i did, i include thrun in my list as 1-off together w/ 2 gsz in the era of UW stoneblades with snapcasters. If this deck will increase in number i will add thrun in my deck again.Originally Posted by Neffy
i'm back piloting again a junk deck, i will test your list in upcoming saturday legacy small event but i made my own modification something like -1 lily, +1 KOTR we will see :) and thanks for posting your mtgo vidz in your youtube channel i watched your matches.
Damion, have you tried the list from a few pages back that had zero moxes 4 birds SFM and GSZ? it was pretty slick IMO and made the equipment plan a lot stronger.
it is qwerrios list...proably -arena +confidants.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I did. I honestly try to play most of the lists that're posted before I comment on them as a whole. I still feel Birds>Mox is a bad idea (at least for me). There are a lot of Forked Bolts in my local area though and that makes them a bit of a liability. Because of that, I didn't stick with the attempt for very long.
ryn ball_2 - Thank you. I'll keep posting them as long as there are people watching. Good luck at your tournament.
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
also have the same feeling, a first turn bird is not that strong than a first turn mox.
you can play your first turn confi/mystic/hymn, which most of the time gives you back you card disadvantage and the mox sticks most of the time, if you do not run deed on your own. :D
bird gives you 3 mana second turn, but most of the time you want to play 2cc drops anyway, if the bird did not die!
is it not the strong 2cc first turn drop why we play mox diamond?
No. We (should) play it for fixing. Using it simply because it Ramps on Turn 1 isn't a realistic purpose as we don't play 4. If we did play 4, we'd have other cards to take advantage of the Mox mana and/or requirements (i.e. Loam). We (should) use it because it allows us to play around things like Wasteland, Price of Progress, Submerge, and Moon Effects.
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
Hi guys
It ended up that the list I posted before wasn't used. Nevertheless that was a very meta-specific list. Tomorrow I'm playing at my local store, and I'm switching back to this:
4 thoughtseize (or some split with inquisition of kozilek, still thinking)
4 hymn to tourach
3 vindicate
1 maelstrom pulse
3 mox diamond
3 sensei's divining top
1 sylvan library
3 dark confidant (i know... still missing the fourth)
4 tarmogoyf
4 knight of the reliquary
4 swords to plowshares
2 liliana of the veil
lands:
4 marsh flats
4 verdant catacombs
4 wasteland
2 bayou
2 scrubland
1 horizon canopy
1 maze of ith
1 karakas
1 bojuka bog
2 swamp
1 forest
1 plains
I'm still deciding options for my sideboard, but since there are many esper lingering souls I'll probably add another pulse, or deed, or even plague.
I'd like t add a stoneforge package in here, but i'd have to remove 5 cards, and I'd like suggestions.
Also, is it a bad idea to use a sejiri steppe (to protect the reliquary)? And what about a single ooze too?
Nice list there somewhat classic junk/dark horizon build which i ran way way back
1) sb against esper lingering, deeds and pulse are straight forward answer, e-plague is just an add-on to fight against it but if you suspect your local meta runs tribal decks add e-plague but if only esper lingering souls are available just a sb of deeds and explosives are good, my suggestion is like 3 pulse, 1 vindicate in your MD game chances are high against them, vindicate is good but the echo effect of pulse is significant even it doesnt hit land :)
2)stoneforge package, hmmm i dont think you will agree to this -4 hymns, -3 mox d, +3 sfm, +2 equipments, +2 IOK or make a 3 thoughtseize 3 IOK split along w/ 3 sfm 2 equipments thats my configuration when i pilot sfm package
3)it is good to protect KOTR w/c is a big threat if not answered/countered i havnt try to insert sejirri steppe, maybe you can test it out :)
4) a single ooze is good along w/ GSZ if your like running sfm package w/ single ooze maybe check damionblack gear's list, atm i dont run sfm due my friends borrowed the package so i'm trying to make this creature list 4 bob 4 KOTR 3 goyf 2 ooze
Today I won a local tournament (in a store that upholds tournaments on wednesdays, tuesdays and fridays), with a slightly different list than I postes (3 seize 1 iok, 2 vindicate and 2 pulse) and sideboard as follows:
2 enlightened tutor
2 pernicious deed
1 engineered plague
1 conversion
1 life from the loam
1 elspeth, knight-errand
1 thrun, the last troll
1 extirpate
1 surgical extraction
1 nihil spellbomb
1 duress
1 inquisition of kozilek
1 pithing needle
It was a small tournament (4 rounds), and i played against a gw, a sneak&show, a bug control and a lands.
Other decks present were a burn, a merfolks, a goblins, an esper stoneblade, and a bw no friends.
Shall I post a more detailed report?
And thanks for all your help and support :)
Yes, please.
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
@Thorondor
Well you see, the point of Birds was to land Arena/Lily/KotR on T2 or any combination of 1 and 2 CMC card without having to discard a card. Rock being a midrange aggro-control deck should be worried about discarding lands for tempo or pseudo-color-stability-thing.
Also, Forked Bolt is not an issue with Birds because there is nothing to Fork aside from dorks and a single Arbor in this deck. Unless you start overextending with Birds, your opponent is getting no value out of his Forks.
Here is my latest Bird Rock list:
Creatures (14)
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
Instant/Sorcery (16)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vindicate
Artifact/Enchantment (8)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Phyrexian Arena
Lands (22)
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
Sideboard (15)
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Gerrard's Verdict
2 Choke
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Kitchen Finks
I took out Lily in favor of more Tops and Arenas because those are the real deal breakers in most fair matchups. I am also back on Vindicate because unlike Pulse, it is useful when you don't want it. Land denial is also a serious plan pre and post board.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
I'm pretty sure if I'm in the situation where I have too much removal, I've been doing my job, not I need to waste it on lands :P
-Matt
sure, that is another big reason.
Any RUG deck, will bolt/fork bold/chain your bird if he can, or maybe even daze it, especially if you played a dual. But a resolved mox diamond will be there for the complete match.
I don't know about birds, but try it out, and keep us posted about the results.
Birds taking a Bolt better than you taking a Bolt.
Question is, do you keep a hand with 2 lands and a Birds vs. two lands a Mox? One's 3 mana potentially, letting you play everything if it sticks, the other isn't.
-Matt
I could easily say: depends on the rest of your cards in hand. :P
Also if you are on the draw or on the play. Anyway having e.g. 1 confi, 1 mystic, 1 1cc discard and 1 maelstrom pulse, I gladly keep it with mox diamond. Only if I am stuck with mass 3cc spells e.g. 2 maelstrom, 1 lili, 1 knight, I would take a mulligan.
My experience with Mox Diamond is that the mana base is stable enough, sometimes you might get stuck on 2-3 lands, but most of the time the speed bonus you get makes it up for you.
Due to requests (or at least one kkk) I'm reporting my last tournament.
The complete list of decks that were playing:
1 merfolks
1 goblins
1 dredge
2 esper blades
1 burn
1 sneak & show
1 bug control
1 gw
1 boros (rogue)
1 no friends (bw sinkhole/braids/the abyss shenanigans - who still plays this?!?!?!?)
1 BGW Junk (me!!)
1 lands
Round 1 - GW
I win the roll and start on play (he mulligans to 6 and keep without even looking). I open with 2 lands, a waste, a stp, a bob, a goyf and a top, if I remember. I play my land, he plays a fetch and passes (rather strange), i draw, cast my bob, and he casts a gut shot (!!!!) in the end of my turn. he casts then a gaddock. I remove him, cast my goyf and start punishing, cracking his savvanah, plowsharing his stoneforge, and hymnning him. he scoops.
1-0
on g2 he starts with zenith for dryad. I cast seize, and see 2 mother of runes, 1 reliquary, and removal. he draws a lot of threats wich i cant answer in time and wins the match
1-1
side: -3 mox, -1 library, + 2 deed, + 2 tutors
I didnt side for g2, i was waiting to see what he would bring. I decided I needed more deeds than mana fixing, and I was on play.
I start with a top, then a bob wich is plowshared. On his turn 3 he resolves a crucible and I resolve my deed. He wastelanded me, but I topdecked a land, bursted his board (also included a dryad).
then I cast a reiquary followed by a goyf next turn. He scoops.
2-1
Round 2 Sneak & Show
That player usually pilots a reanimator (main reason for me including the karakas and bojuka bog main deck). After I win the roll and start on with a mox and a Toughtseize, I realized he was playing sneak & show. he had an ancient tomb, a volcanic island, a griselband, 2 brainstorms and a ponder. Since there was no real business, I discard the ponder, ony thing that he may use to shuffle his deck right now, play a wasteland (I started with the mox) and passed.
He plays the volcanic, waste, he answers with a brainstorm, etc. I resolve a goyf, and start punishing him. He simply didnt find ANYTHING on g1.
on g2, he plays a fetch, I play mana, mox, bob wich is countered. he plays another land and passes
I resolve a goyf and he shows and tells for sneak attack, but he didnt have another red mana left to use it. I put reliquary on the board, and on my turn I pulse sneak attack and hit with goyf.
He plays another sneak attack, but he didnt have enough threats, i had reliquary to fetch the karakas etc..... he puts emrakul down to attempt a block (and to lure me to fetch and tap the kakarask on my turn) but i let my goyf die (at this point I had 2 goyfs and 1 reliquary). he tried that one again, and in the next turn was dealt lethal damage.
2-0
Round 3 BUG Control
I knoew this was goint to be one of the worst matchs. Deed, Jace, Liliana, innocent bloods, disrupts, counters, snapcasters and life from the loam. I was able to answer most of his early threats, like a liliana and a jace, but he resolved a pernicious deed wich was hard to paly around since he also had a lot of removal in his hand. I tried to buy time, but he started biting me with a mishra, and later, a creeping tar pit. This game took too long, and I can't remember it all. But one thing I remember is he almost asking me to concede (my, you're persistent, aren't you) then I realized he was getting out of resources. He started to bounce a reliquary with jace to gain time, andI couldn't find another threat - but a single swing would kill him. eventually, my life ran out due to recursive mishras and the tar pit,
0-1
side: -3 mox, -1 stp, -1 liliana, +1 loam, +1 thrun, + 1 extirpate +1 surgical + 1 spellbomb
game 2 I am on the play, and I wastelocked him with life from the loam (wich he countered twice, but when the spell removed and I got 2 wastelands back he conceeded)
1-1
game 3 was unfinished due to time, but if I played it right I could have won. I had a spellbomb, an extirpate, 3 wastes and 2 lands. I kept, and started wasting him
I should have played the swamp first, to extirpate his undergound seas... instead he played a lot of lands. I wasted tem all, but my spellbomb and extirpate were discarded.
I resolved a thrun, and we had less than 2 minutes. He proposed a draw, but I knew if he didin't answer the thrunn I would win. I find a reliquary, he finds a liliana, and time's out. Knowing that it wouldn't end in 5 turns, we agreed on the draw.
1-1
Match 4: Lands
I was prepared to lose g1, but it didn't happen. He opens with a wooded foothills and I paly mox, thoughtseize and remove his loam. Then I play my bojuka bog and pass (if I didin't do that, he would've alreay wastelocked me).
He wastes my bog, and I play a goyf, then a reliquary, then a liliana, and he would never have the fifth mana for cracking the oblivion stone in time.
1-0
side: -1 maze, -4 hymn, +1 loam, + 1 surgical, +1 extirpate, + 1 pithing needle, + 1 spellbomb
game 2 didin't exist. He had crucible, loam, waste and ghost quarter vc a deck with 3 basics.
1-1
game 3 I was able to wastelock him myself, discard a reliquary (I knew post board he would run 4, thus I kept removals) resoled a goyf, a reliquary, and a Liliana. He cast a karmic justice, and by the time he cast a smokestack i had already lethal damage.
I ended then 3 - 0 - 1 thus winning the small tournament.
I hope my post wasn't too confusing! And thanks again for all the support :)
congrats!! interesting SB tutor package you have :)
@ryn ball_2
Thanks! In fact, I'd like to add a second Life from the Loam on the side.
It becomes relevant when you calculate how many cards are dead against combo in the mainboard (SFM package, StP, Qasali, Pulse) and look at how much sideboard space you can dedicate to this archetype. Vindicate is something I keep against combo and that complements Thalia and Choke quite nicely.
Also, Vindicating a land is very common against dedicated control decks. Pulsing a Jace is a losing scenario (I hope I won't have to explain that one), however, Vindicating and/or Wasting your opponent off his double blue/white mana or keeping him short of his 4th mana can be much more beneficial.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
@Qweerios
I feel like this about vindicate, too, but whereas vindicate is an "all-purpose removal", pulse hits multiple targets (and this can be really relevant). That's why I started running a 2/2 split.
Also, pulse is useful against TES since if he keeps his LEDs and petals in his hand, they'll be discarded (but yeah, vindicate is far better in these matches).
I'd like to run the third vindicate (and a second life from the loam), but my side AND my MD are too tight already.
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