Thanks, also I just re-read Jamiew89's post and he actually addresses that question. Just having problems in play testing with UBr ANT vs DDFT vs hybrid. Going off with adN is sweet and easier but not always reliable especially with hate or when decks like TA disrupt me and shred my hand then I just draw mana sources. DD seems like it has more threats and recovers easier from disruption with DD and tops but I cant always hit lethal with it. Effing frustrating.
The metagame shift to maxing out on spell pierce and vendilion clique seeing increased play is really miserable for Ad Nauseum right now. To be honest, if you have the itch to play combo right now, Hive Mind and High Tide are better positioned. Perhaps if Griselbrand and/or SnT get banned on Wednesday, ANT will become better positioned again.
High tide is not so good vs. sneak/show (misdirection is pretty amazing versus turnabout), they are also about half a turn faster and emrakul blowing up all of your permanents is pretty miserable, especially since you want them to produce a bunch of mana down the road. and reanimator is just a little bit faster, and definitely do not care about their life total. as they are about a full turn faster than tide. i would personally suggest TES at the current moment, as you can actually race reanimator and griselbrand. we shall see what wednesday brings. until then just wait.Originally Posted by Telperion
Made top 4 out of 30 or so people with ANT In Flames at Mythic Games Saturday.
Rd 1-Lotus Cobra dot deck (W2-0)
Rd 2-Nic fit (W2-0)
Rd 3-Merfolk (It was ether 2-0 or 2-1 ether way I won)
Rd 4-Mavrick (W2-0)
Rd 5-Burn (ID to go get food)
Quarterfinals-White Black Stone blade(W2-1)
Semifinals-The bane of Combos Existence,MUD (L1-2)
My list for refrence
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Brainstorm
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Ponder
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Burning Wish
3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames -MVP
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond -MVP
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction -Never had to use them.
2 Echoing Truth - I chose to play them over 2 Chain of Vapor because of L.O.T.S.
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Deathmark
1 Past in Flames -Never had to use it.
1 Cabal therapy
1 Infest - Infest was good to me,it killed two Lotus Cobras where Virtue's Ruin wouldn't have.
1 Ill-Gotten Gains - Never had to use it.
1 Meltdown -Meltdown wasn't that good against MUD,There was just to man y prison artifacts out after Wastelanding me and i couldn't Meltdown for enough.
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grim Tutor -MVP
Last edited by MTG Junkie; 06-20-2012 at 04:30 PM.
V Clique and Spell Pierce aren't too hard to play around - it's Counterbalance seeing play and Reanimator being a reasonable meta choice that concerns me for ANT.
If your opponent is playing V Clique, just play as you would against any discard - keep your strong cards on top of your deck and be very conservative with your brainstorms...and for spell pierce...spell pierce has been pretty damn common as a 4x between main and SB since it was printed, so...continue playing around it like always?
I have been playing UBr ANT with 4 IT/3 BW main and I have been wanting a tutor in the board but there is no way im gonna pay the price of grim tutor. Anyway ive been looking for alternatives that dont require hellbent (and because I want 4 IT main) and I was wondering what you guys thought of beseech the queen? Ya its kinda crappy main but I was thinking as a wish target we should likely have BBB making it comparable to grim tutor. Thoughts? Alternatives?
Beseech the Queen has a converted mana cost of 6. You don't want to see that in a deck running Ad Nauseam.
EDIT: sry, just saw it was a BW target. Ignore this useless post.
Flip your IT/ BW count, stick the 4th IT in the board. it's actually awesome and good.
It's a BW target. good job reading.
No problem and your right the cmc and the alternate cost would suck main but maybe not as much as BW target.Beseech the Queen has a converted mana cost of 6. You don't want to see that in a deck running Ad Nauseam.
EDIT: sry, just saw it was a BW target. Ignore this useless post.
I like this plan although I currently own only 3 BW but thats no biggy to find a 4th. Does this hurt the AdN plan much though?Flip your IT/ BW count, stick the 4th IT in the board. it's actually awesome and good.
Personally I like tutoring for 5 cards with my BBB (Doomsday). Obviously this takes more setup and some life, but is a guaranteed win with only BW in hand, which might be what you are looking for.
You can do worse than DD, and i think beseech is somewhat worse. Grim tutor is somewhere between the two. At least with grim you don't have to revel the card and give the opponent info.
Matt Bevenour in real life
This is all true and I agree with you on DD. I originally got into storm combo to play DDFT but after playing against some real opponents with the deck I decided I actually like ANT better.Personally I like tutoring for 5 cards with my BBB (Doomsday). Obviously this takes more setup and some life, but is a guaranteed win with only BW in hand, which might be what you are looking for.
