Good result once again! Too bad on the Maverick match, since it's actually very favourable. I was wondering if it's not too much trouble, what is your sideboard plan against the tier 1 decks? I often have trouble figuring out what to take out.
And another question on a situation that came up a while ago. I was playing vs Bant Stoneforge, and I had been controlling the board in the early game and getting down planeswalkers in the late game, but he had already resolved a Batterskull in the meantime. Now the problem was that he had about 9 lands in play so he could return it to his hand and replay it whenever he had to, and I couldnt win through all the life he was gaining. At the time I was running Vindicate so I was waiting until I could vindicate his batterskull and when he returned it to hand I could flashback therapy. Now perhaps I was missing something else I could have done, but how do you deal with that, since you don't run Vindicates?
Ok, some fast sideboard pointers:
RUG-delver: want my perish, my extra thoughtseizes, Humility and the extra jitte I take out Batterskull, some stoneforges, 1 chrome mox as rug will most likely bring in some Ancient Grudge and stoneforges will get burned down before it will be able to put down the batterskull. The remaining stoneforges are just there to find the Jittes. Plan is still clean their hand and the resolve walkers.
GW-Maverick: Humility, perish, jitte, Timely Reinforcement, Elspeth. However after playing against it yesterday, seal of cleansing / Oblivion Ring should be probly be in there as well as active Jitte is pretty much the biggest reason to lose against the deck. With 4 sweepers are the board 2 Perish 2 zealous Persecution after the board. Discard spells are quite weak against the deck and some will be board out for some stronger spells as well a chrome mox, some stoneforges and batterskull. They will bring in some more artifact hate against the stoneforge package so best thing is to lower the impact of thoes cards.
Sneak and show. I bring in all the 2 thoughtseizes, 4 Surgical Extraction, 2 Seal of Cleansing, 1 oblivion Ring, 1 Humility, 1 Elspeth, 1 jitte, Bring out 4 swords to plowshares, 1 batterskull,1 Bitterblossom, 2 stoneforges, 2 sorin, 2 zealous persecution. Have to defeat them through their hand as going for their creatures arent gonna work already lost if 1 of them enters the game.
Storm: Bringing all Surgical Extraction and the extra Thoughtseize, Taking out the swords and persecution
Nothing is ever set in stone. No everyone is having the same sideboard.
Hello guys,
I am new to this deck, but I always wanted to play it. Now I am slowly building it. I wanted to test/run a list with Aether Vial. I know that the token/walker list is really popular atm, but I wanted to ask if my list is also viable. And if yes, what changes could or should be made to improve it. I'm also not too sure about what to include in the sideboard, so it's just a rough idea. Here is the list I intend to run, keep in mind that I haven't been playtesting it yet since I am still missing some cards, especially considering the mana base:
Lands (20):
4 x Marsh Flats
2 x Polluted Delta
4 x Scrubland
2 x Fetid Heath
1 x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 x Swamp
2 x Plains
4 x Wasteland
Creatures (19):
4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Stoneforge Mystic
4 x Tidehollow Sculler
4 x Serra Avenger
3 x Mother of Runes
Stoneforge Toolbox (3):
1 x Batterskull
1 x Umezawa's Jitte
1 x Sword of Light and Shadow
Other Spells (18):
4 x Aether Vial
2 x Thoughtseize
2 x Inquisition of Kozilek
4 x Swords to Plowshares
2 x Liliana of the Veil
4 x Lingering Souls
Possible Sideboard Choices:
- Leyline of the Void or Extirpate
- Ethersworn Canonist or Thalia
- Duress
- Vindicate
- Perish or Deathmark
- Maybe one Manriki-Gusari
What do you think of this approach? Thanks in advance.
Thalia in this deck seems too good to not play. She is pretty good against everything other than Maverick for the most part. She is good vs RUG, Control, combo especially.
Yeah, you are right.. Talking about Mainboard here? If yes, what to cut?
serra avenger doesn't look so hot, even with vial in the deck
Talia seems good with the vial + creatures version, but I don't like it in blossom + souls version. It delays your planeswalkers, hinders your removals and also your discards. That said, I usually play the rock, not deadguy, so maybe I'm wrong.
If you run vials I'd say cut Liliana. Even though she is awesome and can win games on her own, if you have a vial in play you usually want to get your creatures in play in your opponents turn so her +1 ability is horrible, and like the others already said, run 3 Thalia. I also dislike Lingering Souls in that build. Too much of a mana sink for too little value, but I might be wrong, it's been quite some time since the last time I played the Vial build. Also, switch the numbers on Mom and Serra Avenger, and I'd run 3 Phyrexian Revoker. You lose to Pernicious Deed, and it's great to be able to neutralize cards like Top and Jace that give your opponent a big advantage. Put your discard in the sideboard, turn 1 you want to play either Mom or Vial or you just delay yourself a turn which can be crucial.
