Omniscience Combo [M13]

[bowvamp]

Omniscience - 7UUU
Enchantment
You may cast nonland cards from your hand without paying their mana cost.

Worldfire - 6RRR
Sorcery
Exile all permanents. Exile all cards from all hands and graveyards. Each player's life total becomes 1.

Staggershock - 2R
Instant
Staggershock deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Rebound

The previous Dream Halls based SnT decks need to be re-evaluated with the printing of Omniscience. For one thing, Omniscience only gives the ability to you. That means less fear of counters. Additionally, Omniscience has no color restrictions which allows for literally every worthwhile winning combo in the game to be an option and eliminates the hassle of running many 5 color fuel cards. Conflux is still a nice option to have around, but it probably is not the only one to use for a win. In the shell I propose, there is a 1-card hate-window before you win the game. That means that the top card of your opponent's library must be a land that deals 1 damage to you or they must have played a damage-dealing spell with suspend, rebound, or epic.

The win is easy as pie:
Omniscience -> Staggershock -> Worldfire

The great thing about Staggershock is that it kills your primary hoser - Gaddock Teeg.

Well, this is all fine and dandy, but the combo seems hard to set up does it not? It's at least as easy as Dream Halls. In fact, it runs Dream Halls as a 1-of so that you can still combo if they get your SnT or your Omniscience. Here's the list

//Spells
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Conflux
4 Spell Pierce
3 Dream Halls
3 Intuition
2 Staggershock
2 Preordain
1 Worldfire
1 Flusterstorm
1 Noxious Revival

//Lands
1 City of Traitors
1 Volcanic Island
1 Mountain
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Island


Comments?

Also considering this is not the only Omniscience Combo deck that people are making and I don't want to hog the namespace, consider changing the name to "Omniscience/Halls Combo [M13]" (mods).

[Viridia]

Isn't it just easier to run a build with draw into draw into draw into draw into tendrils/grapeshot?

[LOurs]

fireworld & staggershock is a nice idea, i dunno if it is the best, but it works

sensei sensei brain freeze works also (maybe not the best one though)

griselbrand has also a very nice synergy with the deck as draw engine

[bowvamp]

How is that easier Viridia?

Dream Halls can be hard cast. I'm considering going up to 2 Dream Halls, 3 Omniscience for peak efficiency. Tendrils/Grapeshot aren't unconditional. If your opponent drops a leyline of abeyance, cannonist or teeg neither will really help. Draw spells are also how you are attempting to resolve your combo in the first place. How will you sculpt your hand, resolve your spells, draw lots and cast your win spells?

In short my deck trumps storm Omniscience by consistently getting its combo and executing it.

[JDK]

I thought about Omniscience too, but it can only be played with SnT. This makes you rely on a 5/6 (4 SnT, 4 Omniscience, 1-of Dream Halls and 1-of Progenitus)-combo, rather than having the opportunity to more reliably SnT Progenitus or hardcast Dream Halls. You also don't need 3 Staggershocks - you have Conflux to tutor for it (if you don't feel confident about Conflux chains, you could play Vela instead of Staggershock or sideboarding one of them). Just play one and use the two additional slots for Progeniti.

Defense Grid is also something I don't like maindecking. Having them in the sideboard is fine, but I don't like losing to random stuff, so I'd just play counters like Daze in their slot.

I think Dream Halls is still the better target, because you can hardcast it and the discard is negligible, which makes it much more versatile.

[bowvamp]

@H3llsp4wn
SnT Progenitus isn't really as good as it once was. After turn 2, you get out clocked by literally everything unless you're playing control in which case their emrakul answers answer your progenitus with high likelihood. The 3 Staggershocks were for the ability to use intuition effectively and also to pitch to each other. They also let you use triple staggershock progenitus as a much faster alternate win (than SnT Progenitus) when worldfire can't work.

Also, I get your issue with Defense Grid. I guess Daze might just be better, but most decks these days can play around Daze and you don't really have a relevant clock. Late game is a bad scenario. To remedy this, Defense Grid sets pretty much every deck back.

How is the discard negligible? You need at least 3 cards in addition to halls to go off against a deck w/ counters and they need to be the right colors. In addition, all of your opponents counters and instant-speed search gets activated. Also, your search is much less effective because you only really can use Conflux for a profit.

Most Dream Halls lists these days run 4 Progenitus, which is tbh quite icky.

[leegoo]

Is Griselbrand or Emrakul a better secondary kill?

[Windux]

Emrakul is, by far, the better win. You cast it, so you get your extraturn. Dream Halls wasnt able to. The only bad thing is, that Conflux can't get Emrakul.

