[Deck] Dredge

[Que]

I just read the SCG matchup with you against Maverick in the top four. What a bummer. Some kind of foreshadowing you wrote there.

Heh yeah I especially liked the caption "a turn too slow in game 1" lol. :/

[joemauer]

No. He could easily won both games if he would have mulliganed further down. Turn 1 PImp isn't going to cut it.

Did you read the same coverage as me?
Game one Que kept a hand with Pimp turn one into Breakthrough turn two with Grave Troll as his dredger. Turn two is the fundamental turn with dredge, turn one craziness would have been luck, Que kept a good hand. His opponent made a mistake with the StP and there still wasn't much Que could do.

It's okay to admit Quadlazer is weaker to Ooze than other dredge decklists(with dread return and targets). It's still a neat deck.

[HokusSchmokus]

Did you read the same coverage as me?
Game one Que kept a hand with Pimp turn one into Breakthrough turn two with Grave Troll as his dredger. Turn two is the fundamental turn with dredge, turn one craziness would have been luck, Que kept a good hand. His opponent made a mistake with the StP and there still wasn't much Que could do.

It's okay to admit Quadlazer is weaker to Ooze than other dredge decklists(with dread return and targets). It's still a neat deck.

I know it is very much weaker than other lists against maverick. That's why a hand like this isn't enough. Maverick is by far this decks worst Matchup, what will you do? Still glad Que made Top8!

[berry]

Yo.

A lil question from a new LED-dredge player, I've only played manaless before and played against LED-dredge, never with it.

With the Quadlazer-build, what are keepable hands against an opponent you KNOW is blue (consider a FoW, or a FoW + pierce if on the draw even, although that is damn lucky)? How strong does it have to be?

Also, how do you tend to play around different kinds of GY-hate? Say extraction-effects (targeting bridges unless opponent is dumb?) and crypts.

[Michael Keller]

Yo.

A lil question from a new LED-dredge player, I've only played manaless before and played against LED-dredge, never with it.

With the Quadlazer-build, what are keepable hands against an opponent you KNOW is blue (consider a FoW, or a FoW + pierce if on the draw even, although that is damn lucky)? How strong does it have to be?

Blue decks are going to have a tremendously hard time trying to keep up with basically any form of Dredge, so opening a hand with a land, draw spell, a dredger or any combination of both would be perfectly acceptable. The great thing about LED Dredge - including the 'Quadlazer' variant - is that it doesn't really necessitate the value of an opponent's opening hand, but rather relying on the merits of its own strengths and what it can do.

This is especially true game one. Force of Will and Spell Pierce are the least of your worries. The deck plays no counter-magic so you need to play straight forward and do what you have to to win the game. This includes playing your filter spells early and often.

Also, how do you tend to play around different kinds of GY-hate? Say extraction-effects (targeting bridges unless opponent is dumb?) and crypts.

Playing around Crypt requires patience, proper sideboarding and an understanding that it is okay if an opponent activates it. You can fight Crypt hate with anti-hate cards out of the sideboard like Nature's Claim, Ancient Grudge, etc. But you also have to accept its presence and how to play around it by possibly dredging a little more carefully.

Surgical Extraction requires a bit more involvement with cards like Ashen Ghoul, more lands, Tireless Tribe, Memory's Journey, etc. In order to minimize the effectiveness of an Extraction, you must diversify your threats and defense strategy post-board. In doing so, you'll be able to side-step the maximize effectiveness of those hate cards and you should ideally be in an okay place otherwise. But the key here is understanding what you should take out and what you should keep in against certain match-ups, and that is going to require a good working knowledge of the format quite frankly and what most of the better decks bring in against you.

If you have any questions, feel free to P.M. anyone of the regular contributors in here, including myself. We'd be more than happy to help you.

[Anusien]

The #1 thing to know: Dredge is a combo deck. Your position gets actively worse the longer you wait to discard Dredgers against blue decks. Most of the time on turn 1 they won't have it. If you give them a turn to make another land drop, have Daze up, and cast Brainstorm to dig for Force of Will, they'll get it. You often just have to go for ti and say, "If you've got me, you've got me."

The #1 thing I like having in my opening hand is lots of land. Many of the blue decks also have Wasteland. You can fight through counterspells much easier than you can through land destruction. Worst case scenario, if you get up to two or three lands, you can start casting creatures with Dredge and just blocking with them. If you keep a hand that is Land, Putrid Imp, Troll and four blanks, and your opponent has Force + Wasteland, you are just packing it up there.

[JonhLightning]

Hello fellow dredgers. I will be playng in a tournaments this sunday and was thinking about playing Dredge. I opted for the Quadlazer list (Which I never played, always went with FKZ for the win, but I read Quadlazer has more consistency) with a sibeboard almost as the one Que had at SCG Las Vegas. The only difference is the I play 3 Bloodghast instead of 3 Ashen Ghoul. The only hate cards agaisnt dredge that really hinders me IMO is Surgical Extraction, so I wanted more creatures to fight someone extracting my goodies. Any thought?

MD: LED - Quadlazer
Sideboard:
3 Bloodghast
4 Nature's Claim
2 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Leyline of the void

Undiscovered Paradise and Dakmor Salvage are for Bloodghast and Leyline of the void is for the mirror. I don't really think I need anything else against other decks like Show And Tell Or Storm, I believe Cabal Therapy will be enough.

[1maarten1]

I know it is very much weaker than other lists against maverick.

Mind expanding on this? Why is the Quadlazer list worse against Mav? Why are other lists better?

[HokusSchmokus]

Mind expanding on this? Why is the Quadlazer list worse against Mav? Why are other lists better?

We don't run any hate in terms of Firestorm/DR targets. No DRs, so less ability to make a criticall mass of zombies turn 1.
Because of this we need to race Maverick. Not every hand makes this possible.

[TerribleTim68]

So I settled on this list -

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Bridge from Below
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
3 Putrid Imp
3 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Dread Return
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Memory's Journey
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
//////
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Nature's Claim
3 Firestorm
1 Ichorid
1 Grizzlebrand
1 Memory's Journey
1 Blazing Archon
1 Massacre Wurm

I started with the QuadLazer list and made some mods for what I liked and what I think (heavy on the "what I think") will work better in my meta. Eventually I'll run it at a tourney and see how it goes. I wanted a Dread Return and a target and that whole Memory's Journey bit seemed not so bad. That meant dropping some stuff to make room, so you can see where I trimmed. Since I dropped an Ichorid, #4 went in the board for them blue matchups. I don't have any Ashen Gouls so that explains that. I also plan on trying to play around graveyard hate rather than side in some other endgame plan, thus the second Memory's Journey in the board seemed also not so bad. A few extra Dread Return targets and some Firestorms to help deal with them Elf/Zoo/Maverick matches and there we go, it's a deck! I hope to find one more Dread Return for the board, but it isn't a make or break deal right now.

Feel free to pick it apart. I have yet to play it against someone, just been goldfishing it at home for about 2 weeks.

[TerribleTim68]

So in my goldfishing I've noticed that whole turn 1 sequence of "Land-Lion's Eye Diamond-Breakthrough-pitch hand to LeD for 3 red and start dredging like crazy-find Faithless Looting off that dredge and basically dredge roughly 30-40 cards on turn 1" really happens more than you think it would. I'm sure that won't be near as cool when the guy across the table says Force of Will on my Breakthrough, but that's the way the game goes, right?

[sperry023]

So in my goldfishing I've noticed that whole turn 1 sequence of "Land-Lion's Eye Diamond-Breakthrough-pitch hand to LeD for 3 red and start dredging like crazy-find Faithless Looting off that dredge and basically dredge roughly 30-40 cards on turn 1" really happens more than you think it would. I'm sure that won't be near as cool when the guy across the table says Force of Will on my Breakthrough, but that's the way the game goes, right?

I've noticed that too in my goldfishing... preeeeetty sick.

I'm still trying to decide whether or not to go to the SCG event in Buffalo on Sunday. I've been following this thread for a long time and have all the cards for Quadlaser or DR, but I don't have any tournament experience so I don't know if I want to blow $40 plus 3 hours of driving.

[Woe]

Go! play in the win a box legacy events on saturday. 15 entry 8 people and single elem. Winner gets... a box. Play a few of those and see how you feel about driving on sunday.

[Michael Keller]

4-0'ed a 34 person event today, not dropping a single game (8-0-0) and wound up getting 1st.

Here is the list I ran for reference:

LED Dredge

// Lands
4 [AN] City of Brass
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
4 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
1 [OD] Tarnished Citadel

// Creatures
3 [TO] Ichorid
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
3 [RAV] Golgari Thug
3 [TO] Putrid Imp

// Spells
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [OD] Careful Study
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [DKA] Faithless Looting
4 [TO] Breakthrough
2 [RAV] Darkblast

//Sideboard
4 [WWK] Nature's Claim
3 [IA] Ashen Ghoul
3 [ON] Chain of Vapor
2 [OD] Tireless Tribe
2 [ISD] Memory's Journey
1 [OD] Tarnished Citadel

[2-0] vs. Combo Elves
[2-0] vs. Merfolk
[2-0] vs. U/w Miracles
[2-0] vs. Battle of Wits(!)

A Few Thoughts:

a.) The Darkblasts wound up being awesome against Elves, and were basically the sole reason I was able to blow him out early in both games. Its application was also important against Merfolk. I honestly like two in the main-deck; I think it's criminally underrated right now. Most lists run it as a one-of at most, but I think it's much more effective than people give it credit for. They worked out incredibly well.

b.) I think fourteen (14) lands works just fine between the main and sideboard.

c.) I changed over to Tarnished Citadel because I like having the definitive ability to activate Coliseum and not be stuck with Paradise being returned to my hand. It wound up being highly relevant.

All in all, I liked the changes and they obviously worked well. It's late so I can elaborate more tomorrow.

[SWindolph]

@Hollywood:

Congrats on your great performances with Dredge!
Can you give us an inside on your boarding strategy?

Thanks

Stephan

[Tlbwars]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamGuy
Yesterday a Dredge Deck with an trasformational sideboard made the top 8 of the SCG Legacy Open. However it transformed into Painters Servant. He wasn't playing a completely standard Dredge Build to start with though...

Check it out Here.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=48044

Can you explain me how this sideboard/Combo works ?! Played Dredge for about 2 years now and i'd never tried it ...!
Thx

[Final Fortune]

@Hollywood

How was 3 Ichorids as your only win conditions as opposed to 4 Ichorids or 3 Ichorids and 1 Dread Return? Did you ever have any trouble killing your opponent game 1 or did you just burry your opponent with Zombies and not even notice the difference? I've been wanting to see how few kill conditions I could get away with for awhile, but I ended up rounding off that 4th slot with a Dread Return that usually gets SBed out regardless for game 2 (which I think is clearly sub-optimal)

I'm not sure about 10 gold lands post-board, the math favors 11 with the 12th having diminishing returns.

[HokusSchmokus]

Can you explain me how this sideboard/Combo works ?! Played Dredge for about 2 years now and i'd never tried it ...!
Thx

What do you mean? The Painter+Grindstone combo should be known. In this case you side out 15 cards, most likely Dredgers and Returns and just side in your board.

[Tlbwars]

What do you mean? The Painter+Grindstone combo should be known. In this case you side out 15 cards, most likely Dredgers and Returns and just side in your board.

Yea but what i mean is .. Can you just explain me how the Painter+Grindstone combo works in a dredge deck ....

[Anusien]

You use all your Careful Studies and Faithless Lootings to dig for pieces and make Goblin Welder not awful.

I don't know what the confusion is?