Thank you - I made an edit above.Originally Posted by dsck
Top8ed a legacy tournament at DHG today with Maverick (Bant Splash). After losing to RUG delver 3 times, which I previously thought was unlosable, I have made a few changes to my deck. Here is my current list:
1 Aven Mindcensor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Tarmogoyf
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Path to Exile
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sylvan Library
2 Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Savannah
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Tropical Island
1 Plains
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
Here are some comments I have about my old list and new list:
1. Linvala was actually pretty underwhelming and never came in against any of my matchups. I would be good against elves, but path/swords is probably enough to beat them. Also, they have the beat-down plan so you arent winning if they have time to set up elvish archdruid. I am cutting her for a 3rd path to exile, which is no-drawback swords against RUG delver and does the same thing in the mirror.
2. I am going to try a 1-of tarmogoyf. Against combo he puts on a faster clock, its either going to be tarmogoyf or a 3rd ooze. Against RUG delver he stops mongoose, and if they have no/one card in hand, he stops tarmogoyf as well.
3. Aven Mindcensor is fairly underwhelming, and should definitely not be a 2-of. 1-of was fine for me, as it was not very relevant, but 2-of is just bad.
4. Thalia is not very good against RUG. While she slows down their cantrips and spells, she cant trade with anything, so it doesnt make sense to keep her in. I also wouldnt recommend siding in Chokes on the draw, as RUG delver is usually ahead by then.
Anyways, let me know your guys thoughts on this. I'm hoping to make some final tweaks to my deck to prepare it for SCG worcester. If anyone has questions regarding the blue splash, just know that I was 2-0 against Sneak and Show today, just by threatening blue/having spell pierce.
I think Linvala is more valuable than a Path to Exile in the mirror. Path to Exile obviously has much wider application though. Also, I could agree with taking out Thalia against RUG if you expect they're on Sulfur Elemental. If you're expecting more pointed removal or Pyroclasm effects I think Thalia's worth keeping in.
Decided to play Maverick at a $500 store credit tournament today. I usually play combo but I thought I'd surprise people (plus I've been running pretty bad lately)
Rd 1: bye
Rd 2: loss to Sneak show
Rd 3: lose to sneak show AGAIN (the only 2 players out of the whole room of 30)
at this point I figured I'm probably not going to top 8, but what the heck.
Rd 4: win against aluren (yes this deck still exists!)
Rd 5: win vs bant maverick (Linvala is MVP)
Rd 6: win vs NO RUG (feels good to beat a proggy on board)
4-2, ended up 9th :(
Basically, I did not dedicate any specific hate for S&S (i.e. no revoker, needle), and used good old hatebears instead.
The matchup, although slightly unfavourable (0-2 hurts though), is by no means unwinnable, so I really wouldn't see myself dedicating more than 2 or so slots. I also misplayed a bit, since I've never played a single game with Maverick till round 2 (which is my first time playing against S&S too).
This reminds me when I played Junk... and got paired against 2 43 land decks. I just run so bad at magic when it comes to matchups (lol).
WHat do you think of Guilded Drake againt Show and Tell deck?
Hey all, I'm pretty new to Maverick and I just want to ask what do you guys think is the correct play in this situation:
Preboard, Turn 2 (on the draw), my turn:
Opp's board: Tapped Flipped Delver, Volcanic Island, Scalding Tarn
My board: Forest, Dryad Arbor
My hand: Windswept Heath, Sylvan Library, Knight of the Reliquary, GSZ, Qasali Pridemage, Thalia
My GY: Misty Rainforest
We should have a known Instant/Sorcery in hand off the Delver flip that could dictate line of play, but w/o that information...
I think the presented pressure of a flipped Delver is pretty noteworthy. If they lead a Nimble or fail to blind flip a Delver I would tend to play more conservatively, but realistically you're facing 4 turns to swing board state. Honestly this is a bad place to be with Maverick, there's a good chance they have Daze or FoW up, and with 2 mana available they have free reign to Stifle your next fetch and still interact with your play.
I'd play/crack Windswept Heath. If allowed to fetch I'd either aggressively pull Savannah for it's better interaction with a potential GSZ'd Scryb or alternatively Plains if trying to solidify up against Wasteland. Regardless with my, I'd jam Knight of the Reliquary. It maybe gets Dazed or FoW'd but those spells are going to counter something. We have 2x Fetches in the 'yard at this point so Knight's in the clear vs Bolt effects. If they have the FoW or Daze the following turn's line of play should probably be GSZ for Scryb Ranger, return Savannah, untap Dryad Arbor, replay and push Thalia. With the Plains I'd probably GSZ for Scryb if I didn't hit the land or push QPM then Thalia if I hit the 4th mana source.
If they've countered the Knight they've likely pitched a conditional counter to FoW (Pierce or Snare so they've got less game against GSZ and Thalia respectively) or they've Dazed they're back a land drop that makes Thalia's Sphere effect even better. If the Heath is Stifled I would push Thalia and follow up with Pridemage most likely the following turn.