On a different note, I ran Riszo's list with -1 Elspeth, -1 Bitterblossom and +1 land, +1 Vindicate, and sideboard quite different, in a local 40 man tourney yesterday and went 3-2-1.
Round 1: Stormcombo,
Game 1 I mulled twice, he kept a hand with a couple of cantrips but no business. He didn't find any and I was able to get Confidant going. In the end he had to try Ad Nauseam, but didn't find anything and I won.
Game 2 he held a Therapy in hand when he knew I had a Mindbreak Trap in hand. In my turn I topdecked my own Therapy and made him discard his. After that he couldn't get rid of my Trap and I won.
2-0
(1-0)
Round 2: UBg Landstill
Game 1: Turn 1 we both did nothing. Turn 2 he gets a standstill. After that we draw and play lands for a couple of turns. I waste 2 Factories and when he has 7 cards in hand I crack the Standstill in his turn. I get a couple of creatures in play but he plays Deed, gets rid of everything I have and then has counters for my business and lands Jace.
Game 2: Went a little better, I stick Confidant turn 2 and he draws me into some business. Then he has counters for everything else I try to play and plays Deed, and I lose
0-2
(1-1)
Round 3: RUG Delver
Game 1: Made a horrible mistake somewhere turn 3 where I forget to get my Batterskull in play at the end of my opponents turn. It almost lost me the match but luckily she wasn't able to topdeck Lightning Bolt and so I was able to win it after all
Game 2: Took me just a little too long to stabilize, and when I set up lethal for next turn I was on 2 life. She had no cards in hand but topdecks Bolt to win the game.
Game 3: I kept a pretty bad hand with 2 wasteland, 3 other lands, 1 relic and 1 surgical. I find business the next couple of turns and wasn't going to lose after stabilizing, but there was very little time left in the round and she started to slow play. I tried to get the win with Batterskull and some other good stuff in play, but she started chumping with 1/1 creatures just so long to get the draw which was pretty annoying. Oh well, it happens I guess, and I was still able to go top 8 with 3 more wins.
1-1
(1-1-1)
Round 4: Hypergenesis
Game 1: I discard his entire hand by turn 2 with 2 thoughtseize and 1 Therapy and after that he finally finds a show and tell when I already have more than enough to win through that.
Game 2: I keep a hand with 1 Thoughtseize, 2 Therapies and Lingering Souls hoping to get his entire hand when he starts with Leyline of Sanctity. I don't do anything the first three turns and he show and tells Progenitus, and I don't find Liliana or Humility.
Game 3: I keep a hand with Inquisition, Humility, Confidant and lands. He show and tells, and puts Emrakul in play while I obviously put down Humility. Then I surgical his show and tell and see that he doesn't run any card to destroy my Humility, so I win.
2-1
(2-1-1)
Round 5: MUD
Game 1: He mulls and I start with turn 1/2 discard to get his entire hand. Get sorin to 6 when he has 3 artifacts including the one where you can sac 3 artifacts to find one in your library and put it into play. He finds the one where your life total can't change (I'm sorry I don't know the names of the cards :P) and I almost lose, but I get Jitte to 10 counters just in time, because he also had Blightsteel Colossus. I give his guy -8/-8 and get in for lethal.
Game 2: Keep a hand with discard and 2 path to exile, but he starts with turn 1 chalice and after that I can't do anything noteworthy.
Game 3: Long game but I'm able to mana screw him and at one point I I had Liliana on 6, but he lands a revoker and has Lightning greaves. he takes 3 turns to destroy Liliana when I find Sorin. I have 2 Path to Exile in hand and he plays a second revoker on Sorin. Then he tries to equip his Greaves to the other Revoker. In response I kill it, and when he tries to equip back I kill the other one. Turn after that I topdeck Liliana and win easily.
2-1
(3-1-1)
So win the next one and I'm in top 8
Round 6: Miracles (I dreaded this match up since I've never played against it and it seems very tough to play against)
Game 1: I mull once and have to keep a marginal 6. He starts with top. my turn 1 nothing, After that I start resolving 2 Confidants, but he finds 2 plows in a row. Then he proceeds to counter most of my stuff. After a while I do get a couple of tokens and Stoneforge in play but he finds Terminus and then resolves Jace. I keep trying to fight my way out but it's no use. I scoop when he has 5 cards in hand, Jace and countertop active in play to not waste more time.