You can do worse than DD, and i think beseech is somewhat worse. Grim tutor is somewhere between the two. At least with grim you don't have to revel the card and give the opponent info.
DD is amazing as an engine and better at navigating hate but my problem is that its even less interactive. This is a trait of combo in general but DD is like divesting yourself from the game while you solve a quantum physicals problem..then kicking their ass afterwards. Just not my style.
not really, I use PiF as my main go to engine, or just chaining tutors, the only time I want a fast AN is against maverick to beat hate bears and you can board in the 4th one there if you really want to (i don't most of the time). also for IT>AN you NEED the LED in hand or on board. Where as burning wish has no restrictions other than red mana. most of the time you can even use IT to fill up on rituals so you can BW>PiF.
my build is a little slower though and I don't really rely on AN, if you want that as your main storm engine play TES.
if anything it makes it better since instead of having to flip IT + led after AN you just BW + red source if you didn't already have an extra laying around.
I find it to be incredible interactive. You can adapt to their disruption in a large number of ways instead of sitting there waiting to top deck some out.
Sure against mono w soldiers combo is not interactive, but against blue or in the face of hate we are forced to interact on some level, right? And DD does that best IMO. Running one in the board is still your best bet.
Beseech is ok, I just really dislike showing them what you plan on getting with it.
Matt Bevenour in real life
I've done a lot of testing with this plan, and I really don't think this is worth it. Infernal Tutor is your second best card maindeck (second to LED) - you want to play four of them, as you want to draw them, and multiples if possible.
As far as Beseech the Queen, it's very awkward, as your most common tutor targets are:
1) Tendrils
2) IGG/PiF
3) Ad Nauseam
And...typically this deck does not reliably have 4 lands in play, and almost never has 5 lands in play. If you can get a Grim Tutor, it's definitely worth running, otherwise something like Rhystic Tutor will work more often than Beseech the Queen.
ThomasDowd- would you mind posting your current list for me?
I guess less interactive might have been too strong a statement and dont get me wrong, I love the concept of doomsday and the skill needed to play it plus the power. Ive just had less positive results then I expected (some fizzles) but mostly the aspect of actually going through the motions of building the pile and winning while my opponent sits in idle, which in normal casual play does matter to me.I find it to be incredible interactive. You can adapt to their disruption in a large number of ways instead of sitting there waiting to top deck some out.
Sure against mono w soldiers combo is not interactive, but against blue or in the face of hate we are forced to interact on some level, right? And DD does that best IMO. Running one in the board is still your best bet.
Beseech is ok, I just really dislike showing them what you plan on getting with it.
I fail to see why ANT is more interactive vs DDFT. Actually they are either equally interactive(im most matchups) or DDFT is more interactive (in matchup vs hatebears.deck(Maverick) ANT wants to be just faster(small interactivity) when DDFT can win through hate).
I suppose problem is time? You spend too much time on building piles? If you play it more, you'll be able to think on opponents turn/be faster. Also in casual environment you can reveal the cards and show your opponent how are you comboing.I guess less interactive might have been too strong a statement and dont get me wrong, I love the concept of doomsday and the skill needed to play it plus the power. Ive just had less positive results then I expected (some fizzles) but mostly the aspect of actually going through the motions of building the pile and winning while my opponent sits in idle, which in normal casual play does matter to me.
Sure. The virtue's ruin should probably be a deathmark, the bounce split can be messed with, I don't know if i would play the meltdown going forward, I want to cut it for something but I'm not sure what. (most likely 3rd extirpate if reanimator is super popular, or the 4th bounce spell)
If you have any questions about card choices just ask.
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Thoughtseize
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
Sideboard:
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Chrome Mox
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Extirpate
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Meltdown
1 Past in Flames
2 Slaughter Pact
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Thoughtseize
1 Virtue's Ruin
I'm curious to here about your experiences with Slaughter Pact.
Kills Thalia for one mana. Kills everything else for zero. Is sweet to flip off AN (which is probably your main plan in that matchup anyway) at any point. Also is storm +1 at that point vs any dude. I love the card. Most of the time I take out a lot of the discard versus maverick and just board in a pile of bounce and the pacts. Drawing a thoughtseize at any point after your opener is miserable on the draw and is not much better on the play, and all of their hate is permanent based. I hate the echoing truth and it should probably be another chain since trying to mise your one out to a chalice on one is miserable (if meltdown is cut).
I have killed many an ethersworn canonist with slaughter pact.
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