I guess I can address the cards I'd hold back and the reasoning. Namely Sylvan Library and Green Sun's Zenith. I'd hold Sylvan back because it does not apply pressure to race Delver and your lack of board presence leaves you in no position to be using the -4: draw. There's definitely some good potential dig to be had, ie if you drop the Heath and can get the Library down w/o a crack you can dig the top 3 for a Plow and potentially fetch to get a shuffle and dig a different 3 the following turn. While this plays around Daze and helps find the answer to Delver. I don't think it's a winning proposition to try to out dig Delver, they have 8+ cantrips and w/o Thalia down should have less issue finding the FoW or Spell Pierce than Maverick does finding the Swords to Plowshares. I'd hold the GSZ back at least a turn, Knight presents better ability to race than rushing out GSZ into Scryb Ranger. I'd lean towards the Savannah pull, because I like having the Ranger + Thalia follow up though to at least buy some time.
Again if the Delver flipped off anything other than a cantrip it could have a big impact on line of play.
IDK, that would be my line of thinking/play given the knowns.
hey guys, new to the forum but wanted to make a quick post. played in the scg open today with the fauna shaman version of the deck. made top 16 with the deck. the unlikely mvp for me today was the maindeck peacekeeper. it allowed me to get past several show and tell matchups and a belcher's empty the warrens. Definitely a metagame call and I can completely understand if some believe it is completely aweful to maindeck, but it paid off today. did not take long
Round 1 Game 1 (i win die roll)
me: turn 1 noble
opp: island preordain
me: turn 2 fauna shaman
opp: ponder fetch volcanic preordain
me: turn 3 pass with 3 open mana
opp: comments that i should have just played mindcensor on my turn when he is tapped out.
opp: turn 3 show and tell, me response fetch peace keeper, opponent goes on tilt
Last edited by legend88; 06-04-2012 at 09:35 AM.
Hahaha! Love it! Good meta call :)
This made my day. Use every opportunity to tilt hurpy-durpy opponents!
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well, if fetch is allowed, I would land thalia for sure and play around daze as long as possible. Especially with thalia on board he can only kill it next turn, if he has no spell snare or force, forcing thalia is even better, since we can land knight later if we draw another land even with playing around daze.We should have a known Instant/Sorcery in hand off the Delver flip that could dictate line of play, but w/o that information...
I think the presented pressure of a flipped Delver is pretty noteworthy. If they lead a Nimble or fail to blind flip a Delver I would tend to play more conservatively, but realistically you're facing 4 turns to swing board state. Honestly this is a bad place to be with Maverick, there's a good chance they have Daze or FoW up, and with 2 mana available they have free reign to Stifle your next fetch and still interact with your play.
I'd play/crack Windswept Heath. If allowed to fetch I'd either aggressively pull Savannah for it's better interaction with a potential GSZ'd Scryb or alternatively Plains if trying to solidify up against Wasteland. Regardless with my
playing into daze when you are not really pressed hard is just wrong, a flipped delver with still 17 life points is not that bad. Since a Knight on board is kind of a win, you need to do everything possible to resolver it. If you can evade daze DO IT or if you have time left, WAIT for it.
Had a pretty good run yesterday at the SCG Open in Columbus. Finished 9th, .8xx of a percentage point on breakers. Started out 0-1-1 and railed of 7 straight wins for a shot at top 8 and just missed. And for the record it was a phyrexian revoker, not metamorph in my sb. Was very happy with the deck all day.
This depends on several factors we don't know:
1. What your opponent's holding off the flipped Delver.
2. What your life total is (I assume 16 or 17)
3. How many lands are in your graveyard (IE, whether you fetched the first forest or not)
4. Are you maindecking Maze of Ith? (You should be)
5. How many cards are in your opponent's hand?
The primary points to this situation are as follows:
1. From this board position, you aren't going to outrace this Delver. Not against a deck full of burn and sneaky counters.
2. Therefore, you've got to do everything you can to STOP this Delver.
Three cards in your hand could let you stop Delver: Knight of the Reliquary (If you have the Maze, like you should), Sylvan Library (If it digs you into Swords to Plowshares or a Jitte), and Green Sun's Zenith for either Knight or Scryb Ranger, which is a last ditch choice because it won't actually kill the Delver and dies to burn.
It's also worth noting you don't have a fourth or fifth mana source. Which means if he's got a Stifle and a Daze or two, you're just dead. Period.
So assuming he got a non-counter off the Delver, and assuming I'm running Maze, I'd probably play my fetchland and not crack it, then lead with the Sylvan. If he has a counter off the Delver, I think I'd lead with Thalia and make him spend something getting rid of it.
Either way, if you don't draw a land or STP next turn, you're hurting.
Ooops, sorry for the incomplete information. Missed quite a few details. Anyways, awesome responses guys - learning quite a lot.