Game 2: This game was more exciting. He has a turn 2 top, but I got a Bitterblossom for which he had no answer, Then I resolve Sorin and the game looks to be in my favor, but he finds a Terminus and plays Jace. Then he finds a way to stall my attacks for long enough to protect his Jace and when he gets Entreat the Angels at my end of turn for a lot, he can get me for lethal.
0-2
(3-2-1)
So unfortunately I didn't make top 8 but I do still really like the deck. The only issue I have with the deck is that while it has a lot of favorable match ups, more controllish decks seem to be really tough especially once they resolve Jace. I think I'll add a couple of Needles to the board to counter Top, Jace and Deed, because Miracles seems to be indeed a very tough match and the deck is so much worse when they don't have Top. Do you guys have any other tips to beat these decks besides not to overextend?
Did you get to use your Vindicate at all?
Can you please post your board.
Thank you for your feedback. Following your suggestions I would make these changes:
- 1 Serra Avenger
- 4 Thoughtseize/Inquisition
- 2 Liliana
+ 1 Mom
+ 3 Thalia
+ 3 Revoker
I want to try Souls in the deck before I decide if I want to cut it. Considering running discard in the sideboard: Wouldn't it be the best to run Duress since I'd mainly board it vs combo I think?
My board was:Originally Posted by Rizso
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Disenchant
2x Humility
3x Path to Exile
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Mindbreak Trap
Usually there are no Traps in the board, but I already knew there would be quite some combo and during testing I found that discard + Mindbreak Trap = pretty positive match up, so that's why I included 3. I expected quite some aggro decks, because last time the field was pretty soft and a lot of people ran homebrew decks, so I figured 3 Path to Exile would be fine against random aggro decks. I was wrong on that, there were more controllish decks, but it still came in useful vs RUG Delver. Relic and Surgicals are my usual graveyard hate. I also expected quite some Show and Tell decks so that's why there are 2 Humility and 1 Oblivion Ring.
I was quite happy with the board, had something for just about every matchup. I'll just get a couple of Pithing Needles in there instead of the Traps.
The only card we need Vindicate against is basically Jace, and something like Lingering Souls or Elspeth would be at least as good. The two times I tried to use Vindicate it was countered, and I can see why you removed it entirely. I think I'll follow your example and replace it with Elspeth.
@Sentient6: Duress is fine for the board altough I prefer Thoughtseize to get rid of fatties in decks like Sneaky Show, but I doubt it'll matter that much. Let me know how the deck is working out. I was also wondering how the vial build would do in this meta, but because of the succes I've been having with the Token build I'm hesitant to switch back.
Sure, once I got all the cards I need and got some practice I will take it to some local tournaments and see how it goes. Till then I will have to use my UWr Stoneblade :)
Did go 2-1-1 in weekly legacy. While not being the best score i did get to play against some new decks.
Just gonna write very short about each match
First match UW-Miracle
This one lasts for at least 35+ min of the 40 min round. Battle of the stoneforges. bitterblossom tokens chumps a clique with batterskull equiped so my liliana can stay alive. I draw the wasteland i waste his karakas then force him to sac his ultron clique then i swing with my batterskull. And he scoops then its time like 2 mins later.
1-0
match 2 vs storm with cunning wish for adnaus
I start with seize taking the tutor knowing he got a wish. He play ponder i play bob he goes preordrain into ponder into cunning wish sacing led playing adnaus from the board. I die.
Game 2 I naked cabal therapy saying tutor, seeing 2x led, petal cabal ritaul delta and strand. He top decks infernal tutor and goes off. I respond to his tutor surgical extracting his leds. He resolves adnaus and goes down to 3 into a illgotengains taking tutor, dark ritual dark ritual on the gains and search for tendrils and i die.
0-2 Shit happends
Game 3 Enchantress. I Know his deck is slow really slow so i keep me 3 cabal therapy, 1 wasteland, 1 thoughtseize, liliana, Lingering souls on a the draw. He starts with nonebasic land into a land aura. I draw a none land and waste his land. We both misses our next land dropp.. He draws land i dont. for a very many turns. i scopp as he starts to get angels.
I rip his hand into pieces kills his argothian with liliana while beating with bob and tokens.
He mulls to 3 He starts land go. I go mox removing a black card into thoughtseize taking his only none landcard and play wasteland. Then wasteland his none basic land and play bob. Game over he never gets to play magic.
