if considered?

No.

Show and Tell is on my watch list for potential to explode. I highly doubt Griselbrand will get axed.

[Arianrhod]

The awkward thing about Sneak and Show is that I'm not sure what card would//what card should get banned in the event something needed to be done. Show and Tell is arguably the most "fair" of the enablers for the deck, because the fatty being put into play doesn't have haste. It allows for the problem creature to be solved either through removal of some sort, Karakas, Jace, O-Ring, etc. Obviously this isn't the case for Dream Halls or Hive Mind, and Wizards has shown a willingness in the past to do away with multiple decks that fall under the same archetype (looking at you, Survival). Sneak Attack is much more obnoxious, because if the creature gets Karakas'd, you can just put it back out again...after drawing with Griselbrand. At the same time, Sneak Attack can be "solved" with Pithing Needle (not that there aren't obviously counter-outs to that). Through the Breach is now seeing play in sideboards as well, as another enabler for post-board when one of the other options is being hated out. If you ban Emrakul, then not only does that invalidate a whole swath of decks that I wouldn't be broken up about seeing go, but it also just means that Sneak/Show is going to go to a different stupid monster configuration....probably Grisel/Prog. Sneak Attack and Show and Tell (also Breach) are both cards that are like Survival. If they aren't broken yet, sooner or later they will be.

I'm also not a fan of the idea of banning things, but I feel that psychology might have room in this one. Like Caleb said in his last article, SneakShow is a horrible deck to play against. If you win, it's because your opponent hasn't done anything but durdled. If you lose, you feel cheated because it's just such a miserably cheap win condition. I know that personally I would much rather lose to a storm deck which at least is interesting to watch and can be packed with a lot of subtle and interesting interactions as opposed to getting rocket punched by a hasty Emrakul. Show and Tell has been on the chopping block before, I know, but I -think- that Sneak Attack would probably be the better solution. While the meta might adapt, I think that we can all agree that this is going to get much, much worse before it gets better, either through bannings or meta shifts.

And to everyone talking about Brainstorm, shut up already. Wizards just stated not too long ago (sometime over the winter) that they had no intention of banning Brainstorm. They aren't stupid -- the restricting of Brainstorm in vintage literally killed the format, and barring conspiracy theories regarding modern, I highly doubt that they will make the same mistake twice. At least in America, legacy EXISTS because of Brainstorm.