Originally Posted by Vacrix
When sneakshow was placing as often people were clamoring for bannings.
lol. Makes me sad seeing that. I wanted to go down there today since the Legacy scene in Vegas is so f'n dead right now and support it whenever I can. But I decided not to because $40 is a bit to much for me to spend on a tourney right now, and I've just come back to MTG after being away for 4 years and have absolutely no experience playing against a lot of the popular decks right now, because the Legacy scene here is so horrendous. This is sad because if I went I would have played my belcher deck, for one its the most competitive deck I have together right now, and 2 its probably the best deck I could play period when not being to familiar with the cards everyone else is playing. I was on the fence still, but what tilted me toward not going was that it placed well recently enough that I expected not to do to well due to more hate and probably a more blue heavy meta compared to the recent SCGs.
Anyway. I do like that he played the more traditional list, as I'm not a fan of the wishless build. But the board he played had its goods and bads. Good that he didn't do something lame like 14 Islands and 1 EtW, because that joke sideboard has been done enough now. Bad in that I do in fact agree that devoting half of a sideboard to a wishboard is a waste. And bad I suppose that he didn't bring the deck anything new/interesting, but can't really fault him on that. Just a bummer.
Last edited by DarkAkuma; 07-28-2012 at 06:25 PM.
It really is a pity, with a deck as all-in as belcher, you really don't have a lot of room to innovate on.
How i wish there is a Black Spirit Guide so I can switch to a BlackRed Belcher or even a Land Grant that can search up Badlands would be sweet here's to hoping!
To force or not to force? That is the question.
If you are looking to play B/R fast combo, have you considered SITES? It's a B/R SI variant. Deck list from the SI primer needs a few obvious updates (switch out one land for Dryad Arbor, and use fetches that can grab green, etc), but once you make those changes the deck is really solid. Win conditions are Tendrils, EtW, and Burning Wish. It's much more resilient against blue than standard SI or Belcher.It really is a pity, with a deck as all-in as belcher, you really don't have a lot of room to innovate on.
How i wish there is a Black Spirit Guide so I can switch to a BlackRed Belcher or even a Land Grant that can search up Badlands would be sweet here's to hoping!
Heads up: Land Grant only searches for a Forest card. Might be a kink in your Badlands plan there.It really is a pity, with a deck as all-in as belcher, you really don't have a lot of room to innovate on.
How i wish there is a Black Spirit Guide so I can switch to a BlackRed Belcher or even a Land Grant that can search up Badlands would be sweet here's to hoping!
That is why I said, I wish, and here's to hoping.Heads up: Land Grant only searches for a Forest card. Might be a kink in your Badlands plan there.
I was wishing for a card like that to be printed.
Still It would be sweet if there are cards to outright replace the green cards, tinder wall (dark rit), Land Grant (my wish card that searches for mountain :lol:) and ESG (Black Spirit Guide).
Just wishful thinking really.
Yeah, I've seen a couple of SI variant's it seems good and would like to try it out soon. It seems it would be the closest to what I'm thinking of.
To force or not to force? That is the question.
Hey guys, I'm currently looking for a legacy deck and since I dont have much money to spend on one, the Belcher deck has caught my attention. the thing is, I'm kinda unsure about the current viability of the deck vs the current meta.Its not that Im going to play on big tourneys, but Id like to win some regional ones :p what do you guys think? also, belcher vs spanish inquisition, which one to take and why?
Both Belcher and SI get worse the more people run anti-combo hate cards, but they're very very rarely the reason for those hate cards. So the better other combo/control does, the worse time of it Belcher and SI are gonna have the tournament after.
I would suggest Belcher. The only major expense is 4x Lion's Eye Diamonds, and the decision-making trees are much less complicated. It can also be a good trainer into the more complicated decks like SI; playing belcher you start to internalize decisions involving storm and mana and you can play other combo decks far more confidently.
The downside of Belcher is that the deck is relatively stagnant. It's been mathed all to hell, the standard lists are hard to sideboard with because it's detrimental to your plan A to improve your plan B, and you're unlikely to surprise any opponent beyond the first turn of game 1 with your brilliant new tech, because there is none. SI is less well-known, much more difficult to SB against, and has tools (for a very skilled pilot) to overcome whatever it is your opponent thinks is going to shut you down.
But still, Belcher is a good investment in part because it's such a small investment and upgrades from new sets are extremely obvious (like Gitaxian Probe replacing Pyretic Ritual, the weakest acceleration spell, in the last generation of the standard decklist.
thanks for the heads up. I think I'll be going for it, try to win some local tourneys to get some money and cards for, maybe, in the future, make another deck :)
I know one thing, when I goldfish this deck on my kitchen table I want to play it in a tourney so bad! It just does what it does so consistantly! Well, until your opponent goes "Force of Will" and you fizzle.
I think one of the main reasons Belcher is doing so well, is that EtW is simply the nuts right now. We've arrived at the same conclusion over in the TES thread and even dropped Tendrils from the main. An early Empty almost always gets there, and we can always wish into other business if need be.
If I were to play Belcher, I'd certainly be in favor of the Wish variety. Having 7 EtW's just seems way too good to pass up.
Yea, that turn 1 Empty The Warrens usually spells "good game". But when you go turn 1 "Remove Simian Spirit Guide for a red, cast Rite of Flame" only to be met with Force of Will while you're holding what would have been a turn 1 Empty The Warrens with 6 or 7 storm, you pretty much just cry inside.
My meta is so blue heavy that Belcher just doesn't get there. It seems like every opponent in my meta is packing Force, Stifle & Daze.I like the TES lists that run Orim's chant or Silence or both just because of all the blue here. But Belcher doesn't have that luxury. IF I could figure out how to beat blue with this deck on a consistant basis, I'd ram it down thier throat! I love playing it.
Yea, that turn 1 Empty The Warrens usually spells "good game". But when you go turn 1 "Remove Simian Spirit Guide for a red, cast Rite of Flame" only to be met with Force of Will while you're holding what would have been a turn 1 Empty The Warrens with 6 or 7 storm, you pretty much just cry inside.
My meta is so blue heavy that Belcher just doesn't get there. It seems like every opponent in my meta is packing Force, Stifle & Daze.
EDIT: I'm retarded disregard that lol. (Thought it was like silence... derp)
If my opponent FoWs my first ritual, I high five myself in my head because I can, more than likely, go off next turn. Now if they counter the ritual that gets me to 4 or would leave me with 1 floating if countered, I say, "Well Played."
And then what do you do, other than roll over and die?
It seems like I'm usually met with a Force on the first turn, then a Daze on the second and so on. If they only had a single counter it wouldn't be so bad. But they seem to always have enough permission to counter every meaningful thing I try to do.
There are some decks that simply run nearly as much permission as you run counterable acceleration. On top of that, they get to 2:1 you when they let you hit your second spell in the chain. You can only beat these players if you are lucky, or they are greedy. Like Zoo, Belcher is a consistent deck that punishes bad opponents. Unlike Zoo, Belcher also randomly crushes good opponents that don't play blue (whereas Zoo randomly crushes good opponents that do play blue).
It's the nature of the deck, and why there are few dedicated Belcher pilots - it's very much a meta call. Belcher (and SI, and Dredge, and other meta decks) are decks that are great to have in your arsenal for those unprepared metas, but are never going to be consistent performers against prepared metas.
Edit: I played against Belcher in a tournament on the weekend, and she drew the god-hand seven that included EtW and four spirit guide. She didn't need to resolve a single spell to win. Fortunately, I was playing Solidarity (I was expecting loads of storm decks) and that deck has a fantastic storm v storm matchup. High Tide, Reset, Cunning Wish, Echoing Truth in the face of lethal damage bought me the time I needed to win.
I guess I'm looking for that magic way to get around all the blue. Sounds like it just may not exist.
In my experience from the times I've played it, I straight roll anything that doesn't have blue. It isn't even a contest. Usually it is so bad that when I drop the first card they go "Oh crap, Belcher?". But the blue decks just annihilate me every time. I may sneak off with game 1 on occasion, but after that I get rolled like a mission style burrito.
So if there is something out there that helps with the blue matchups, I'm all ears. I've read the stuff about Carpet Of Flowers but I still don't see how it helps that much. Sure, it adds mana for you, but it doesn't add storm. And in the blue matchups, Empty The Warrens seems the better route. Is Xantid Swarm the only viable answer?
The point of Carpet of Flowers is that you not that it builds storm, it's that you no longer care if your storm building spells resolve. Heck, countering them just gives you more storm, but does not really stop you from going off. It also means that after being shut down, a top-decked Belcher is probably a win.
Autumn's Veil is a green Silence in this deck, and could be worth playing if you can generate and float the green mana. This forces them to have two counters, because you don't cast AV until after their first counter hits your ritual. Double FoW is unlikely.
Of course, if I were running AV, I might consider running Summoner's Pact as well, because it effectively doubles the number of ESG you are running (which is the best way to sneak out that AV they are not expecting).
Ok sweet! That's the tech I was looking for. Thank you! I quit playing right at Mirrodin block and only came back last year. So some of these newer cards escape me. I think that might be what I'm looking for. I thought about Overmaster but it wasn't what I was looking for since it's only the next spell. Xantid Swarm seemed possible but not exactly what I want to do either since there is plenty of creature removal in Legacy. So I think I'll go grab some Autumn's Veils and give that a go.
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