[bowvamp]

@leegoo
You could try them out, but the main advantage Progenitus has over them is being 5-colored. That means he pitches to everything and everything pitches to him. He also fills in Conflux colors that would otherwise be wasted, eliminates decking win-cons, and returns to your library after you pitch him to be fetched again.

I think that of the two Griselbrand would be a better secondary kill than Emrakul because it fills up an otherwise unused color in Conflux, can pitch/be pitched to, and protects himself.

@all:
I've replaced 3 Defense Grid, 1 Preordain, 1 Staggershock with 1 Flusterstorm, 4 Spell Pierce. This should help against annoying permanents and discard (more importantly) alike.
I'm considering moving up to 3 Dream Halls.

EDIT: I've gone -1 Intuition +1 Dream Halls

@Windux
How is Emrakul "by far" the better win? He only does 15 Damage (not 20), doesn't affect your opponent's hand, dies to legendary clause, dies to sac-effects, etc... Also Dream Halls can't use Emrakul.

[Cire]

-Combo
4 Show and tell
4 Personal tutor
4 Dream Halls
4 Omniscience
4 Conflux
4 Intuition
4 Progentius
1 Prismatic omen
1 Coalition Victory

Protection
4 Force of will
3 Daze
2 Spell Peirce

Draw
4 Brainstorm

Lands
4 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest

The kill works by finding S&T and having Dream Halls/Omniscience & Conflux/Intuition in your hand.... from there its easy to drop progentius + omens + victory. A kill that takes very few spots and doesn't target.

[JDK]

@H3llsp4wn
SnT Progenitus isn't really as good as it once was. After turn 2, you get out clocked by literally everything unless you're playing control in which case their emrakul answers answer your progenitus with high likelihood. The 3 Staggershocks were for the ability to use intuition effectively and also to pitch to each other. They also let you use triple staggershock progenitus as a much faster alternate win (than SnT Progenitus) when worldfire can't work.

Racing progenitus isn't as common as you say and I haven't seen a single control deck running Emrakul. You don't need to intuition for the finisher, but for SnT, Conflux and Omniscience. Triple staggershock + Progenitus is highly unlikely, because you need DH/Omniscience on the table (unless you play Volcanics, which makes you more vulnerable to Wasteland) and draw them.

How is the discard negligible? You need at least 3 cards in addition to halls to go off against a deck w/ counters and they need to be the right colors. In addition, all of your opponents counters and instant-speed search gets activated. Also, your search is much less effective because you only really can use Conflux for a profit.

The discard is negligible because of Progenitus and Conflux. Getting DH on the table is much easier, due to it's independence of SnT.

[xfxf]

I am trying a storm build:

3x Flusterstorm
4x Force of Will
1x Pact of Negation

3x Cunning Wish
3x Meditate
1x Ad Nauseam
2x Merchant Scroll
3x Personal Tutor
1x Intuition

4x Ponder
3x Preordain
4x Brainstorm

4x Show and Tell
4x Omniscience

3x Tendrils of Agony

4x Ancient Tomb
2x Flooded Strand
6x Island
3x Polluted Delta
2x Lotus Petal

SB:
1x Personal Tutor
1x Meditate
...

The plan is Show and Telling Omniscience into play. Then you chain a few cantrips into Meditates, Ad Nauseam and then Tendrils for the kill. You have Personal Tutor (and a bunch of cantrips to draw it off the top) or Merchant Scroll into Intuition to get a Tendrils if all those draws didn't get you one already.

I have proxied it up and goldfished a few hands. To be honest it needs fine tuning because it's currently not very consistent. However I had multiple Turn 1 kills with counter backup, some Turn 2 kills and multiple Turn 3 kills. Also there were mulligans into oblivion but I think this approach has great promise.

[bowvamp]

@Cire
Wait, how does CV + PO take fewer spots? Neither is really usable pre-combo phase, and it doesn't fight through hate when you combo out. What if your opponent uses their enchantment hate in response to CV? I would like to see examples of common board states where that kill is better than the one proposed. I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I feel like everyone (including myself) has a definite idea of exactly what they want out of an Omniscience Combo deck. Also please note that my combo works through all target-hate.

How is running 17 lands working out? I'd like to be able to go that low, but I'm afraid of the manascrew %. Especially considering your deck manipulation that can result in lands is limited to 4 Brainstorm.

@H3llsp4wn
Oops, didn't mean Emrakul. Sorry that you misinterpreted the easily-misinterpreted statement I said there. I meant Emrakul answers also answer Progenitus (for the most part). Therefore control decks are not only put on a less threatening edge with Emrakul (which they by necessity must be prepared to face), they are also allowed to use all the answers they had prepared for the Emrakul scenario.
If you look at the list, I do play a singleton volcanic in addition to a singleton mountain. I'm not very frightened of the possibility that they waste my volcanic because if I fetch it, I'm in need of Staggershock. I would be an idiot to fetch a volcanic into a waste without needing Staggershock.
Regarding the (now double) Staggershock possibility, the trick is to get DH/Omniscience on the table. SnT -> Progenitus is always going to be SnT -> Progenitus. It will never grant you free Staggershocks. I don't need to draw Staggershock, they can also be found via chaining Conflux.

@bilb_o
That list looks interesting. How is the 15 mana sources working for you?

[JDK]

That's just a waste of space. One is enough. Why would you need more?

Regarding Emrakul answers in control decks (I misunderstood your post because I thought you just retyped answer by accident ^^): Jace and Karakas cannot do anything, so you pretty much only have to face Terminus, Perish and some editc effects.

[Cire]

@Cire
Wait, how does CV + PO take fewer spots? Neither is really usable pre-combo phase, and it doesn't fight through hate when you combo out. What if your opponent uses their enchantment hate in response to CV? I would like to see examples of common board states where that kill is better than the one proposed. I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I feel like everyone (including myself) has a definite idea of exactly what they want out of an Omniscience Combo deck. Also please note that my combo works through all target-hate.

How is running 17 lands working out? I'd like to be able to go that low, but I'm afraid of the manascrew %. Especially considering your deck manipulation that can result in lands is limited to 4 Brainstorm.

I didn't notice you didn't need two Stagger shocks. As such the combo is also 2 pieces. Most of the good Dream hall kills only need two pieces besides the conflux. So i'm not worried about it - the shell remains the same. I like the redundancy of 8* dream halls instead of hoping to eventually draw into dream halls.

As for the lands. You want to be able to

1st--> Island --> personal tutor
2nd--> 2mana land --> Show and tell --> Dreamhalls/Omniscience --> Intuition/Conflux --> Win

So 9 Islands (including fetches) and 8 Tombs like lands look good to me and in practice workout more often than not. You have brainstorm to help bad draws.

[xfxf]

bowvamp, 15 lands is not bad but the hands without blue sources can be a bit problematic. Pushing turn 1 kills with Petal and Sol Lands takes away the consistency a bit.

Cire, I don't feel comfortable with your approach since it becomes a three card combo even though the redundancy can give you the Dreamhalls/Omniscience duo more often.

[joemauer]

@bilb_o: I like your approach. Few comments on your list of course.

Ad Nauseum? Really?

I think Top would be better than Personal Tutor. It would let you chain more card drawing and with two you can win with cunning wish into brain freeze.

Also, since your deck is focused on the enchantment perhaps you may want to try Academy Rector.

[xfxf]

I took the approach from Spiral Tide where you chain draw and cantrips into using "free mana" to create a 20+ storm. In Spiral Tide you can hit another Time Spiral incase you're bricking to power you up again. I figured since the biggest draw spell I have is Meditate there is a very real chance of bricking so you can always Personal Tutor into Ad Nauseam. If you have a cantrip in hand you draw it off the top an cast it for free with Omniscience and proceed with the kill. If you don't have the extra cantrip you can still set it up on the top, cast it for free next turn, draw a bunch of cards (a lot of blue tutors and cantrips), cast them for free and go for the kill.

However, I can't reliably find Omniscience with this configuration as I thought I could. Sometime you get the nut hand and kill Turn 1-2, sometimes you struggle to find the pieces until turn 4-5. I wouldn't say a turn 4-5 kill is breaking the format :)

[Antonius]

Dudes, I think what you run here is burning wish. Burning wish is a stand in for Conflux that isn't useless outside of the combo Turn. It can get removal for hate bears or get Show and Tell if you're so inclined. Also, burning wish gives you multiple options: can I win through combat? Yes? Wish for a tutor that gets Emrakul, Emrakul. I can't win through combat? Wish for Conflux, conflux into a package that murders them. OR, if you have sensei/sensei going on, you can simply wish for grapeshot--which also kills hate bears.

That said, I think the deck should have 4 Burning Wish and 2-3 Intuition as tutors on top of 10-12 Cantrips.

[Teknique]

I figured since the biggest draw spell I have is Meditate there is a very real chance of bricking so you can always Personal Tutor into Ad Nauseam.

Actually you can never do that.