UW- miracle
First game is a solid 30min or so. Its really back and forth he resolves jace i resolve a elspeth while he manages to keep the elspeth from killing jace i resolve a liliana and ultimates her spliting the piles into 1 jace, 1 polluted delta plains vs 5 island 2 tops. He picks the jace pile He draws an other fetch I put into a play a token He miracles for an angel. I +3/+3 my guy attacking his jace he chumps with his angel i resolve a sorin. He then scopps. Durring this match Waste fetch as i felt the fetchland there was just to powerful to remain as he can filter away with jace. After the match he revealed to me he had setup to be able to play a elspeth and a miracle that where on top durring that time. Forcing him to shuffle them both away.
Game 2 He go island top, I go fetchland geting swamp. He goes counterbalance. I go land chrome mox. He reveals a brainstorm. This is where I think i did wrong Instead of resolving a bitterblossom I had in my hand I desided to resolve a Liliana. My thought at that time was i wanted to ultimated her. Next turn tick her up to 5 he discards brainstorm then play snapcaster and flashbacks that brainstorm. then taking my liliana down to 3. I then resolve a sorin makes a guy and kill his snapcaster with the liliana and he goes eot miracle for 2 angels and attack killing my 2 walkers. I play lingering souls. He resolves stoneforge. I scoop without knowing the time remaining as it was pretty much a hopeless sitaution with skull, 2 angels and stoneforge on the board with top and a counterbalance all i had where a couple of 1/1 spirits. Next game i rip his hand apart but time gets called and its a draw.
My conclusion about uw miracle is: Im not gonna put in any addictional cards in my board for the deck. Why? The deck is just way way to slow. As long as you dont face it match 1 or 2 the chance of facing it goes down alot. The deck just draws to much. The maindeck is already quite powerful against the deck, planeswalkers, lingering souls and bitterblossoms are really strong against the deck. As long as you win the first game. Then its probly going to time short after. I have my 2 seal of cleansings, 1 Oblivion Ring, 4 Surgical, 1 Elspeth, 1 Thoughtseize I can Bring in.
As for the storm decks. As long as they arent going off on t1 or 2 through discard effects the matchups is very much winnable even without traps, canonist. Canonists doesnt do that much really, without mother of runes they will just bounce it then kill you or wish then kill it then kill you.
Deck change was phyrexian Tower changed to an extra swamp going upto 3 swamps. Changing a stoneforge mystic to a thoughtseize. Going down to 3 stoneforges maindeck and up to 3 maindecked thoughtseize with 1 in the board. Board change was a thoughseize into a Torpor Orb. Torpor Orb is for the goblin matchup its neutralizes their most powerful cards, goblin ringleader, matron, seigegang commander, scrapper and marshals. As well it shuts down snapcasters, cliques, stoneforges, topterfoundry with more!
My take on this deck is in a slightly different direction. I really like the power level of Etched Champion and the fact that some B/W confidant builds already run a lot of artifacts makes me want to go in that direction:
4x Thoughtseize
2x Aether Vial
3x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Dark Confidant
4x Ethersworn Canonist
4x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Fiend Hunter
4x Etched Champion
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Cranial Plating
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
4x Scrubland
4x Marsh Flats
4x Vault of Whispers
2x Ancient Den
4x Cavern of Souls
1x Swamp
3x Wasteland
1x Mox Opal
27 artifacts including artifact lands and Mox Opals. Champion + Plating gives the deck a very fast end-game clock. Exact numbers are debatable. Not sure about 4 Revokers and only 3 Bobs/Mystics. You really need an answer for Engineered Explosives though, or it means GG.
The deck is oriented towards Humans/Soldiers, making the Caverns very relevant. Being able to resolve Canonist/Bob through counter magic can win games if the opponent is relying too heavily on Force or Spell Snare. Cavern also makes Champion into an almost invulnerable threat.
There are some other interesting choices, such as the spellbombs. They really help G1 versus the graveyard matchups and Maverick. Debated Jotun Grunt, but spellbomb is an artifact with neutral card advantage.
Not sure about the sideboard totally, but this is what I am thinking:
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Enlightened Tutor
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Wasteland
1x Karakas
Anybody else doing something like this?
I do see where you are going with that build. Stoneforge isnt as importat in that build it could still use an extra dark confidant. Batterskull doesnt really fit into the deck either so could remove skull some stoneforges get more Cranial platings and bobs. But imo the deck feels like a affinity deck without the good blue card.
EE doesnt take your lands but still need the revokers for thoes deeds if they are played. Not having swords to plowshares feels wrong as well or even dispatch as its more heavy on artifacts. If still going that route then its gonna need some more tuning. It should probly run 4 vials as well.