My MD is nearly the same as conley1000000's, 3 card difference:
-1 Linvala
-1 Qasali PM
-1 Cavern of Souls
+2 Aven Mindcensor
+1 Sylvan Safekeeper
Here's a better description:
Opp T1:
Volcanic Island, Delver
My T1:
Opening hand: Windswept Heath, Misty Rainforest, Knight of the Reliquary, GSZ, GSZ, Thalia, Sylvan Library; drew QPM
Fetch Forest, GSZ to Dryad Arbor
Opp T2:
Blind flip Delver with Thought Scour, Scalding Tarn (5 cards in hand). Attack with Delver.
My T2 (now at 16 life):
Drew 2nd QPM; Main phase
What I did was to try and fetch for a Plains - if it goes through, cast Thalia; if not, play the Library instead. No Stifle so Thalia gets in but on his turn - Forked Bolt. Ouch. Never drew Swords, but eventually I was able to stabilize a bit with an Active Knight when I was down to 4. Unfortunately on the next few turns he cantripped his way to burn and was able to finish me before my creatures ran him over.
There was an article on SCG a few weeks ago stating that maverick should make some changes for the current meta by trying to include Armageddon.. I'd like everyone's thoughts on if this. Would it be a valid addition to Mavrick to improve any of our bad matchups? If so, in what way.. and also what would we cut?
I have seen the occasional Gideon Jura pop up in a few lists' sideboards and I'd like to understand the reasoning behind this. In what matchups would you bring him in?
For me his main purpose was to come in for the Maverick mirror. He also works as a catch-all for the random creature decks you can face i.e. elves, goblins, affinity(my round 4 match) to just help get reset after the super fast starts they can sometimes have. It definetly looks akward with Thalia, but usually she comes out and he comes in.
I haven't tested armageddon, but it seems like Thalia/wasteland combined do a fantastic job holding opponents off a high output of mana. I run choke sb for the control decks who would want alot of mana available and it seemed to do the trick quite well.
Armageddon is a very powerful card. If you play it when you are ahead you will almost always win. However, if you play it and you don't find any mana, you have set yourself so far behind that a topdecked terminus will just lose you the game. You are running 22-24 lands plus Noble Hierarchs and I know there have been times where I have been manascrewed even with that much mana.
You also have to recognize that with a Thalia in play that you have to pay 5 to cast it and once you cast it your GSZ still costs one more. So when you plan to armageddon you are typically losing 4 lands (assuming you have a Hierarch in play) and you have done so on turn 4 or 5. I think this is too late against most decks right now. RUG Delver can out tempo you and it only needs 1-3 lands to play their deck efficiently and Sneak and Show plays sol lands to counteract the Thalia and still Show and Tell on turn 3 or Sneak Attack on turn 4.
I think armageddon is could be very good right now but it would require you to build the deck completely different in order to come out ahead after you armageddon. Maybe this requires adding a few Mox Diamonds or Chrome Moxes to the list or even Flagstones. I don't know but I think it has potential.
For all who are sceptical about Armageddon, I would like to add an alternative: Tangle Wire.
For the first two turns it does about the same, but your own recovery is easier and it costs a mana less.
Against control, Tangle Wire is a lot less strong than Armageddon, because it only works a couple of turns, and it doesn't shut down all mana sources, just a few. But, against Show&tell and Storm it's quicker and shuts them down for a few turns, giving you just enough time to either kill them or set up a line of hatebears.
Against RUG Delver it's also playable. Wire gives you the initiative, and that alone can turn a match around in which he opened a t2: flip Delver (something Mav typically has issues with).
I'd test this before I'd test Geddon.
Gideon is mainly for the mirror (gets Mom's to attack or tap and causes blocking shortages allowing for alpha strike). Gideon's -2 ability can also act like a 5th swords effect, especially on the turn Gideon comes into play. conley1000000, interesting note about the random creature decks. I guess Gideon acts as a 1-turn fog effect and allows you to selectively block.
Armageddon - there is a lot of Spell Pierce running around. I'm wary because paying 6 for Armageddon is impractical. It's probably best to run Life from the Loam and Wastelands (or Ghost Quarter if you really wanted to get tricky). I haven't read the SCG article, but I have seen at least one recent Maverick sideboard with Armageddon in it. Personally, I think it's more suited for white stax or another control deck. You don't necessarily want to play long games with Maverick, it's preferable to stabilize and get in a few swings for a mid-game (turn 6-9) win.
Tangle Wire probably belongs in another deck (MUD or a blue deck), but it is a nice card. As Asthereal mentions, it shines vs. Tempo decks that have few permanents in play. Additionally, Tangle Wire counts as a permanent itself, so you always have to tap 2 fewer permanents than your opponent (you place Tangle Wire's tap trigger on the stack, followed by Tangle Wire's remove 1 counter trigger, so you remove a counter before you tap (1 less permanent tapped than your opponent) and you can tap the Tangle Wire). I built a blue deck that attempted Tangle Wire / Esperzoa locks, and it worked when both pieces were found, but it could be inconsistent.
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