Erm, just don't throw Cabal Therapies if you're facing a Cursecatcher. Just make Ichorids live and die to produce Tokens, and leave Narcomoebas for blocking. Shouldn't be too hard.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
You do know merfolk puts up a pretty fast clock with coralhelm commanders.Originally Posted by Vandalize
I dont' think building tokens with Ichorids will be faster than Coralhelm commanders flying at you.
really? cause if you are playing the 3-4 ichorids most people are, you're probably making at least 6 tokens, which is 12 power on board, which is much faster than a coralhelm. They also have to invest 4 mana to level him, which can take some time.
That's Doctor to you. Dr. Edge.
I am still trying to decide between the quad laser version (K1W1) or the more comboish version, like the one Hollywood played in his tournament.
Is it a trade-off between focus and explosiveness? Or is it much more intricate than that? What would you bring to an unknown metagame?
Apparently, Hollywood's list is a mix of grind and combo version, and I like that approach. Maybe it's a good call to an unknown metagame, I'm testing a similar list and it's good so far.
With that presumption, you are almost expecting the merfolk player to stand still and just level up a coralhelm commander each turn.
Not at all. One turn blocking with narcomoebas plus bringing Ichorids just to make tokens and another turn attacking with the Ichorids and the tokens put too much pressure against them (especially if you can bring two Ichorids).
We shouldn't overrate Merfolk's chances against us, but we shouldn't call it a bye either.
Thematchup can be very intriguing and pretty often the person who makes some incorrect play loses the match in the end.
Merfolk is a creature-based deck without any spot removal. The only way they can kill our Bridges is pretty much Wastelanding their Mutavaults, Cursecathing their own spells or doing some tricks with Phantasmal Image, but it's nowhere near as bad as against decks with 8 Lightning Bolts.
They have a few counter spells, which they can use to steal some games against us, especially when paired with Wasteland. Pretty similar to the RUG Delver matchup in this respect. They also have a pretty fast clock and the same disruption package.
The most problematic card in Merfolk decks is undoubtedly Cursecatcher. If your opponent has one of those or a Vial @ 1 and you try to cast a DR or Therapy, you diserve to lose. The question the whole matchup usually evolves around is whether your Return-Ichorids-and-let-them-die-each-turn-to-make-tokens-Plan is faster than their natural clock. Most of the time, it is. But they will regularly win games aagainst us, especially with some sort of graveyard hate to back the fish up with. One crypt activation is enough for them to race us easily.
I'd say 65 % for us pre board, 45% post board (5-10% more with Firestorm)
I get very aggressive when attacking Merfolk's strategy, which is to say, trying to "cheap shot" our Bridges out with Vial tricks and Cursecatcher. You just have to force in as much damage as you can and as early as possible. The longer the game progresses, the harder it is to get those tokens because they're getting turns to find answers. You just have to play aggressive and find a way to take the Merfolk player out of their game. Once you do that, you're able to dictate how the dynamic of the game will change.
I can't really put a finger on it; it's just something you acquire once you've played the deck for a long time. If the situation calls for it, letting your Ichorids die naturally is perfectly acceptable. Other times, you're better off trying to push in as much damage as possible.
Mini-tournament report, and GODDAMN YOU K1W1 (4-1-1 again):
List: Quadlaser + this sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Nature's Claim
3 Ashen Ghoul
2 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Ancient Grudge
Round 1: UW Miracle Whip (2-0)
G1: Fast hand, double LED, Land, 2 Stinkweed, Looting, Bridge. Combo'd turn 1, with 2 Narcos, 1 Bridge and 3 Ichorid hanging on. Eh, gg.
SB: +3 Ashen Ghoul, +1 Paradise -1 Ichorid, -2 Breakthrough, -1 Golgari Thug
G2: Another fast hand which I can't remember. He has FoW for LED, but couldn't keep up with Looting + Coliseum actvation on turn 2. Too bad Terminus sucks against Ichorids and Ashen Ghouls lol.
Round 2: UW Miracle Whip (2-0)
G1: This round takes more than 30 minutes. I start with DDD, and slow roll when he counters my lonely Breakthrough. He's able to Terminus twice, but I keep recurring 1 Ichorid at time, instead of those 2~3 that were avaliable. Beat him to death with 3 Zombies +1 Ichorid by turn 9~10.
SB: same as R1
G2: He keeps a hand full of Swords to Plowshares and 1 Extraction, but I combo out turn 2 with double Dredgers, he removes my Bridges, and I Therapy for Swords. Shortly after, hordes of Horrors stomp him.
Round 3: Goblins (2-1)
G1: I explode on turn 1, and laugh at his Lackey opener. Kill on turn 3.
SB: Nothing, wanted to see his board.
G2: Leyline of the Void.
SB: +3 Lands, +4 Nature's Claim, -4 LED, -1 Ichorid, -1 Thug, -1 PImp
G3: He mulls to 3, opens with Leyline, but I have a hand with Nature's Claim + Careful Study. I blow the enchantment, and manage to kill him by turn 5~6.
Round 4: Helm of Obedience + Leyline of the Void combo (0-2)
G1: He opens with Leyline, I make a big "WHAT THE FUCK?" face, and procede to G2.
SB: +3 Lands, +4 Nature's Claim, -4 LED, -1 Ichorid, -1 Thug, -1 PImp
G2: He opens with double Leyline of the Void and drops Tormod's Crypt on turn 1, and I just ask him to jump off a bridge.
Round 5: T.E.S
ID
Round 6: BUG Landstill (2-1)
G1: I just kill him dead by turn 3, after an explosive start on the play, and through Force of Will.
SB: nothing.
G2: I attempt to go off, he extracts my single Dredger. Turn 2 Snapcaster into another Dredger extraction. The I start bashing with PImp, but explodes a Pernicious Deed to kill it (I respond by discarding double Bridge, but he Surgicals my Bridge). He has a lethal double Snapcaster Mage (this is so funny to say, lol), but kills me with Jace 2.0 fatesealing just because he's a douche.
SB: +3 Ashen Ghoul, +2 Undiscovered Paradise, -4 Breakthrough, -1 Ichorid
G3: We start with 5 turns clock. I manage to go off turn 2, and deal exactly lethal on the last turn possible.
4-1-1, I've just been cursed by K1W1's luck.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
Yeah I remember that:D We both were kinda discouraged with the list at times, but hey, you top8ed like every GPT you played in, and I Top8ed 2/4 trials, too.(Also, Flayer was way too fun not to try!)
It's really about learning the deck's style. It doesn't play like those SCG lists(and I am glad it doesn't)
Also I really have to squeeze in this GP...I mean it's only like a 3 hour drive .__.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
Hi,
I'm new to Legacy Dredge (allthough not new to Dredge, as I'm playing it in Vintage) and I'll be going to my first tournament with this deck this saturday.
So, I bought both lists, Quadlazer and some comboish Flayer Version (-Firestorms, as they will not make it in time :().
Question is, which version would you prefer if you would expect the following meta (more or less):
~ 2 Canadian Thresh
~ 1 Big Zoo
~ 2 Reanimator
~ 2 Dredge
~ 1 U/W Miracle
~ 1 B/W Sui
Sideboards would be a few Crypts for the Thresh decks (I think one is splitting 2/2 with Surgicals), and U/W Miracle will be playing 8 Extirpate effects.
Seing as there will be at max 1 - 2 Oozes, I think I will not need Firestorms that much (maybe I'm wrong?) in the comboish version. This would open up slots for Leylines in the sideboard (that I'm definitly going to play, in both versions).
So, what would you suggest?
Thank you,
Florian
Haha. But nice to hear you played the quadlaser. Against the LotV man, this happens. How was it for you? Do you think you play the list again?
@ Hokus: I only Top 8ed 3/5 because in one i played UR Delver ( which was a mistake ) and at the last one there were too much Maverick.
I have the GPT curse. I make Top 8, but cant win it.
K1w1
My colors are... ZONK!
You haven't any colors. You play Dredge.
You love games, which are unfair. You hate Reanimator & NicFit.
At good days, you destroy everything. At bad days,
you draw Narcomoebas. But the most important thing:
Everybody hates you!
German Meta is normally a Quadlaser territory. I only saw one good performing non-quadlaser list since Looting came out.
Also, Flayers biggest appeal is his use against Enchantress+Maverick decks. If you don't expect those, I'd say run Quadlaser. Also I would like to convince more Dredge players to play the list and I am very very biases:)
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
Like i said. +1
My colors are... ZONK!
You haven't any colors. You play Dredge.
You love games, which are unfair. You hate Reanimator & NicFit.
At good days, you destroy everything. At bad days,
you draw Narcomoebas. But the most important thing:
Everybody hates you!
What do people think the most consistent* Dredge list with major tournament results? Quadlazer?
*Consistency is defined as the ability to both discard a card with Dredge and to cast a draw spell on turns 1-2.
Magic Level 3 Judge
Southern USA Regional Coordinator
Quadlaser, yes!
My colors are... ZONK!
You haven't any colors. You play Dredge.
You love games, which are unfair. You hate Reanimator & NicFit.
At good days, you destroy everything. At bad days,
you draw Narcomoebas. But the most important thing:
Everybody hates you!
Take Richard Feldman LEDless, cut the Tireless Tribe for Faithless Looting, and that list is more consistent than Quadlazer. It's quite close, but still. (And neither are the most consistent builds to place at a large tournament.)
Magic Level 3 Judge
Southern USA Regional Coordinator
Quadlazer is consistent on a different level of play because the European meta is quite different than the American meta.
I do think, however, that it is not the most consistent form of Dredge as being able to actually have access to more Gold lands game one alleviates the pressure of awkward mulligans.
Why is everyone cutting tarnish citadel for undiscovered paradise?
its not like life matters too much in this deck.
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