[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Justin]

While it's true that a Deed onboard means you're "safer," it does not mean you're safe. They all have some number of Disenchants, and they're perfectly fine just sitting there waiting until they draw one (or a Snap if they've already killed something), nuke Deed, then EoT Entreat.

IMO, Entreat is the real problem in the deck. If we extract their Entreats, they're just left with Jace as a win condition. Now, Jace is still pretty good against us, but let's face it -- we know how to deal with Jace. We have Pulse, Vindicate, Sigarda, Tusk, Valakut, Fetters, REBs, Thrun, Huntmaster, Grave Titan, and a few other toys....all of which can be used to shit on Jace. To that end, I'd prioritize getting rid of Entreat accordingly.

And Alex is exactly right -- they don't run Wasteland, and they're a slow enough deck that we can actually Valakut them out literally just by playing lands. That said, you need to be careful with it so that you don't run out too many mountains before you have the 2nd Valakut. I'd hold any excess mountains until that point, once you hit the 5 requirement. That leaves you 6 shots in the deck, which, with double Valakut, gives you 36 damage to distribute to Jaces and/or face.

Yeah, I think that UW Miracles is a favorable matchup for Nic Fit. I played UW Miracles against a Nic Fit deck, lost and was extremely frustrated with by the matchup. Nic Fit has the advantage in this matchup in both the short game and the long game. It can disrupt them early with discard, Thoughtseize and Therapy/Explorer combo etc. And it can answer their win conditions. Maelstrom Pulse is really strong as it can kill all their Angel tokens or Jace. Running Top really helps against Jace, because it negates the effectiveness of its "fateseal" ability. It makes them not want to use Jace as a win con if you have a top out and brainstorm instead to find an Entreat, which you can stop with Pulse or Deed. Plus, you can recur your stuff with Witness and Volrath's Stronghold and combo those with Phyrexian Tower, while they don't have wastes to deal with your lands. If you can resolve a Primeval Titan, it pretty much crushes them, as you can fetch a Stronghold or a couple Treetop Villages.

[Cire_dk]

@Justin I agree with the solutions you offer but because they cast entreat EoT it is not possible to resolve a pulse. As mentioned before a deed might work but they have many answers. I still like an earlier suggestion of using raking canopy with a rector on the board. This gives an instant answer and can be used again with Eternal witness for their possible second entreat. Although once you countered number one cranial extraction will take care of the rest.

[Viridia]

To be honest, it really depends on who's playing the deck, a mate of mine pilots UW Miracle and is incredibly good, and extremely hard to win against (i have to admit, he runs Clique mainboard, which often forces you to play out the Deed early aswell as forcing you to pop it to not die to Clique/Snapcaster beats).
But i think if you play it carefully and dont run too many threats into the board (2 is enough), preferably Thragtusk + something, it means they can't X for 1 you easily with Terminus and chain StP->Snapcaster-StP etc.

[Star|Scream]

I would think sandbagging a Negate specifically for ETA or disenchant on your deed would help in BUG fit, but I've never played the match.

[Arianrhod]

Agreed@Viridia. IMO, Cranial Extraction and Memoricide are our strongest weapons in the matchup. If we can remove Entreat, they're just a really bad Jace deck, which, while annoying, should be fairly easily beatable. Extirpate on a Terminus in response to a 2nd Terminus's Miracle trigger can do some pretty good work too, as long as they don't have Counterbalance out (there would be a 1-drop (top) on top of their deck, most likely....keep in mind that CB still triggers under Split Second).

I do love me some Raking Canopy...along with onboard Deed, it gives them a lot of problems before they can actually Entreat ftw, despite Disenchant + Snap-disenchant. It also shuts down Clique beats, and comes in vs Delver. Good multi-purpose card for Rector builds....props to Claymore for that.

Justin is correct in that versions with Primeval Titan are favored over those that don't run it -- Primeval's presence means lands that do annoying things, which Miracles can't support Wasteland -> has no way of dealing with that. Even if the Titan doesn't resolve, the matchup is incredibly grindy, and you'll probably find the lands in time for them to do work. Literally, the matchup takes forever. Just adopt the control mindset and you should be fine -- think of it like when playing vs combo. You have the better lategame -- they are the beatdown. Just remove as many of their options as you can...prison them out until they die to your superior card quality.

God I love being able to say that when not running blue.

[Justin]

Green Sun's Zenith is another really good card against Miracle. It allows you to fetch back those important green creatures that your opponent put at the bottom of your deck with Terminus and Clique. It also gets around Counterbalance, which they should side out against you anyway. Nic Fit is just loaded with good cards in this matchup, but you can maximize your chances by running more Top.