A card Im actually thinking of testing out is Cursed Scroll. This ancient relic synergieses with the Lilianas and chrome mox with them lowering my own handsize. Able to kill active mother of runes, Flibbed delver, Clique, Many of mavericks creatures, pinging walkers, a threat that wont be miracled away or flash creatures cant take down. It also makes you able to use your mana when you get flooded and when you are in topdeck mode. Cursed Scroll used to be Deadguy staple once and might be worth trying out again. The speed of the format is quite slow atm and slow cards like walkers and scroll seem perfect.
Good points Rizso. I never really was sure about Batterskull and always wanted to play more Platings. I like Cursed Scroll a lot too, since this deck sometimes floods, especially on discard-heavy hands. I'm not sure about the Tops - this deck just might be too aggro for them. Perhaps I will try some scrolls. I want to runs Swords to Plowshares/Dispatch but didn't find room. Still think Stoneforge is too good not to play, especially with the ability to fetch and sneak in Plating. (with Stoneforge it is possible to play an uncounterable plating and equip all at instant speed).
I actually built this deck after thinking that Thalia and Bob would be ideal cards to play in Affinity in addition to Canonist (which is one of Affinity's best outs to combo). IMO, Thoughtcast is only good in the heavy-aggro versions of that deck, whereas this B/w Confidant build is more midrange. I like black in Affinity-type builds also because the disruption package helps the deck significantly in unfair matchups.But imo the deck feels like a affinity deck without the good blue card.
Went 3 - 1, won against esper-blade, burn and merfolk but lost to the same maverick player as last time i faced maverick. The maverick deck isnt just a normal he runs captain sisay with legendary package and mained decked phyrexian Revokers.
As for changes to the 75 im thinking of adding more anti maverick cards, the maindeck is pretty strong against most other none-dredge / combo decks.
As for the matchups:
Discard effects are really strong against the deck same with bitterblossom and lingering souls. Not much more is needed. The seal of cleansings, torpor orb, jitte and thoughtseize gets boarded in. What gets boarded out really depends on how the esper deck loooks like.
Burn: not the hardest matchup its all about surviving their first 7 card hand. Discard spells are strong against the deck in the start of the game. Bringing in extra jitte, timely reinforcement and maybe seal of cleansing as they might bring in the anti lifegain enchantment. Planeswalkers do alot against burn especially liliana and sorin.
Merfolk: A strong deck against decks with islands but no islands in the deck and its packed with removal and chumpers from tokens. Not a deck that will change my board change directly from.
Maverick: This deck has as much threats as a deck can be filled with. And most threats arent just normal vanilia creatures but all hatebears and distruptive. The deck isnt hyperfast but it will severly punish lose keeps. I am gonna put more anti maverick cards in the board like +2 cards. And the card im looking atm is the Card Dystopia.
If you're not running Perish, I'd recommend that against Maverick over Dystopia simply because Perish will be completely onesided whereas Dystopia can hurt you as well.
Im gonna run both. Dystopia can kill Garruk / elspeth unlike perish. Also Dystopia does have a upkeep that doesnt have to be paid and the enchantment will be gone if needed to resolve a white permanent.
Added my 4th copy of Thoughseize to the main now and going down to 3 Bitterblossoms.
Cards that gets boarded in alot should probly be maindecked while cards that get boarded out alot should probly not be in the maindeck. Reason to go down in bitterblossoms while the card is really great its not good in numbers and its way harder for most decks to remove then other cards.
Deck with current tuning:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Lingering souls
3 Bitterblossom
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Chrome Mox
3 Swamps
1 Plains
1 Fetid Heath
4 wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta - Has won me a match where I got mana screwed and only played delta into swamp thoughtseize and he thought i was playing storm and he boarded in antistorm cards.
Sideboard
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Humility
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Perish
2 Dystopia
They board is pretty anti maverick atm But really anti storm cards wont do much against them and will hope that the 10 maindecked 1cc discard spells will slow them down enought then able to surgical extract them out of the game. As for dredge its just a bad matchup and even if i had 8+ cards against it would still be a bad matchup. Hope against dredge is cabal therapy exiling bridges, surgical important targets and swording their ichordids, moebas or bloodghasts or stoneforge for skull / jitte, Skull bouncing exiles bridges wich is nice.
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
3 Rishadan Port
4 Scrubland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Aether Vial
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Mangara of Corondor
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Vindicate
2 Nether Void
1 Batterskull
Could someone please post some opinions on this decklist?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote