Hello, I am new to the site but I have been playing Nic Fit all year. Haven't really had any real insight on working on my deck except for what I try play testing. I never seen any of these GBu and GBr versions. But my question is why did everyone abandoned the birthing pod version?
Edit: How good is the GBr version? I have most of the cards to make the change from GBw, just not sure if it's worth it.
Last edited by CRich3; 07-25-2012 at 07:25 PM.
GBr is putting up good results as of late, and choosing between it and GBw is a meta call. Red gives you more tools against aggro and the "oops I win" Scapeshift-Valakut combo, as well as red counters against blue combo from the board.
For myself, I took out Pod because it is was too slow and requires a delicate board set up. Too easily disrupted and not a lot of board impact.
Is the scapeshift combo really that good? It just seems somewhat slow... You have to hit some many lands, and your threats overall aren't very impressive.
There's a report on it a page or two back, plus discussion.
Here's something I've been experimenting with and developing with Arianhod's input; a more explosive variety of Nic Fit. This is a GB concept build that uses the raw power available in [card]Culling the Weak[/card] to give the deck an alternate method to not only kill Explorers but also power out incredible early plays off of Explorers, Wood Elves, and even Dryad Arbor. Late game Cullings are used to feed Oona.
4 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Phyrexian Tower
4 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Wood Elves
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
2 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Primeval Titan
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Grave Titan
1 Thragtusk
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Living Death
2 Duress
2 Culling the Weak
This build uses Duress for additional targeted discard mainboard, but this could be Thoughtseize. I had 3x Hymn in place of Wood Elves, but made the switch and am still testing with it. Wood Elves plays well when you can GSZ T1 for Dryad Arbor and play Elves T2, which could then be Culled for 4 mana (need more 4 mana drops) or Culled on T3 for 8 mana to drop...whatever, really.
Primeval Titan drags out Maze of Ith and Karakas to help combat Show and Tell. Grave Titan for straight killing power. Oona for a mana sink.
Living Death works with Culling and other sac effects to clear the board, often acting as Damnations. Fleshbag Marauders help unbalance it.
Volrath's Stronghold acts as the Recurring Nightmare of the deck, although obviously slower.
This deck might not be what I'd take to a tournament right now, but offers up some alternative tech I've been thinking about. I've put some of this stuff into more traditional builds that need more refinement. I'm curious to see if it would benefit from more Cullings or discard.
Granted, I don't even know if this solves any problems the deck is currently having, but I figure it may be of use to someone around here.
Last edited by Claymore; 07-26-2012 at 01:14 AM. Reason: asdf
Updated list, presuming I can obtain the SB cards (I still only own 1 windswept heath): Planning for tourney on Saturday, still tweaking to do. Added Karakas for presumed presence of sneak and show.
Creature (15)
1x Baneslayer Angel
2x Eternal Witness
1x Grave Titan
1x Master of the Wild Hunt
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Sun Titan
1x Thragtusk
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Ulvenwald Tracker
4x Veteran Explorer
Sorcery (10)
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Vindicate
Instant (3)
3x Swords to Plowshares
Enchantment (4)
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Recurring Nightmare
Planeswalker (3)
1x Garruk Relentless Flip
2x Liliana of the Veil
Artifact (3)
3x Sensei's Divining Top
Land (22)
3x Bayou
3x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Marsh Flats
2x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
Sideboard (15)
1x Curse of Death's Hold
3x Extirpate
1x Humility
1x Perish
3x Carpet of Flowers
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Memoricide
2x Damnation
1x Ichneumon Druid
I really hate Garruk Relentless at this point and think he is terrible... Drop for like another Vindicate or Maelstrom Pulse maybe? I personally want to try Big Garruk as a one of...
Here are my Ghent adventures, as promised. I didn't do well, but I still want to develop the deck, since I think it's really promising.
Obligatory Road Trip Story (and Disclaimer)
On Thursday afternoon, my throat became sore. That's usually the sign for an upcoming cold. We couldn't find an affordable hotel room, since the festival that was going on in Ghent caused the cheaper options to be fully booked weeks in advance. We had decided to camp - there was a campground 10 minutes from the venue. The GP is in July, it ought to be nice and warm, right?
We arrived at the campground and it was pouring. The tent meadow was like a Bayou enchanted by Evil Presence. Mud, rain, low temperatures, humidity - I could hear the cold-inducing germs cheering in my throat.
I'm just telling this to explain my obviously horrible performance, because I think it's not the deck's fault. My mind wasn't working properly, and everything is a little blurred in my memory. Fuck being sick at GPs.
(latest) DECKLIST
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
2 Innocent Blood
3 Coiling Oracle
3 Baleful Strix
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Eternal Witness
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Fierce Empath
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Fact or Fiction
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
3 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
SB
1 Krosan Grip
2 Thoughtseize
3 Extirpate
3 Force of Will
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Flusterstorm
2 Mana Leak
1 Scavenging Ooze
That's the list I ran on Sunday, and my GP list was pretty close to this. I can't remember the exact list, but it had roughly
+ Ghastly Demise
- Innocent Blood
SB
+ Tormods Crypt
- Jace TMS
Short Report
We arrived at 18:30 at the venue and I played one Grinder, since I was dead tired. I beat UR Delver despite whiffing on an early Therapy. In the second game, he played Ponder, but resolved the motions of a brainstorm (which he had also in hand, but mistakenly didn't put on the table.) I caught it, his face went to shock and he took a game loss, since there was no way to determine which cards in his hand were from the ponder. The Brainstorm was on top of his deck.
Next round, I got smashed by Dredge. Extirpate is good and well, but if you can't draw enough deeds and basically race them, you die to meager Putrid Imp / Narcomoeba / Ichorid Beats. (Note that not finding Deed soon enough / Dredge will become a repeating pattern. Also, the Crypt in the latest build was due to not being able to fight Dredge, but was poorly thought out. It was the only card I had with me.)
Main Event:
I prepared to face Maverick, RUG Delver and SnT/Reanimator.
Round One: Doomsday Combo.
Game 1, I therapied after he cracked a strand for basic Island, blindly calling Stoneforge. I saw a hand of Burning Wish, Silence, Orim's Chant, Dark Ritual etc. Figuring he was on a combo plan, I thought I'd take the fast Mana or the Wish on the Explorer backswing.
He drew, played land, Top, and passed. I played Explorer, flashbacked therapy, he Brainstormed in response, I whiffed. Then he Silenced me and killed me.
Game 2, I boarded in all the combo hate, but mulliganed a lot and died to Silence again, since I had only one Counter.
Round Two: RUG Delver.
First Game, I did what NFB does.
Second game, he had the Nuts.
Third game, I Therapied on the play, but he had Brainstorm. I mistakenly was afraid of Stifle, but he didn't even play it. In fact, no Delver player I watched or played against had Stifles. I died because he wastelanded my only blue source (Underground Sea) and could not find a third land.
Round Three: Dredge, with Nether Shadow FFS.
The player was obviously inexperienced with the Deck, but I only had Extirpates in the SB and after losing G1 to mediocre Ichorid beats again, I deeded the shit out of him G2. It doesn't help in the long run, though. Despite a mulligan to 5 and two brainstorms, I could not find an Extirpate and died.
I knew I was playing horribly, but who doesn't when one's on painkillers?
Round 4 just for fun, I crushed Sneak and Show pretty convincingly. I even won G1 after he resolved Sneak Attack, put in Griselbrand and drew 7 cards off the successful attack. Deed the Sneak, Extirpate, he reveals Emrakul in hand, discard it with Therapy, Extirpate that and then beating him with Grave Titan.
I did two 8mans after wandering around for 1,5 hours.
1st one, I lost to UR Delver and being screwed on Mana after a Mulligan to 5.
2nd one, I beat my crewmate's UW miracles in an extremely grindy game 3 in which I extirpated basically everything.
...and then proceeded to lose to Dredge, again.
After a horrible night at the campsite with little sleep and in bitter cold, I decided to settle upon the list above, with at least the crypt against dredge, to play six rounds for a box of Revised. I barely remember which round I played which deck. Painkillers = Brainkillers.
The above list is what I used in this event. I cut Ghastly Demise and added a second Innocent Blood to the MD. The Jace in the SB went away for a Tormods Crypt (in case of another Dredge deck... Extirpates just don't do enough / I play them incorrectly.)
vs. UW Stoneforge
The player was pretty bad, but mulligans for Land eventually tied the match at 1-1. Sometimes, the deck is in total control, a Deed in play, but you can't kill them because you only draw 1/1s. So, the third game ended in a draw.
vs. Deadguy Ale (twice!)
I don't know why people play this deck. It's horrible, and Nic Fit beats every single card in their deck. G1 was the usual Nic Fit thing, but it took me 25 minutes to win. In the second game, I could handle everything, but he had Hymned me twice, so we were off to topdeck mode, while a Thalia was beating me down. With only 4 minutes, we started G3 and couldn't kill each other.
The second time against DGA, the deck performed exactly how it's meant to perform. Jace/Deed just wrecks them.
vs. Merfolk
Aside: In testing, I found that once they get to two lords, you are dead in less than 2 turns if you have an island. Therefore, I concluded, either don't use islands or be sure to ramp to Deed fast enough. The latter plan seemed to work better in general, while the no islands plan can work if your starting hand permits it (like, Explorer, Therapy, Forest, Catacombs, Deed,...).
I don't remember all that much about the games, tbh. I know we had one fairly drawn out game in which he topdecked a Phantasmal Image to copy my Grave Titan. Awkward.
vs. Goblins
That game felt particularly unfair. Game 1, he starts with Mountain, Lackey. I start with Forest, Explorer and have Therapy in hand. Not close.
He sides Grafdigger's Cage against me (as did quite a few opponents). That can't be correct against the deck. It shuts off GSZ and flashback Therapies, but dies to Deed? It just feels as it is not doing enough.
Deck Review
The core of the deck, which I consider to be Explorer, Therapy, Deed, Jace and GSZ, worked admirably well. Some comments on particular cards:
Brainstorm: 4of, no question. It makes the deck really consistent. I was always happy to draw one. You have six Fetches, four Explorers and two GSZ. You should be able to utilize Brainstorm quite well. Oracle also loves Brainstorm.
Innocent Blood: It kills your Explorer and takes one of their creatures. Was especially good against Delver, since you can easily play around Daze and Spell Pierce with a CMC1 spell. Recurring it with Witness was painful at times, but often very good.
Coiling Oracle, Baleful Strix: Built-in 2-for-1s are good. Due to the relatively low land count, they rather draw a card than Explore, but that's fine. T2 Orcale T3 Jace still happens once in a while. If you can afford it, set up Lands with Brainstorm or Jace.
Strix usually buys time and occasionally wins games. One thing I learned to love is the high creature count of the deck. If you suspect they are holding Spell Pierce, just drop a Strix. Both creatures are blue spells, which helps casting FoW if you need to. Six seems reasonable.
Eternal Witness: Three is the perfect number, especially for Game ones. It's basically never a dead topdeck. I sometimes boarded out a Witness or two when I did a lot of things with my graveyard in the first game. People board GY hate, and this deck is perfectly capable of winning while ignoring the Graveyard as a resource. Having three Witnesses also made the Fact or Fiction piles a lot harder.
Fierce Empath: I'm struggling with this card. It's a zenithable creature tutor and when I boarded out the Recurring Nightmare/Kokusho plan because of GY hate, I left Empath and Grave Titan as a compact hardcastable wincon. Still, it seems unspectacular as a card.
Recurring Nightmare / Kokusho: Being untutorable, the engine is clearly weaker than in the Gifts build. I sided both cards out quite a lot, since people were packing GY hate anyway. I still like it in the MD, because if you find Nightmare, it's hilarious.
Maelstrom Pulse: Good catchall. 2 seems fine.
Fact or Fiction: Aside from the actual fun you have when your opponent makes piles, the card was really strong. It may not have the game-ending capacity Gifts has, but since you choose the pile, you get what you want faster. Postboard, you also possibly dodge Surgical. Preboard, this card is why Witnesses shouldn't be cut. I was always happy to cast it, and getting the cards on the spot instead of witnessing or GSZ--> witnessing them was crucial in several matches. It's double filthy if you have a Witness ready in your hand. It's also fine to use it as Counter bait.
Jace TMS: One of the best cards in certain matchups. I really want the third Jace in the board and it was a mistake to cut him in the first place. It's interaction (or more precisely, lack of interaction) with Pernicious Deed is wonderful, and Explorer helps you to actually get to resolve him through Spell Pierce or Deed away annoying stuff soon enough. I like how the deck can go BUG Control postboard. I think it's a real strength.
Thragtusk: Worth every penny in many aggro matchups. This card generates just so much time.
Grave Titan: If they don't copy it, this is the beatstick to go. Tokens can also be sacrificed to strip them off anything valuable left with Therapies. Titan also does not care about Innocent Blood. And the look on your opponent's face when you hardcast it is just priceless.
Green Sun's Zenith: 2 was fine, especially postboard, because having too many makes their Grafdigger's Cages actually do something.
SB:
Krosan Grip: Was helpful against UW Stoneforge. Didn't play against Revoker / Needle. I think it's a fair slot.
Thoughtseize: Stellar, but I would not want more than 2.
Extirpate: Equally stellar. 3 is about right, especially considering the fact we run Brainstorm to dig for one.
Tormods Crypt: Didn't play against Dredge again, duh -.-
Flusterstorm: Never drew them and didn't play against Combo all that often. Can't judge the card.
Mana Leak: Surprisingly good. People just don't play around that card. Sure, you're giving them free lands, but I still got them with Leak after an Explorer had died.
Scavenging Ooze: This card wins Games against Delver, just make sure it resolves/lives. Worth the slot a thousand times.
Force of Will: I upped this to three, but am not sure this is correct.
General thoughts
The nature of the deck – every card either drawing cards, generating life or somehow being more valuable than a card – is awesome. If they are forced to kill or attack into Oracles and Strixes, the game goes in the right direction. However, I often struggled to find something that actually kills them. Fact or Fiction usually speeds this process along nicely. Strix beats are not very impressive. I noticed that I deeded most often for two and then proceeded to apply Witness beats.
The fact that you are playing blue makes most players afraid of counters and leaves them playing around Counterspell / Daze / Spell Pierce. It's really fun to watch. Just make sure they don't get that you have none. A timely "Wait!" and then shuffling your cards in hand can buy a lot of time.
One thing that makes it so hard to play the deck correctly is the fact that you don't play the usual Wasteland game, but quite the opposite. You give them lands. It's like yelling „Do your worst, I won't move“ - and after surviving this, killing them with raw card advantage. You need to be able to assess what cards pose an actual threat to you. This is hard, given the many ways in which the deck is able to deal with problematic stuff. Oftentimes, I struggled with what to call for flashbacked therapies, since I had two other ways to deal with the most dangerous card in my opponents hand.
I'm pretty sure my list wants 60 cards and a 22nd land. When I mulliganed into oblivion, it was usually due to the fact that I could not find two lands in my starting hand. It should possibly be a Misty Rainforest, but I'm not sure.
In fact, the Deck mulligans rather well. I remember one game in which I went to three cards and almost topdecked myself to a win – I kept Explorer, Tower, blank, I think? Anyway, the Explorer died and if I had found Deed in time, I simply would have won the match. Sadly, no Deed on top of my deck.
The most promising thought I had was adding some more pressure, since this list is a little faster than the Gifts version, I presume. I'm thinking about Vendilion Clique right now, since it synergizes with Cabal Therapy and gets rid of stuff you can't deal with. It also beats for 3 and does not die to a Deed for 2. I want to make the deck just a little faster and a little less grindy. If that route proves to be valuable, I can see cutting the third forest for a third Island and running actual Counterspells from the sideboard.
Oof. That one got rather long.
Thanks to Arianrhod, Qweerios and you guys for excellent advice and commentary. I hope we can make this into a real deck. Thanks for reading :)
Good to see a report on an actual BUG Fit list (I call it BUG Fit when it packs Jace). After seeing your list and reading your report, I think more of your performance had to do with your deck than your illness than you think. I have been entirely dedicated to the blue splash for the past weeks and it really wreaks havoc in the mid/late game. However, it concedes the early game and you pretty much cross your fingers that your opponent doesn't combo or aggro-explode in your face. It is very easy to play a threat and follow up with a Stifle/Waste + Daze/Pierce/Snare/FoW and pretty much lock us out of the game in 2-3 turns. Nic Fit is already a strong deck against any form of aggro (fast or slow), and control decks. Its traditional nemesis is combo decks. This alone is what makes it a meta predator in a sea of RUG/Maverick. When you want to include a 3rd color to that delicate balance, you have to be careful as to what you are giving up and what you are taking away.
Here are a couple of things I am very adamant about concerning BUG lists:
Top > Brainstorm,
We don't play FoW MD, we can't dig for instant answers, and we can't abuse tempo in any aggressive fashion. Drawing 3 and shuffling away your 2 worst cards is great, but it rarely allows you to put a lock on the game, then what? Sometimes you don't even have shuffling effects and it becomes considerably worst. Top allows you to continuously sculpt your top 3 cards until you find what you desire. It is impervious to Deed and gains value with every passing turn. It will allow you to transform every single extra mana and shuffling effects into Portent.
Gifts > FoF,
This one is very simple, what is the purpose of that card? To produce insurmountable card advantage and bury your opponent in threats/disruption/answers the following turns. Gifts is a thousand times more flexible because it allows you to tutor up 4 cards in your deck over the next 2-3 turns. The traditional Gift pile of 2X Witness effects +2 wanted cards is rarely the go-to pile and I don't recommend it. However, between the Volrath Tower combo, a couple Titans, Witness, Loam, and a few utility lands, there is a lot of GY interactions that will corner your opponent in a matter of seconds. Gift piles offer emergency answers and inevitability while FoF may offer you either, but mostly, it allows you to durdle with your deck a bit longer until you finally achieve what you want. Gifts isn't something you have to look at in a vacuum, there are cards in play, in your hand, and in your GY prior to your first Gifts, and that's what makes it a monster in a deck with so many engines.
Other comments on cards:
Stryx is a waste of time. I'd rather spent my first turns ramping and disrupting my opponent than a cantriping 1/1 Fly/DT body. Stryx has value written all over it, but it is very narrow and of poor quality in a deck with such high aspirations. I find Viridian Emissary just as good if not better. Besides, play your full playset of GSZ before even considering Stryx, the latter pales in comparison to the prior.
Jace is powerful because he is the ultimate Phyrexian Arena for us. Fatesealing into victory isn't much of an option because we have other means of winning that offer more inevitability, card advantage, and that will simply finish our opponent faster. Fatesealing into victory is horribly slow when you can't keep your opponent in check with counterspells. There is a lot of good to be said about Jace but I don't feel like I can afford the mana cost and deck space at the moment.
Here is my latest list:
Creatures (16)
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Coiling Oracle
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Grave Titan
Spells (21)
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Innocent Blood
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Life from the Loam
2 Gifts Ungiven
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands (23)
1 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cabal Pit
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island
Sideboard (15)
4 Negate
2 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
2 Extirpate
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Darkblast
1 Karakas
I have opted against Planeswalkers altogether because Gifts and Titans already offer so much value and inevitability that PWs have lost their appeal for board control (they have become win-more). The only PW I would consider is Jace in a control heavy meta. IB and TS have replaced Lily and Prime Titan has replaced Garruk. All of these changes greatly increase the synergy with the rest of the deck. I am now considering to replace Cabal Pit with Karakas and include a Damnation in the board. MD Karakas would give me a better G1 against Sneak Show and Reanimator as I can easely find it via Gifts/Titan. My goal with the GBu version is to maintain the raw strength of GB against aggro and tempo-aggro decks while increasing my odds against dedicated control and combo decks (AKA: adapting to the meta).
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Okay -- I'm up to date on the posts, and I've got some stuff to say -- not too much, though, I think, because I've been working on the primer pretty much most of the day. I still have a few more lists to harvest and some more summaries to write...then it's just matchup analyses and it'll be good to go. I may end up having to post it somewhere else and have it linked here....it very well might be too big for its own good (looks like it's going to end up being around 35 pages in MSWord [keep in mind a fair bit of that is decklists, but still]).
I agree with some of what you said, Qweerios, but I'll remind you that he wants something a little closer to BUG Control powered by the Veteran engine (obv. reworking all of the traditional bug control choices in the process). He doesn't want GB Fit splashed blue. However, there's definitely a lot of merit to what you said even applied to his version.
Top is indeed quite sexy, especially with Coiling Oracle (although you can't set up Oracle for t2 like you can with EoT brainstorm). As incredibly awkward as it is to say this, I feel that the correct course of action is probably some weird combination of the two....like 3 Top/2 Brainstorm (or the other way around). One of the reasons Titans are so popular in the deck is because they generate value turn after turn. Qweerios is spot-on with that: repeatable advantage is king for attrition decks. That said, I feel the "Draw 3" boost of Brainstorm has its place too -- but rather than as a card advantage/quality staple, it's as a late-game refuel that can be used early to recover out of stumbling hands.
I'm personally a huge fan of Strix. Emissary is an interesting thought, but I feel like the fact that Strix takes something with it on the way out is relevant, and the fact that the land from Emissary comes in tapped is a deal killer for me. I'd definitely look into putting in the 3rd GSZ, though - probably at the expense of a Strix. Strix is kind of a sort of Moat replacement for the BUG version, because people are usually going to be afraid to swing into it.
I think most of us are on board with Gifts being better than Fact, but keep in mind that he didn't have time to learn Gifts piles before the event. Going forward, we'll be seeing a lot more Gifts, I feel. Some lists might still opt for a 1-of Fact, but I think Gifts is the king of the 4-drop blue instants [lolcryptic].
I like the way Qweerios described Jace -- as "our ultimate phyrexian arena." I do believe there are times when Jace is going to end up being your win condition -- and when your opponent has no field and no hand, obv. fateseal away. But I think that 75% of the time at least, you're going to be wanting him to Brainstorm with....which is another reason I'm questioning 4x Brainstorm.
I like the idea of Clique, actually. Not sure where the room is for it, but it seems like a good fit with the deck.
@KungFu -- I'd probably say drop the Relentless for a 2nd Baneslayer, personally. If you think there's going to be Sneak, definitely do that -- they get REALLY, REALLY angry when you drop a Baneslayer to their Griselbrand off of Show and Tell. World's most random protection, suddenly relevant.
@Claymore -- I have a few comments on your list, but overall it looks like a good place to start. Btw, have you considered Phyrexian Obliterator? I know we're getting a little too all-in on Culling, but good lord if you get Obliterator out early vs certain decks, you just win. Straight up.
It's really anti-synergistic with Deed, but what about Bitterblossom? Having an endless stream of tokens to Cull would alleviate some of the pressure of having to have a creature to sac. It would also force aggro opponents to overcommit into Deed. Probably too cute, though. Do some testing and see how it goes =)
I've thought about Obliterator, but the mana cost scares me and I worry about his board impact. A nice moat effect if nothing else... Also, you just made me think of Greater Harvester for some reason. Probably too dumb.
Bitterblossom. I like it. Gives the deck the early game it often lacks. Faeries for saccing against Fleshbag, Culling, or hell even Harvester if we put that ridiculousness in. Anti-synergy with Deed is probably good, because if you need to pop Deed then those tokens and life loss weren't helping. Gives the deck a bit of Deadguy Ale edge, which supposedly gives SnT problems based on comments over there.
Otherwise I'm gonna stay away from the BUG talk since I don't have pilot experience, haha.
@Qweerios
That BUG list is by far the best looking one I've seen to date. There are a few things I would test though. I kind of want to see a third Green Sun's Zenith somewhere in the list. Also a Recurring Nightmare with the Gifts package seems reasonable. I think one Coiling Oracle can probably be cut safely. Not sure where to squeeze in the other yet. Got to test that. Obviously the sideboard is metagame dependant, but I think ten pinpoint discard spells plus four Negates is overkill against combo. That's not even counting the flashback on Therapy. I think two of the extra discard could be either something along the lines of Damnation and/or more graveyard hate. Just my thoughts, but the list looks really sick. I'm completely onboard with just a splash of blue.
Alright I've gone from Garruk -> 2nd Baneslayer.Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I've also decided to drop the Ulvenwald Tracker for now.
I have 1 open spot in the deck, and here are my choices:
2nd Scavenging Ooze
Wall of Blossoms
Qasali Pridemage
Wickerbough Elder
Living Death
Primeval Titan?
Phyrexian Arena
Depends largely on your meta, I'd say -- almost all of those would be good choices. In a fairly open meta I'd say Qasali or Arena. Should we be targeting anything specifically?
Without a Rector I'd suggest Pridemage, since a fairly open meta can bring all sorts of troubles and you can have a better game 1 toolbox
It allows for main board hate against Revoker/Needle, which will come out against your Deeds
Nothing specific that I know of really. It will be a new meta for me. I think I either need pridemage or elder in the main or side so it's probably fine in the main.
Last q:
2 Phyrexian Arena
1 Karakas
or
1 P Arena
1 Karakas
1 Volrath's Stronghold?
Karakas will be a dead card in most of your matchups, especially without tutor ability. If you changed, say, Thrun (Sigarda is close enough) or Master of the Wild Hunt (you don't run Death Wolves anymore) to Primeval Titan, then I could see you rolling with the
1 P Arena
1 Karakas
1 Stronghold
package fairly well. Your Karakas would be more for removal than to protect your own dudes, and Stronghold gets you recursion of your utility critters.
Otherwise I'd roll with the 2 Arena/Karakas plan, since I'd rather give the deck extra consistency.
I'd two the 2x Arena + I guess Karakas. Where's the slot for the Karakas coming from? I prefer having a 3rd Plains, personally, because there are (corner) cases when you'll go like, forest veteran Tower, with Baneslayer and a plains in hand, and you'll rage. It DOES happen. Karakas will be decent when you find it, some of the time, but remember it's also another wasteland target, and you want to be as wasteland resistant as possible.
Double Arena seems fine, especially if your area has a lot of SCG wannabes that netdeck whatever's doing well at SCG, which lately has been Stoneblade (Arena will singlehandedly win you that matchup). And if you happen to run into burn, well, you know what to board out =P
Hello,
Does anyone remember what post the Gift Piles were discussed in? I know a few months ago Qweerios summarized the different NicFit versions and I believe there was a discussion of Gift Piles around that point.
This is all the more need for a wiki style thread, to promote dynamic discussion by section as opposed to linear, disjointed discussions.
I'm interested in the BUG version and I would like to read up on Gift Piles before I begin.
Thank you guys
I looked back in the posts around page 50 and I didn't have any luck find the gift piles. I also did a search on "Gift Piles" and perhaps I am searching incorrectly, but it didn't produce any useful results.
I did some google foo and came up with these (on the same page):
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post656848
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post657705
+the reply to this last one
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I'm taking a more traditional GBw list to a tournament tomorrow...not sure at all what to expect, other than one guy who might bring Show and Tell Hive Mind, so I'm running with extra discard in the main board.
The deck is seeming to be vulnderable to aggro...specifically Merfolk, which can quickly overwhelm our defenses. If tribal is indeed having a resurgence, would it make sense to have Master of the Wild Hunt or something else in the sideboard? Garruk Relentless coming back to the main? Assuming for non-Moat builds
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