[Qweerios]

I think Miracle is unfavorable by a long margin. In this matchup, we have no choice but to attempt to be a control deck, however, in the end they always get the last word (because controling the stack is much more important than the board against ctrl). From the testing I did against Miracle, don't side in targeted discard against them, it doesn't work in the long run because they operate with the top of their deck. Extirpate is key in this MU as a split second shuffler and win-con hoser. Having a Negate in your top3 with a Top in play is also very powerful against UW Miracle and UWb Miracle.

On unrelated news, I have finished my testing with BUG Fit and found satisfaction in a particular list. I will play it tonight at a local event and bring you the news.

[Star|Scream]

I think Miracle is unfavorable by a long margin. In this matchup, we have no choice but to attempt to be a control deck, however, in the end they always get the last word (because controling the stack is much more important than the board against ctrl). From the testing I did against Miracle, don't side in targeted discard against them, it doesn't work in the long run because they operate with the top of their deck. Extirpate is key in this MU as a split second shuffler and win-con hoser. Having a Negate in your top3 with a Top in play is also very powerful against UW Miracle and UWb Miracle.

On unrelated news, I have finished my testing with BUG Fit and found satisfaction in a particular list. I will play it tonight at a local event and bring you the news.

yay!

[CRich3]

Has anyone tested Desciple of Bolas? He looks pretty interesting in here. My deck is slowly becoming more BG but I can't bring myself to take out white because Academy Rector and Sun Titan are just to powerful.

[Megadeus]

Has anyone tested Desciple of Bolas? He looks pretty interesting in here. My deck is slowly becoming more BG but I can't bring myself to take out white because Academy Rector and Sun Titan are just to powerful.

I'll probably be testing him as a one of tomorrow night

[Qweerios]

Well that went well, I took first place with my latest BuG Fit:


Creatures (14)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Coiling Oracle
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Grave Titan
1 Shriekmaw

Spells (23)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Innocent Blood
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Gifts Ungiven

3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Pernicious Deed

2 Liliana of the Veil

Lands (23)
1 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Island

Sideboard (15)
4 Negate
4 Thoughtseize
2 Extirpate
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Darkblast


R1 against Reanimator, 2-1:
G1: I have Karakas and 2 GSZ in my opener. I bounce a Reanimated Griselbrand and Ooze seals it.

-4 Deed -2 Lily -1 Shriek -1 Thrun +4 Thoughtseize +2 Extirpate +2 Faeries

G2: My explorer gets Forced and Iona on black gets reanimated. I am 1 turn away from racing my opponent with a witness but I am missing a land for Thragtusk. I end up GSZing for Oracle and tell my opponent to pick a card in my deck to flip. It isn't Karakas so I lose. Close game overall despite no GY hate.

G3: I have Karakas in my opener again. Karakas gets Needled, then Show n Tell on Angel of Despair/Prime Titan, destroying my Titan but leaving me with Volrath Tower. Innocent blood + recurring Macabre seals it.

R2 against Esper Tez/Thopter control, 2-0:
G1: Deed on Foundry + SotM + Bridge, then Gift for Wasteland/Loam/Witness/Volrath. I wastelock my opponent and beat with Thrun.

-2 Blood -1 Shriek -1 Karakas +2 Extirpate +2 Thoughtseize

G2: Double Therapy + Explorer (3 Therapies) rips O-ring and Tez from my opponent's hand leaving him with a Bridge and a bunch of lands (the Artifact recursion one that I forgot the name). I draw a Gifts and grab Witness, Pulse, Loam, and Volrath (I am holding Wasteland and have Tower in play). My opponent Enlightened Tutors for a Tormod's Crypt so I Extirpate his Tez during his upkeep. Liliana and Thrun that I dredge while wastelocking get there while I recur Pulse every turn.

R3 against UR Delver, 2-0:

G1: I blind Therapy a bolt, pop explorer, GSZ for an Ooze buying me enough time to draw into Thragtusk and end it.

-1 Prime Titan -1 Karakas -1 Waste -1 LftL +1 Finks +1 Vapors +1 Darkblast +1 Negate

G2: I play an Explorer, GSZ another, play an Oracle and Wish for Witness, Ooze, Finks, and Thragtusk before laying down a Volrath.

R4 against Death and Taxes, 2-1:

G1: I keep an opener with a single Bayou and 2 Explorers and a Top knowing full-well that I am up against DnT with Leonin Arbiters. I draw into an Udg Sea and 2 Fetches but my opponent double wastes me and lands an Arbiter against my 2 Explorers and my 2 fetches. My opponent starts building up the pressure while I struggle to build my mana base. I eventually die to a Jitte'd Avenger and Karakas/Mangara when I reach my 4th land.

-1 Prime -1 Ooze +1 Darkblast +1 Vapors

G2: I Therapy 3 StP from my opponent's hand and Therapy/Explorer some more on his threats, leaving him with a Jitte and a SoLS. I Pop a Deed and reveal play 2 GSZ, making my opponent scoop.

G3: I open up with a Top and a basic Island. My opponent Enlightened Tutors for a Revoker at the end of his turn, attempting to shut down my Top. I Darkblast it EoT and my opponent sighs. A couple of Explorers later, my opponent has an Arbiter in his hand and an Avenger equiped with SoLS ready to trigger on the next turn. I Top into a Gift grabing Volrath, Liliana, Blood, and Vapors with a Forest, a Swamp, a Bayou open and a LftL in my GY. Considering I had not played a land this turn, the pile was impossible to disrupt in order for the SoLS to connect. I end up playing the Volrath and casting the Blood, bringing back Witness on top at EoT. Soon after my opponent faces a Vapor loop and concedes while I beat with Witness and Thrun.

[Cire_dk]

Gratz on the win. Thanks for the nice report.
How difficult is it to get the gift piles right?

[jbone2016]

The List: (still working on getting duals)
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Eternal Witness
1x Fierce Empath
1x Wood Elves
3x Academy Rector
2x Baneslayer Angel
1x Thragtusk
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x Sun Titan

3x Pernicious Deed
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Faith's Fetters

1x Lililana of the Veil
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant

3x Sensei's Divining Top

1x Eladamri's Call
1x Swords to Plowshares

4x Cabal Therapy
3x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Vindicate
1x Maelstrom Pulse

1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Bayou
2x Overgrown tomb
1x Temple Garden
1x Scrubland
3x Forest
3x Plains
2x Swamp
3x Windswept Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
1x Treetop Village

//SB
1x Carpet of Flowers
1x Extirpate
1x Perish
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Humility
1x Curse of Death's Hold
2x Memoricide
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Faerie Macabre
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Thoughtseize
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Engingeered Plague

The Results (4-4): I can't see to find my notes, so my memory is a little fuzzy.
Round 1: Villalobos, Ernie (Budget Reanimator)
Ernie was a fairly new to legacy so he had some unusual cards for a reanimator deck.
Flayer of the hatebound and Avatar of Discord seems to stand out.
First turn, ritual, then avatar. Discarding a ghoultree and something else.
I end up ramping with explore after chumping, get an angel and elspeth. and jump the angel to win. Game 2: in: Extirpate, Faerie Macabre out: no idea
I ramp out, discard the flayer, extirpate and with sun titan/witness hijinks.
(1-0)
Round 2: Dixon, Kelsey (u/w miracle control stoneblade) Table 1!
He gets down a early stoneforge and gets a batterskull. Then top/counterbalance come out. I land a rector and flashback therapy to get fetters out so I don't die to the now jitted up mystic. He ends up countering a ton of my stuff, including a sun titan. I die to my own arena with a jace on 13. Game 2 is a grind and I can't seem to get any action to get a draw.
(1-1)
Round 3: Donnie Peck (Merfolk)
Game 1: I ramp out early, get thragtusk and recurring nightmare after a board wipe and he scoops. Game 2: Lots of early pressure for him and I can't seem to find a board wipe. Game 3:Gets a trinket mage for relic to shut off my nightmare/tusk hijinks. I end up getting a rector with a call, play it, sac it to tower....and get a plague instead of a deed. I die shortly afterwards. Urgh.
(1-2)
Round 4: David Marker (Bant goodstuff)
Interesting homebrew. Goyf, delver, jace, tops, mishra's factory. Fairly epic game. I have a huge card draw advantage with top and arena. After trading blow with him, he is down to 2...but has a Jace ticking up. I have a witness with stronghold out and getting trying to kill him but witness keeps dying...but getting back a pulse/vindicate. My pulse on Jace gets flusterstormed! (needed one more mana, doh)...He topdecks 3 goyf in a row to not die. I kept pulsing the goyf and the jace (dumb). I zenith for one to get the last point with another explorer. He ultimates jace. I have one card in my library...with an arena...but with a stronghold. Stronghold for witness/vindicate a blocker. Kill for exacties, no cards in library and turn 3 in game 1...Crazy. and lots of misplays by me
(2-2)
Round 5: Mike Mccay. (Merfolk)
Game 1: Lots of early damage and I'm on the back foot chumping and ramping....I deed once with elspeth out. I'm dead on board....and I draw...witness. gets back deed. blow deed for 2. Get thragtusk and ride angel to victory.
Game 2: Get an early carpet and ride the mana to titan/deed lock.
(3-2)
Round 6: Kevin Hunt (Mono-black Pox)
Game 1: I therapy him and see smallpox x2, hymn, pox, sinkhole and I'm like....land destruction...ha! We both rampout and quick and get hellbent. He gets a Lily and a cursed scroll. I get an arena out, then rector for a fetters to shut off lily at 6 or 7. I get a deed to kill the scroll/crucible. Tusk and friends win.
Game 2: He starts beating down with bloodghast, I keep chumping with explorer and rector, getting an arena and then a leyline. Win with angel.
(4-2)
Round 7: Jeff Hoogland (Deadguy Ale)
I've talked to Jeff a bit at different events and we have a good chat before the match.
Game 1: I keep a top, explorer, but no green mana/fetch. I never get going before the mystic/bob/lilana bash me in.
Game 2: I ended ramping a little but 2 hymns wreck my hand.
(4-3)
Round 8: Kyle Stoll (Elves) Another Mpls player.
Game 1: A early therapy revealed elves. Early ramping brought the deed out. And titan brought it back.
Game 2: Quick ramp worked out...except he comboed out with ezuri when I had a deed in hand.
Game 3: I ended up rectoring for a plague...then a curse. He gets a pridemage, then an archdruid. I get a call....and go for...witness for the plague...when I should have gone for rector, sac it(had a tower) for deed and blow the world up. I die next turn instead.
(4-4). All the people I lost to end up in the money. Oh well.

Thoughts:
Maindeck:
Lily was underwhelming. With arena/stronghold she is good but eh. Call was awesome. Usually grabbing a rector or titan. Treetop was lame. Another tower would be better. Kokopuffs didn't do much. Sigarda is probably better. Maybe a thrun instead of the empath then. Swords...eh. I'm thinking about using ghastly demise instead. Killing your own explorer for profit. Bob seems to be the only black creature I'm really scared of.
SB:
Didn't play any combo so a lot of the SB wasn't too used much. Mostly carpet vs blue.

Wow...this is long.

[Qweerios]

It can be really tricky at times as there is always more thinking involved in a pile than you'd expect. It all depends on what you have in your hand/GY/play and what your opponent is capable/incapable of doing. Reactive piles are by far the most difficult but overall it almost always revolves around Loam/Witness + Lands.

[HoneyT]

Full Kansas City report is up! Check it out!

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...h-Place-Report

[Claymore]

I draw a Gifts and grab Witness, Pulse, Loam, and Volrath (I am holding Wasteland and have Tower in play). My opponent Enlightened Tutors for a Tormod's Crypt so I Extirpate his Tez during his upkeep. Liliana and Thrun that I dredge while wastelocking get there while I recur Pulse every turn.

I feel dirty just reading that.

As far as Disciple, I don't see him being of use. He's an interesting engine for sure, but is 4cc and requires being set up with a sacrificial creature in play and a means to abuse him...and our sacrificial creatures generally only have 1-2 power so you're either at zero card advantage or +1 card. If you run a bunch of Finks it might be worth it since you get up to 3 cards, the Finks will persist (maybe), and you've refueled considerably. He leaves you with just a 2/1 body in play. Interesting Nightmare loops could work, but might require even more work because of his sacrifice ability and would eventually come out to be a win-more engine.

Overall I think there are better uses for his slot.

[Arianrhod]

@CRich -- Disciple of Bolas just seems bad for this. The only chunky creatures we have, we aren't going to want to sac, other than Kokusho. Using him to sac an Explorer or a Rector just seems poor. 4 mana for a 1/1 that draws a card and gains a life? Ew.

@Qweerios -- glad you've got something that's working for you. List looks pretty solid. What influenced your decision to keep Liliana in? I know you were talking about cutting here a few pages back. How was Consuming Vapors? I know we tried it like twenty or thirty pages ago, but it was fairly mediocre then. Has the meta improved for it?

@jbone -- sounds like you had pretty good matchups, but I read an awful lot of the word "misplay" in that post. Sad =(

How was the sideboard? It looks like something of a clusterfuck -- a lot of untutorable 1-ofs, only one Carpet of Flowers (one of the white version's strongest cards in general), only one Extirpate, etc.

How was Eladrami's Call? Specifically, would you have been happier to have it as a Diabolic Intent?

Why no Sigarda?

Guessing Wood Elves was terrible. Despite my best efforts, it seems that Wood Elves is only actually good in the red version. Can't really figure out why.

The only issue with Ghastly Demise is that it's reliant on the graveyard, and a lot of decks will be boarding in Crypt/Relic vs you anyway. Swords is still the best at what it does, although it can't sac Explorer. A 2nd Phy Tower will do a world of help there.

Volrath's Stronghold is useless if you're running Nightmare. I'd cut that pretty much immediately, unless there's a lot of like Painter or something like that in your meta, where you need to have the Stronghold.

I'll reiterate for the eleventy-millioneth time that Kokusho isn't supposed to do much, but when he does something, he'll win you games you can't otherwise win. Really surprised he didn't happen in the Bant game...the really uber-long grindy games are where he's usually an allstar.

Seems like overall it did well for you, though =)

@HoneyT -- TUSK.

This is more Qweerios's area (looks a lot like his last G/B list, actually), but I'll try anyway.

How were the two Hymns? Did you want more or less?

Seems like you boarded Wickerbough out an awful lot. Maybe he'd be better in the sideboard?

How was the 1x Liliana?

Assuming availability isn't an issue, why did you select Nic Fit / GB, in specific?

Looking forward to seeing xDavisx in the thread, hopefully. Was he playing the deck in the event, or just looking to build it? If he was playing it, how was he doing/what version was he playing?

Why do you think you have so much trouble with Stoneblade? Something inherent in the matchup, bad luck, something that can be fixed with sideboard, etc?

Grats on your finish =) Nic Fit's been doing really well this month -- if we keep it up the rest of the month we might get back into Decks to Beat. I think that we're pretty well situated in the meta right now, and I also think some of us in the thread have been playing the archetype long enough now that we're actually finally mastering it, so we're able to start fielding better performances in absence of professional pilots.

Good stuff.

[PollePotDK]

@Arianrhod: Don't you ever have problems with fast aggro decks such as Goblins (turn 1 Lackey) or a turn 1 Delver, worst case on the draw?

Thinking of foiling out my Nic Fit (GBw), BUT some cards can't be acquired in foil, right? Because I can't find Explorer in foil. From which serie, did WotC start with foils?

Lastly, is there anything "illegal" tournamentwise, if your deck isn't completely foiled out?

Hope you understand my bad english :-)

/PollePotDK

[bruizar]

Urza's Legacy was the first foil set. Its not illegal as long as there is no pattern in it (for example, therapies non foil, 56 others foil). also, play double sleeve and keep the deck away from temperature changes so the cards dont warp.

[Arianrhod]

@Arianrhod: Don't you ever have problems with fast aggro decks such as Goblins (turn 1 Lackey) or a turn 1 Delver, worst case on the draw?

Thinking of foiling out my Nic Fit (GBw), BUT some cards can't be acquired in foil, right? Because I can't find Explorer in foil. From which serie, did WotC start with foils?

Lastly, is there anything "illegal" tournamentwise, if your deck isn't completely foiled out?

Hope you understand my bad english :-)

/PollePotDK

Nah, your English is fine.

Bruizar pretty much nailed it, but I'll add a few things. I've actually completely foiled my Rector build out at this point (less a few sideboard options / the floater spot that I still haven't narrowed down), and I'm slowly working on upgrading to japfoil.

Basically, I've got the following:

Nonfoil:
Explorers, Towers, duals, basics (I opted for Guru instead of foil), Moat, some sideboard ie Chains, Carpets, etc.

Foil:
Everything else =P

This leaves me with 2/3 of the maindeck foiled, to 1/3 nonfoil. I got deck checked at GP Atlanta, and it cleared just fine.

As far as foil warpage goes, there isn't much you can do about that, sadly. I know both of my Elspeths are especially bad, and my Baneslayers were pretty bad too. Before any major event where there will be deck checks, I lay out the entire deck, flat on a table. Then I see which cards are noticeably more warped than the others, take those cards, and put a lot of heavy books on top of them. This usually flattens them out nicely. I try to do that every few months anyway, just on principle, but sometimes I forget until the warp gets really bad. Just something we have to live with, I fear. Double sleeving helps, but it's not going to solve the problem completely.

As for the fast aggro starts -- it depends on my hand. If I have Explorer/Therapy, I can keep up no problem. If I don't, then I can have some trouble, yeah. The Rector version is also built to be really good at stabilizing, so I can afford to take a few early hits if I have to.